charlie hebdoI can understand your attitude as a witness, though you would have been better off to have processed your feelings more productively, as I have done in helping several folks like you to do. I fail to see why a desk jockey has the same attitude just because he was inconvenienced by extra paperwork.
I fail to see why a desk jockey has the same attitude just because he was inconvenienced by extra paperwork.
My 10 years on the ground - working to clean up the 'messes' of these incident reinforced the senselessness of these Darwininan action. While I ran a desk for 30 years I got covered in blood for 10 too.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I can understand Charlie's point, but I can also more than understand Balt's, Zardoz's, and tree68's points as well.
It's the same anger any one of us would feel if a "Smartphone Zombie" walked out between two parked cars directly in the path of the one we were driving and there was absolutely nothing we could do to prevent the strike.
Yes, it wouldn't be our fault. Yes, the "Zombie" paid for their foolishness with their life. But still...
charlie hebdoI can understand your attitude as a witness, though you would have been better off to have processed your feelings more productively, as I have done in helping several folks like you to do.
When people challenge your assertion that they are in the wrong, you tend to give up caring about them. I've had that happen several times.
Taking part in activities like Operation Lifesaver, "If you see tracks," etc can help educate the public, and that's a good thing and might help some folks deal with the trauma.
But there is always going to be a subset who doesn't think any of that applies to them. It's hard to feel sorry for them. They were warned.
I tend to deal with such incidents by realizing that 1. I didn't cause it, and 2, in most cases, the casualty made decisions that did cause it.
What tends to make me angry is the collateral damage. The family of four who dies because a tipsy driver decided he was fine to drive. The youngster who died in the back seat of a compact pick-up after his friend wrapped it around a pole six feet off the ground, and left the truck burning while he walked a mile and a half home. We found his teeth.
It's one thing to say that it's insensitive to invoke Darwin, it's another completely to have had to deal with the aftermath of those candidates actions.
And PTSD is a very real thing. More than a few crew members would love to purge from their memory the sight of terrified faces looking at the oncoming train through their car windows.
This method of dealing with such incidents is not limited to railroading - fire, EMS, and police all have their versions.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
charlie hebdoI can understand your attitude as a witness, though you would have been better off to have processed your feelings more productively
Of course, it was later in the evening, as the eyes closed for sleep, when the images started to flash back, becoming the dominant thought, as the trauma of the event manifests over and over and over......
Lithonia Operator A lot of kids shoot each others' senior portraits. I don't think we can assume that a professional photographer involved. Although, for sure some pros (very few, I think) would do this; stupidity is not exclusive to any one group.
A lot of kids shoot each others' senior portraits. I don't think we can assume that a professional photographer involved. Although, for sure some pros (very few, I think) would do this; stupidity is not exclusive to any one group.
The area around the Amtrak station and the former CB&Q station was a favorite for local photographers to use as a backdrop for pictures. I assume, from the attire of the various subjects being photographed, that they were local professional photographers doing the picture taking.
One time there was large group of toddlers dressed in formal wear. There were a few parents/adults in 'attendence' of them. It appeared that they were being photographed, singularly or in small groups, for advertising photos or talent agency portfolios, etc. The adults were only focused on the ones being photographed. The rest were wandering around, on and near the two BNSF tracks that go by the depot. Our tracks are close, but the kids weren't on our tracks. We notified our dispatcher to call the BNSF.
Today, the old Burlington station has been renovated and home to one of Omaha's TV stations. The area is better fenced off than it was and I haven't seen the photographers in the area since the renovation.
Jeff
Flintlock76 Heartbreaking article Euclid linked. Heartbreaking for all concerned. Why is it when a young woman dies it's like a piece of the universe dies? (Much less three of them.) Or is it just me that feels that way?
Heartbreaking article Euclid linked. Heartbreaking for all concerned.
Why is it when a young woman dies it's like a piece of the universe dies? (Much less three of them.) Or is it just me that feels that way?
I feel the same way about seeing them filled with joy in their last photo, which ironically captures the image of the aproaching train behind them that changed everything for them and the train crew. They were standing on one track of a double track with a train passing in front of them on the other track. Apparently, the sound of the train passing a couple yards away in front of them drowned out the sound of the other train approaching off to the side of them.
Everybody makes mistakes. Sometimes they pay with their life. Invoking Darwin has no effect except for the effect on the person doing the invoking.
EuclidInvoking Darwin has no effect except for the effect on the person doing the invoking.
Methinks you underestimate the power of that effect on the people doing the invoking, especially if they were directly involved.
And maybe, just maybe, someone reading such an invocation will think twice before committing an act that would qualify them as such.
I highly recommend that anyone who takes offense with Darwin references arrange a ride-along with their local ambulance service, especially in the evening.
zardoz charlie hebdo I can understand your attitude as a witness, though you would have been better off to have processed your feelings more productively Not sure if this was meant for me. But back in the day, if your train smooshed someone, you just cleaned yourself off, and went back to work--no grief counsellors, no time off for processing of the emotions, nothing. Just get back up the ladder and be on your way. It was just part of the job. Of course, it was later in the evening, as the eyes closed for sleep, when the images started to flash back, becoming the dominant thought, as the trauma of the event manifests over and over and over......
charlie hebdo I can understand your attitude as a witness, though you would have been better off to have processed your feelings more productively
Not sure if this was meant for me. But back in the day, if your train smooshed someone, you just cleaned yourself off, and went back to work--no grief counsellors, no time off for processing of the emotions, nothing. Just get back up the ladder and be on your way. It was just part of the job.
Not having any serious therapy available for engineers involved in these accidents is yet another example of corporate greed. Serious PTSD leads to a lot of suicides.
Those folks who choose to use pejorative terms as some sort of method to distance yourselves from pain, consider the families of the dead. Would you congratulate them in person for their (son, daughter, spouse) winning the award?
tree68 Euclid Invoking Darwin has no effect except for the effect on the person doing the invoking. Methinks you underestimate the power of that effect on the people doing the invoking, especially if they were directly involved. And maybe, just maybe, someone reading such an invocation will think twice before committing an act that would qualify them as such. I highly recommend that anyone who takes offense with Darwin references arrange a ride-along with their local ambulance service, especially in the evening.
Euclid Invoking Darwin has no effect except for the effect on the person doing the invoking.
Oh, I am not saying I am offended by people invoking Darwin. It is their call and does not hurt me. The only one that it can affect is the person doing the invoking. I see it as revenge against the dead victim. I understand the sense of grief that accompanies the witnessing of a fatal mishap.
tree68I highly recommend that anyone who takes offense with Darwin references arrange a ride-along with their local ambulance service, especially in the evening.
I once worked an ER on 3rd shift. And your sort of attitude would not be welcome.
charlie hebdo zardoz charlie hebdo I can understand your attitude as a witness, though you would have been better off to have processed your feelings more productively Not sure if this was meant for me. But back in the day, if your train smooshed someone, you just cleaned yourself off, and went back to work--no grief counsellors, no time off for processing of the emotions, nothing. Just get back up the ladder and be on your way. It was just part of the job. Of course, it was later in the evening, as the eyes closed for sleep, when the images started to flash back, becoming the dominant thought, as the trauma of the event manifests over and over and over...... Not having any serious therapy available for engineers involved in these accidents is yet another example of corporate greed. Serious PTSD leads to a lot of suicides. Those folks who choose to use pejorative terms as some sort of method to distance yourselves from pain, consider the families of the dead. Would you congratulate them in person for their (son, daughter, spouse) winning the award?
At least on my former carrier T&E employees involved in what were termed 'Critical Incidents' were permitted to call relief on the spot without question and they were then put in touch with appropriate counseling personnel. They were also alloted 3 days off - with pay. I have no idea if that was enough grief support for the individuals involved.
There is a big difference between official and or corporate communications about such incidents - and what a individuals own personal feelings are about the situation. Even the worst tyrants in the world have mourners show up at their funerals - do the mourners show because of love or fear - only they know.
Euclid I see it as revenge against the dead victim.
It's not revenge - if anything, it's a coping mechanism, an acknowledgement that the end result was beyond the control of the person who must cope with the senseless act.
Very few people outside of fire and EMS would understand the dark humor that goes on within those fields.
And really, invoking Darwin is just shorthand for saying that a person's [insert adjective here] actions were the direct cause of their demise.
I understand if you don't get it.
" Some of us that have had to pull body parts from under their locomotive, getting to see and smell things that we'd prefer to not have experienced,"
Why pray tell would you be removing body parts from under your locomotive?
BaltACDMy 10 years on the ground - working to clean up the 'messes' of these incident reinforced the senselessness of these Darwininan action. While I ran a desk for 30 years I got covered in blood for 10 too.
"Maybe writing up 2 or 3 train vs. car or trespasser incidents a month for 30 years has made me a little crusty for the continued happenings of these senseless incidents".
???
tree68 Euclid I see it as revenge against the dead victim. It's not revenge - if anything, it's a coping mechanism, an acknowledgement that the end result was beyond the control of the person who must cope with the senseless act. Very few people outside of fire and EMS would understand the dark humor that goes on within those fields. And really, invoking Darwin is just shorthand for saying that a person's [insert adjective here] actions were the direct cause of their demise. I understand if you don't get it.
Oh I get it fine. A lot of people die in a way that is directly caused by their own action. Do you think their loved ones cope by invoking the Darwin award? The Darwin award is so much more than saying that a person died because of their own actions. It is saying that the person died because they were stupid and their death is a case of the Darwin principle in which nature weeds out the stupid. Therefore, we are all better off in a society that has been purified to some extent because one more stupid person is gone. It is dancing on the grave in celebration of a person's deadly mistake.
Euclid It is dancing on the grave in celebration of a person's deadly mistake.
I agree wholeheartedly.
243129 Euclid It is dancing on the grave in celebration of a person's deadly mistake. I agree wholeheartedly.
Better than stealing grave markers
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/american-legion-grave-markers-stolen-rosebank-cemetery-cecil-county/29701757
It is not dancing on the grave - as the song several posts above this one state - there are so many DUMB ways to die. Those who die a DUMB death leave their survivors in termoil - wanting to blame someone, anyone but the one that died the DUMB death.
BaltACD 243129 Euclid It is dancing on the grave in celebration of a person's deadly mistake. I agree wholeheartedly. Better than stealing grave markers https://www.wbaltv.com/article/american-legion-grave-markers-stolen-rosebank-cemetery-cecil-county/29701757 It is not dancing on the grave - as the song several posts above this one state - there are so many DUMB ways to die. Those who die a DUMB death leave their survivors in termoil - wanting to blame someone, anyone but the one that died the DUMB death.
What is DUMB is to feel that it is so important to blame someone for making a fatal mistake. They probably died realizing they made the mistake. Do you really think they need some perfect person hopping on their back?
Euclid BaltACD 243129 Euclid It is dancing on the grave in celebration of a person's deadly mistake. I agree wholeheartedly. Better than stealing grave markers https://www.wbaltv.com/article/american-legion-grave-markers-stolen-rosebank-cemetery-cecil-county/29701757 It is not dancing on the grave - as the song several posts above this one state - there are so many DUMB ways to die. Those who die a DUMB death leave their survivors in termoil - wanting to blame someone, anyone but the one that died the DUMB death. What is DUMB is to feel that it is so important to blame someone for making a fatal mistake. They probably died realizing they made the mistake. Do you really think they need some perfect person hopping on the back?
What is DUMB is to feel that it is so important to blame someone for making a fatal mistake. They probably died realizing they made the mistake. Do you really think they need some perfect person hopping on the back?
Dumb is Dumb - no matter who does it - some survive their moment of mental weakness, some don't. Those that don't are then made into objects of 'what not to do' in the hopes that it will educate the rest of mankind. The living learn from the mistakes that claimed those who are no longer living.
Locally we have Police Detective that 'died with his service revolver underneath his body' in an alley that survaillance video shows he was the only one to enter (or exit) from the time he entered until a gunshot was recorded. Oh, this happened one day BEFORE he was scheduled to testify to a Federal Grand Jury on corruption that was taking place inside the unit he was a member of.
Family doesn't believe it was suicide - as has been reported by two 'outside' independent investigations. Death is harder for the survivors than it is for the deceased.
243129 " Some of us that have had to pull body parts from under their locomotive, getting to see and smell things that we'd prefer to not have experienced," Why pray tell would you be removing body parts from under your locomotive?
Ulrich A big and usually deadly assumption people make is that they'll hear a train coming from miles away.
A big and usually deadly assumption people make is that they'll hear a train coming from miles away.
Yeah. It is amazing how "quiet" an approaching train can be. Throw in other noises, or the fact that you are engaged with a friend that is taking your picture, and you have the script for another train accident.
BaltACD Those who die a DUMB death leave their survivors in termoil - wanting to blame someone, anyone but the one that died the DUMB death.
So you take it upon yourself to go on social media and 'straighten out' the family by assigning blame to the victim.
To quote Joseph Welch here is apropos;
"Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
zardozso in the cause of getting the train moving, somebody had to go under and pull all the fragments out from underneath the train.
So are you telling me that you went underneath the cab car and removed body parts for the coroner? There was no emergency personnel, i.e. police or fire department on scene?
243129 BaltACD Those who die a DUMB death leave their survivors in termoil - wanting to blame someone, anyone but the one that died the DUMB death. So you take it upon yourself to go on social media and 'straighten out' the family by assigning blame to the victim. To quote Joseph Welch here is apropos; "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
+1
And the answer is obvious.
243129 zardoz so in the cause of getting the train moving, somebody had to go under and pull all the fragments out from underneath the train. So are you telling me that you went underneath the cab car and removed body parts for the coroner? There was no emergency personnel, i.e. police or fire department on scene?
zardoz so in the cause of getting the train moving, somebody had to go under and pull all the fragments out from underneath the train.
I had other incidents over the years, but this one was the most disgusting. But this wasn't a Darwin candidate; it was just a just-dumped-by-his-girlfriend teenager, who had a note in his pocket detailing his 'reasoning' for committing suicide.
zardozYeah, they wouldn't do it.
" they wouldn't do it" ???? That is their job!
I find it hard to believe that emergency personnel on the scene allowed or stood by while you crawled under your train to retrieve body parts for the coroner so he could have a "complete body". Really?
kenny dorham Ulrich A big and usually deadly assumption people make is that they'll hear a train coming from miles away. Yeah. It is amazing how "quiet" an approaching train can be. Throw in other noises, or the fact that you are engaged with a friend that is taking your picture, and you have the script for another train accident.
It's not just how quiet an approaching train can be. Anyone besides me ever notice the optical illusion, for lack of a better term, of how the headlight of an approaching train just seems to hang there, and hang there, and hang there, and the next thing you know it's right on top of you and zipping past?
Which is why the few times I'm trackside I always warn others to "Watch out! It's coming a lot faster than you think it is!"
Oh, and everyone, give Zardoz a little credit. If he says he had to crawl under the train to remove the body parts, I believe him. Who makes up stuff like that?
243129I find it hard to believe that emergency personnel on the scene allowed or stood by while you crawled under your train to retrieve body parts for the coroner so he could have a "complete body". Really?
Our medical examiner is a little old guy I wouldn't want crawling around under the train... And by that time, the first responders have probably gone home - body recovery isn't their job.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.