Trains.com

What to do with Subways in the future?

6957 views
161 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, May 18, 2020 10:34 AM

They've been making an appearance in Michigan, as well.

Of course, Michigan already has that phenomenon known as the "Michigan Left."  That tends to baffle some people...

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Toronto, Canada
  • 2,554 posts
Posted by 54light15 on Monday, May 18, 2020 10:19 AM

There were some in Connecticut when I was a kid. People there called them "rotaries." There's more traffic cricles now outside of medium-sized Canadian cities like Kitchener and Cambridge than there were ten years ago. There's none in and around Toronto but I guess they'll be coming sooner or later. They are very common in France and Belgium but over there people know how to use them. I drove there last summer (the first time I ever drove in Europe) and had no trouble. 

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,492 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 18, 2020 10:17 AM

tree68
 
BaltACD
I believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases.  Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other.  More elsewhere!

 

New England - home of the traffic circle.  

Some know them as "roundabouts."

 
In Boston they are known as "rotaries".
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Monday, May 18, 2020 7:44 AM

BaltACD
I believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases.  Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other.  More elsewhere!

New England - home of the traffic circle.  

Some know them as "roundabouts."

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:02 PM

Semper Vaporo-- There was an Issac Asimov short story about beings from another planet that landed on earth. One day they unearthed a STOP sign, the only thing left of civilization by a quirk of fate. The tale was about all the interpretations and meanings of the sign. Their conclusions made perfect sense but not even close to what it was. Hilarious. 

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,000 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, May 17, 2020 9:36 PM

Flintlock76
 
zugmann
We have a couple.  They actually work good if morons would stop stopping in them when not needed.  

Unfortunately today's drivers aren't trained on how to use them.  Well, maybe today's high school kids learn about them in Drivers Ed, but we sure didn't 50 years ago.  My father, who grew up in the 40's had to show me what a traffic circle was all about.  Depending on the part of the country they used to be pretty common from the 20's through the 40's, and some lasted in New Jersey well into the 70's.  There MAY still be some in the less-developed parts of the state but I'm not sure about that. 

I believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases.  Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other.  More elsewhere!

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Sunday, May 17, 2020 9:11 PM

 

I think they should just fill the subways with concrete... that way, in a thousand years it'll drive the archeologists nuts trying to figure out what kind of religious sect built an underground web of interconnecting 16 ft. diameter concrete filaments.

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Georgia USA SW of Atlanta
  • 11,856 posts
Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, May 17, 2020 8:34 PM

Back  in the day had to spend many a day in BOS . There were circles all over and got to observe how the natives handled them.  Came in good stead for many years.   Now we have some around here and it gives a chuckle to watch various wrong ways to transit the circles.  And yes wrong way is one incident that I've observed. 

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,612 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, May 17, 2020 7:11 PM

zugmann
We have a couple.  They actually work good if morons would stop stopping in them when not needed. 

Unfortunately today's drivers aren't trained on how to use them.  Well, maybe today's high school kids learn about them in Drivers Ed, but we sure didn't 50 years ago.  My father, who grew up in the 40's had to show me what a traffic circle was all about.  Depending on the part of the country they used to be pretty common from the 20's through the 40's, and some lasted in New Jersey well into the 70's.  There MAY still be some in the less-developed parts of the state but I'm not sure about that. 

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, May 17, 2020 6:27 PM

Finished. Done for. Better fiqure out what's next . Not going to happen even if declared 'all clear'.  It will be "I might be healthy, but you can't trust that, and you might be healthy, but I can't trust that."

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:27 PM

York1

Paul wrote, "Maybe sometime I'll post a thread about grade crossings running through traffic circles - now called 'roundabouts' to differentiate them. "

While not a grade crossing, the picture below is a streetcar line that is in New Orleans at Lee Circle (now without Robert E. Lee's statue!).

Even though the streetcars move fairly slowly, there are still mixups.

I realize this picture doesn't clearly show the tracks.

Streetcars going upriver enter the circle at the top from St. Charles.  They travel around and exit at the bottom of the circle.

Streetcars going the other direction enter the circle from the bottom.  They travel ¾ of the way around the circle and exit on Howard Ave.

The circle is the split where traffic going upriver is on a two-way street, where after leaving the circle downriver traffic is divided onto one-way streets.

Many tourists who drive St. Charles Ave. get confused when streetcars are running through the circle.  I'm confused trying to describe it!

 

 

York 1, I'm glad I never had occasion to drive around Lee Circle. I had enough problems in negotiating circles in Wshington, D.C. (I understand those were designed as locations for mounting cannon when invaders approached the city.) I did not mind at all walking there or riding the St.Charles line.

Johnny

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,446 posts
Posted by York1 on Saturday, May 9, 2020 4:59 PM

Paul wrote, "Maybe sometime I'll post a thread about grade crossings running through traffic circles - now called 'roundabouts' to differentiate them. "

While not a grade crossing, the picture below is a streetcar line that is in New Orleans at Lee Circle (now without Robert E. Lee's statue!).

Even though the streetcars move fairly slowly, there are still mixups.

I realize this picture doesn't clearly show the tracks.

Streetcars going upriver enter the circle at the top from St. Charles.  They travel around and exit at the bottom of the circle.

Streetcars going the other direction enter the circle from the bottom.  They travel ¾ of the way around the circle and exit on Howard Ave.

The circle is the split where traffic going upriver is on a two-way street, where after leaving the circle downriver traffic is divided onto one-way streets.

Many tourists who drive St. Charles Ave. get confused when streetcars are running through the circle.  I'm confused trying to describe it!

 

York1 John       

I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer?  He said, "No, but it will seem longer."

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Saturday, May 9, 2020 4:22 PM

zugmann
tree68
Further clarification:  Social planners.  Future tyrants.  Much easier to control people if they're all in one place...

[typos fixed 5/20/2020] Don't forget drug stores, banks, and fast-food joints.  Around here all that - and especially warehouses for the on-line mechandising - uses up top-grade farmland at the rate of about 2 square miles per year.  So where will the food come from if that continues?  
"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,531 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:54 PM

Euclid
I have a book called Cities Without Suburbs by David Rusk.  It makes clear the war between being allowed to live in suburbs versus living in a modern city of New Urbanism where eveything has to be just so.  That is where you go to find planning. 

Hey, if it's in a book.  

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:35 PM

charlie hebdo
Your paranoia already nailed you!

Just repeating what I've read in the past.  And if the current batch of petit tyrants doesn't scare you, it should.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,159 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:30 PM

I have a book called Cities Without Suburbs by David Rusk.  It makes clear the war between being allowed to live in suburbs versus living in a modern city of New Urbanism where eveything has to be just so.  That is where you go to find planning. 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,564 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:23 PM

tree68

 

 
zugmann
Some urban planners do - hence their name.

 

Further clarification:  Social planners.  Future tyrants.  Much easier to control people if they're all in one place...

If I go any further into it, this will become a political discussion.

 

Your paranoia already nailed you!

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,531 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:22 PM

tree68
Further clarification:  Social planners.  Future tyrants.  Much easier to control people if they're all in one place...

But you have to be careful with the other side of the coin. People move out to the country, next thing you know you have housing developments, traffic circles, and strip malls with cell phone stores and gym franchises. 

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,531 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:19 PM

Euclid
But too much planning will give you traffic circles. 

We have a couple.  They actually work good if morons would stop stopping in them when not needed. 

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:15 PM

zugmann
Some urban planners do - hence their name.

Further clarification:  Social planners.  Future tyrants.  Much easier to control people if they're all in one place...

If I go any further into it, this will become a political discussion.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,159 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:08 PM

zugmann
I just don't like when people demean "planners".  I live in an area that would have benefitted from much more planning that it received.  Unfortunately, planning is often ignored, and it's why I have to drive through 45 useless traffic lights that shouldn't be there. 
 

But too much planning will give you traffic circles. 

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,159 posts
Posted by Euclid on Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:05 PM

I do think there will be a rebound from this disaster that will find people thinking about doing with less, saving their money, and living out in the country.  Vacations and travel will decline.  Home based businesses will surge.  There will be unbelievable fallout from this miserable episode.  What we have been hit with is much larger than many people can grasp. 

I heard a statistic today that we have increased the U.S. money supply in circulation by a factor of three times.  The source said that this will cause bigtime inflation, but it will be a couple years out.  In the meantime, the value of real estate will plunge, leading to massive defaults and repossession of property.  So now is the time to plan your future.  As Tom Petty once sang:  "The future is wide open."  

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,531 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:53 PM

tree68
The point of my comment was not the people who want to live in relative isolation - it was the "planners" who would prefer we all live in cities.  

Some urban planners do - hence their name.  But regional planning is a thing, too. Just doesn't get much attention as its sibling. 

 I just don't like when people demean "planners".  I live in an area that would have benefitted from much more planning that it received.  Unfortunately, planning is often ignored, and it's why I have to drive through 45 useless traffic lights that shouldn't be there. 

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:41 PM

zugmann
A lot of people love the idea of being isolated,...

I'm about a quarter mile from a small convenience store, but 7 miles from the nearest grocery store of any size, and 15 miles from the nearest small city.  

While I was sitting in my back yard at oh-dark-thirty watching for meteors last week, all I could hear was the falls on the nearby creek and the occasional (very occasional) car on the state highway.  Light pollution was near zero - the moon being the biggest problem.

And that's how it is with this entire area - small hamlets and villages of 500-700 people, spread out.  If I need something, I can get it.

The point of my comment was not the people who want to live in relative isolation - it was the "planners" who would prefer we all live in cities.  

 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,531 posts
Posted by zugmann on Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:04 PM

tree68
It's been said that that is some people's goal...

A lot of people love the idea of being isolated, but the rallies with people complaining that they can't go get their nails done, go to starbucks every day, or wonder target for no reason on a Friday night lead me to belive that it is just the idea they love.  Not the reality. Most people are lost if they aren't constantly entertained or able to get their instant gratifications. 

  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Saturday, May 9, 2020 12:00 AM

The ideal place to live is a population 15,000-30,000. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 24,889 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, May 8, 2020 11:38 PM

MidlandMike
The world is very urbanized, and getting more so. 

It's been said that that is some people's goal...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • 6,418 posts
Posted by MidlandMike on Friday, May 8, 2020 8:10 PM

The world is very urbanized, and getting more so.  Most people don't have a choice to spread out.

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Friday, May 8, 2020 12:07 AM

After this experience with social distancing people will want more space. Also more safety and security.

From the Financial Post Jack Mintz 

Many businesses will have to rethink operations that until this March crowded people into airplanes, restaurants and bars, and offices. Trying to boost density has been the goal of much recent urban policy. Not any more! Rather than take public transit, many people will prefer driving alone to work. Living in an unattached single home will trump a densely crowded condo development. Travel for domestic vacations may feel safer than travel to a far away destination. People likely will be willing to pay a premium for space if it means more health protection at gyms, grocery stores and entertainment facilities.

 

Nothing 'doom and gloom' about any of that. My kids can come visit me for a change, be good for them to see the country instead of their usual Caribbean and Mexican holidays.  I'm not flying commercial any more, period. Not interested in a cruise either. Northern Saskatchewan is one mighty big piece of pristine real estate "Big Lan, Few Pipple" . Lots of Exploration to do. Rocks to hammer, boating, fishing... enough! 

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • 20,034 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 6, 2020 10:08 AM

I throughly agree with that also, but the two posts are not incompatible.

During the period of the virus infection, I live as normal a life as possible, but also are careful to oberrve all the rules that the Government places in response to the recmmendations of the overall medical profession.

During the severest lockdown period, I did not leave the Yeshiva, and prepared by having emergency supplies at the Yeshiva, where the small office became my Kosher-for-Passover bedroom and dining room.  The Seder was with a couple who said I was the third member of their family, at their apartment on the Yeshiva campus, for the entire duration of the threat.

Some of the young single people have returned to the campus.  But they are the ones who are delivering food to aged quarentened.  So now the office as well my main studying location is unavailable to me and the on-campus rabbi, because we are elderly and thus more prone to pick-something the youngsters got from their clients.  And the couple who are my adopted family also exclude themselves from that area.

As soon as the strictest lockdown was ended, I returned to spending weekday nights at my apartment, but as an elderly person, commute with the same taxi driver every day..

What I really meant was that once we have a real all-clear, and I am confident we will, I'll live a normal life again, not a life of fear.  Including use of Jerusalem Light Rail, which on occasion is just as crowded as the Lexington Avenue 4 and 5 Exoresses during rush hour.

 

o

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy