mudchicken BaltACD Shadow the Cats owner Balt right now even the big boys are starting to scream at the shippers over lost time. Why they can not keep enough bodies in the seats to maintain their deliveries that they have scheduled already. Hell our insurance industry is screaming at the Federal government over the ELD and HOS dibacles. Since ELD's were mandated there hasn't been the drop in accidents that the FMCSA swore there would be in OTR truck accidents. NOPE in the first year since ELD's have been forced down our throats OTR accidents that the cause is suspected of being Fatigue as the primary cause jumped 40% in the industry. Drivers are pushing harder to make up for lost time and not getting the rest they need due to lack of parking in the areas where their clocks are running out. Yet the ELD was supposed to save lives. It's costing more lives. All I know - is when I travel the Interstates at night - it is difficult to find a spot to park my pick-up and race car trailer for all the OTR trucks that are tied down for HOS rest. You haven't noticed the digital signs on the interstates for how many truck spaces available at the rest areas and former rest areas now known as "parking areas"....Wating for reservations and maitre d's for the 18 wheelers soon.
BaltACD Shadow the Cats owner Balt right now even the big boys are starting to scream at the shippers over lost time. Why they can not keep enough bodies in the seats to maintain their deliveries that they have scheduled already. Hell our insurance industry is screaming at the Federal government over the ELD and HOS dibacles. Since ELD's were mandated there hasn't been the drop in accidents that the FMCSA swore there would be in OTR truck accidents. NOPE in the first year since ELD's have been forced down our throats OTR accidents that the cause is suspected of being Fatigue as the primary cause jumped 40% in the industry. Drivers are pushing harder to make up for lost time and not getting the rest they need due to lack of parking in the areas where their clocks are running out. Yet the ELD was supposed to save lives. It's costing more lives. All I know - is when I travel the Interstates at night - it is difficult to find a spot to park my pick-up and race car trailer for all the OTR trucks that are tied down for HOS rest.
Shadow the Cats owner Balt right now even the big boys are starting to scream at the shippers over lost time. Why they can not keep enough bodies in the seats to maintain their deliveries that they have scheduled already. Hell our insurance industry is screaming at the Federal government over the ELD and HOS dibacles. Since ELD's were mandated there hasn't been the drop in accidents that the FMCSA swore there would be in OTR truck accidents. NOPE in the first year since ELD's have been forced down our throats OTR accidents that the cause is suspected of being Fatigue as the primary cause jumped 40% in the industry. Drivers are pushing harder to make up for lost time and not getting the rest they need due to lack of parking in the areas where their clocks are running out. Yet the ELD was supposed to save lives. It's costing more lives.
All I know - is when I travel the Interstates at night - it is difficult to find a spot to park my pick-up and race car trailer for all the OTR trucks that are tied down for HOS rest.
You haven't noticed the digital signs on the interstates for how many truck spaces available at the rest areas and former rest areas now known as "parking areas"....Wating for reservations and maitre d's for the 18 wheelers soon.
Well the reserved parking is here at some of the truckstop chain places. We will pay for them all the freaking time. Why so my kids on the road are not forced to park on the shoulders of off ramps and on ramps. We haul some of the more nasty crap and can't risk having a truck hit in the rear end while a driver tries to sleep at night on the ramp. My biggest worry when my drivers are out on the road is a rear end collision while they are trying to sleep that kills someone that hit them.
We do have D/H operations at our largest shippers and recievers even with our tanker operations. The trouble is the capital required to do that. A new van is around 35K each with our specs. A new dry bulk tanker your in the 80-90K range. A new liquid tanker can approach 100K why so much. 100 percent Stainless steel in the barrel is not cheap to do. Then if your wanting extras it adds up in a hurry.
Balt, I haven't done much driving lately, but I remember seeing what you were talking about. Sometimes the entrance and exit ramps for the rest areas even had their shoulders lined with trucks. About ten years ago, Louisiana started closing a lot of rest areas. They said they weren't responsible for providing parking spaces for trucks. I don't know what the trucks do now.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
The 'parking space' signs exist in Florida. Haven't seen them on I95 in Georgia, North and South Carolina or Virginia.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Why not go back to PT--Precision Transportaion?
Johnny
EuclidI agree that a definition of PSR is needed.
Potential Service Reduction
Performance Suffering Radically
Practicing Silly Reforms
Practically Slavery Railroading
Preposterous Senseless Reckless
Paralyzingly Stupid Railroading
Perfunctory Shortsighted Railroaders
Preposterous Senseless Reforms
Profit Superscedes Rationality
Pathetic Self-serving Retards
Preposterous Shortsighted Ruinous
Proposterous Silly Ridiculous
Practicing Stupid Ridiculousness
tree68 samfp1943 My feeling is that Shipper Loading, and Consignee Unloading, will always be problematic fo the Trucking Industry. Maybe, not so much with the Railroads ? I would opine that the big difference between the two is that in most cases the truckers stay and wait for the load/unload while rail crews simply drop/pick up the car and keep going. The customer can keep the car for just as long as they are will to pay the requisite charges.
samfp1943 My feeling is that Shipper Loading, and Consignee Unloading, will always be problematic fo the Trucking Industry. Maybe, not so much with the Railroads ?
samfp1943My feeling is that Shipper Loading, and Consignee Unloading, will always be problematic fo the Trucking Industry. Maybe, not so much with the Railroads ?
I would opine that the big difference between the two is that in most cases the truckers stay and wait for the load/unload while rail crews simply drop/pick up the car and keep going. The customer can keep the car for just as long as they are will to pay the requisite charges.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I was recently going through a shoebox I have full of old RR correspondance from one of the railroad stations in town. Mostly general sup't notices and the like, from lates 30s into the 1950s. Even back then they were complaining about reducing OT and equipment utilization.
They can call it PSR, but it's the same dance that has been going on forever.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
samfp1943 BaltACD Shadow the Cats owner All I know - is when I travel the Interstates at night - it is difficult to find a spot to park my pick-up and race car trailer for all the OTR trucks that are tied down for HOS rest. Parking for OTR units [and other trucks] has been a growing problem for years, and very little signs that it was going to get any better. Small rest areas on Interstates definitely, have been a big issue! Virginia Hy-Po's used to run through the Rest Areas regularly, checking Big Rig at the parking areas, and mark trailer wheels with a chalk stick; come back and write tickets for drivers whom they perceived had been there too long(?). Enforcement of Rest Area rules seemed to depend on individual jurisdictions, and local practices. East Coast areas were definitely, more heavily watched. Trucks Stop lots would fill up early, and the 'later arrivals' there would snarl the traffic flows, and access in many T/S parking lots. With the poorer parkig choices for stopping places becoming, more and more dangerous for drivers who 'had' to stop. The more recent changes in HOS rules, more than likely; have seriously exacerbated a lack choice of options for those drivers; who found themselves with fewer options to comply, with HOS regulations (?) My feeling is that Shipper Loading, and Consignee Unloading, will always be problematic fo the Trucking Industry. Maybe, not so much with the Railroads ? Until, the Truckers get relief and get some legislative backing; The load/Unload will be out of their control...Shipper's and Receiver's seem to be able to laugh off the threats of demurrage charges by trucking companies?
BaltACD Shadow the Cats owner All I know - is when I travel the Interstates at night - it is difficult to find a spot to park my pick-up and race car trailer for all the OTR trucks that are tied down for HOS rest.
Shadow the Cats owner
Parking for OTR units [and other trucks] has been a growing problem for years, and very little signs that it was going to get any better. Small rest areas on Interstates definitely, have been a big issue!
Virginia Hy-Po's used to run through the Rest Areas regularly, checking Big Rig at the parking areas, and mark trailer wheels with a chalk stick; come back and write tickets for drivers whom they perceived had been there too long(?).
Enforcement of Rest Area rules seemed to depend on individual jurisdictions, and local practices. East Coast areas were definitely, more heavily watched. Trucks Stop lots would fill up early, and the 'later arrivals' there would snarl the traffic flows, and access in many T/S parking lots. With the poorer parkig choices for stopping places becoming, more and more dangerous for drivers who 'had' to stop.
The more recent changes in HOS rules, more than likely; have seriously exacerbated a lack choice of options for those drivers; who found themselves with fewer options to comply, with HOS regulations (?)
My feeling is that Shipper Loading, and Consignee Unloading, will always be problematic fo the Trucking Industry. Maybe, not so much with the Railroads ?
Until, the Truckers get relief and get some legislative backing; The load/Unload will be out of their control...Shipper's and Receiver's seem to be able to laugh off the threats of demurrage charges by trucking companies?
Shadow the Cats ownerBalt right now even the big boys are starting to scream at the shippers over lost time. Why they can not keep enough bodies in the seats to maintain their deliveries that they have scheduled already. Hell our insurance industry is screaming at the Federal government over the ELD and HOS dibacles. Since ELD's were mandated there hasn't been the drop in accidents that the FMCSA swore there would be in OTR truck accidents. NOPE in the first year since ELD's have been forced down our throats OTR accidents that the cause is suspected of being Fatigue as the primary cause jumped 40% in the industry. Drivers are pushing harder to make up for lost time and not getting the rest they need due to lack of parking in the areas where their clocks are running out. Yet the ELD was supposed to save lives. It's costing more lives.
Balt right now even the big boys are starting to scream at the shippers over lost time. Why they can not keep enough bodies in the seats to maintain their deliveries that they have scheduled already. Hell our insurance industry is screaming at the Federal government over the ELD and HOS dibacles. Since ELD's were mandated there hasn't been the drop in accidents that the FMCSA swore there would be in OTR truck accidents. NOPE in the first year since ELD's have been forced down our throats OTR accidents that the cause is suspected of being Fatigue as the primary cause jumped 40% in the industry. Drivers are pushing harder to make up for lost time and not getting the rest they need due to lack of parking in the areas where their clocks are running out. Yet the ELD was supposed to save lives. It's costing more lives.
Shadow the Cats ownerThe public right now is finding out how well forcing ELD onto the OTR industry is biting them in the rear end. Why the logjams of shippers and consignees that refuse to load and unload in a timely fashion are showing up in the form of empty shelves on things people like to buy. Things like yogurts meats produce. Why are there problems now drivers are required to log it as it happens no more hiding the time they are holding the trucks. Kraft and other food makers are pulling their hair out trying to solve the problems they themselves have caused. Grocery warehouses are becoming where trucks go to die on the clock. Just before Christmas we had a load of boxed cereal that went to the Jewel DC in Melrose Park. Our driver was on time for his appointment had made the run up from just south of Joliet where he had stopped the night before. It took them 15 hours to get him unloaded. Yet they say it is the drivers causing the problems.
Just before Christmas we had a load of boxed cereal that went to the Jewel DC in Melrose Park. Our driver was on time for his appointment had made the run up from just south of Joliet where he had stopped the night before. It took them 15 hours to get him unloaded. Yet they say it is the drivers causing the problems.
The 'shipping public' has alway felt that they can stiff carriers (truck and rail) on the so call Accessorial Charges (Demurrage, Intraplant switching, storage etc. etc.) In Shadow's example the shippers lack of efficiency is coming right back to their loading/unloading dock and truckers 'going on the law'. Rail carriers have faught the same lack of efficiency among their customers ever since I was employed in 1965 and probably back when my Grandfather was hired in 1910.
When is comes time to renegotiate contract rates with the shipper, those that get the most hostile are those that have virtual monoply control of their customers and continually jack the costs their customers have to pay, maybe 50 to 75% or more over the life of the transporation contract. When the rail carriers propose market rate increases all these monopolistic shippers can do is cry about how the railroads are 'taking advantage' using their own market power.
The public right now is finding out how well forcing ELD onto the OTR industry is biting them in the rear end. Why the logjams of shippers and consignees that refuse to load and unload in a timely fashion are showing up in the form of empty shelves on things people like to buy. Things like yogurts meats produce. Why are there problems now drivers are required to log it as it happens no more hiding the time they are holding the trucks. Kraft and other food makers are pulling their hair out trying to solve the problems they themselves have caused. Grocery warehouses are becoming where trucks go to die on the clock.
"The public damned."
What will the media make of re-regulation should it raise up its head again? What version of the story will be told and to what end?
"Still a third version comes from Vanderbilt’s favorite nephew, Samuel Barton, who was traveling aboard the train with his uncle that day. He reported quite a different context a few years later to William A. Croffut, who published a biography of Vanderbilt in 1886.
“Why are you going to stop this fast mail-train?” Dresser asked in this version.
“Because it doesn’t pay. I can’t run a train as far as this permanently at a loss.”
“But the public find it very convenient and useful. You ought to accommodate them.”
“The public? How do you know they find it useful? How do you know, or how can I know, that they want it? If they want it, why don’t they patronize it and make it pay? That’s the only test I have of whether a thing is wanted—does it pay? If it doesn’t pay, I suppose it isn’t wanted.”
“Mr. Vanderbilt, are you working for the public or for your stockholders?”
“The public be damned! I am working for my stockholders! If the public want the train, why don’t they support it?”
https://www.americanheritage.com/content/%E2%80%9C-public-be-damned%E2%80%9D
rrnut282 Someone please describe how throwing away current customers is a realistic long-term business plan. Over time, customers go away on their own.
Someone please describe how throwing away current customers is a realistic long-term business plan. Over time, customers go away on their own.
Of course, it's not.
Sometimes it does cost more to provide the service than not. Or as Jeff points out, you just don't make enough money on providing the service. A low-volume customer that causes you to go out of your way to service it, f'rinstance.
Getting rid of those customers is important to some as it represents money not funnelled to the investors. A crew that doesn't have to be called, a locomotive that can be used elsewhere, track time that can be used for more profitable trains.
The question becomes what's worth keeping. The customer, the employees, and the investors are going to have very different takes on that.
In a way, you can see parallels in the trucking business. Some companies handle the long-distance stuff (RR Class 1's), other handle the local or regional business (Class 2's and short lines).
The refusal to haul predates the PSR movement at some railroads. It's not really an outright refusal, except maybe for new business opprotunities, but more just making it difficult for those customers you no longer want. Eventually most go away. It's not always that they don't make money on them, just not enough. Or serving them makes the Operating Ratio a bit higher, nevermind that you might have more cash in hand. As long as they can squeeze more pennies out of each dollar they have, they don't care about bringing in more dollars.
Jeff
zugmann Euclid I agree that a definition of PSR is needed. I think you seek what does not exist. Investors like PSR because it's all buzzwordy. Sounds better than decreasing dwell time, increasing velocity, streamlining rules, etc. But as PSR being one set of guidelines? Nah, I think it's more a generic term that can encompass many different approaches to improve shareholder value.
Euclid I agree that a definition of PSR is needed.
I think you seek what does not exist. Investors like PSR because it's all buzzwordy. Sounds better than decreasing dwell time, increasing velocity, streamlining rules, etc.
But as PSR being one set of guidelines? Nah, I think it's more a generic term that can encompass many different approaches to improve shareholder value.
Yes, I agree that it is a buzzword for something that is not new at all. But you can’t prove that in debating all of the platitudes of PSR. So, I seek a definition of PSR only to prove that it has none. PSR is an illusion.
The PSR illusion, in practical terms, manifests as cost cutting, which puts it into conflict with labor. I am sure that this is what Mr. Rose was getting at.
Euclid So, which is it, price differentiation or refusal to haul?
So, which is it, price differentiation or refusal to haul?
samfp1943Part of Mr. Rose's statement says [in part]FTA: "...what we’re doing in PSR is we’re redefining what we’re willing to accept in the freight railroad industry on certain lanes. And I really do believe we’re going to get in a lot of trouble by doing that..."
samfp1943Stating further he is quoted:"...“What the [Surface Transportation Board] allows us to do is what we call price differentiate,” he said, illustrating with an example of airline passengers in adjacent seats who may have paid significantly different fares depending on when they bought the ticket. “We get that same right, but we have to carry you from Point A down here to Florida. If the airlines say, ‘We’re not going to provide service to that market,’ I think they’d get in trouble. I think the freight rails will get in trouble doing that..."
I agree that a definition of PSR is needed. All I have ever heard are explantions of it that are incomprehensible. It sounds like Mr. Rose is trying to explain why BNSF will not make PSR a part of their marketing style.
kgbw49 Interesting difference in operating philosophies. In 2018, BNSF carried 10.674 million revenue units while UP carried 8.886 million revenue units. That is 1.788 million or 20% more than UP. http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/01/07-a-sea-of-sameness-for-class-i-railroad-traffic-growth-in-2018
Interesting difference in operating philosophies.
In 2018, BNSF carried 10.674 million revenue units while UP carried 8.886 million revenue units.
That is 1.788 million or 20% more than UP.
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/01/07-a-sea-of-sameness-for-class-i-railroad-traffic-growth-in-2018
Politicians howling over stalled pet projects will supercede unhappy shippers.
See my new thread. PSR is assett utilization oriented railroadoing, The other approach is customer oriented railroading.
Precision Scheduled Railroad... another meaning to add to the list I found that had 91 entries... none of which had anything to do with Railroads. I had a hard time even finding the Trains Newswire. (Link at the top right of the page, "Trains .com Sites", click 'Trains Magazine'. This is apparently the front door to the web site, I tend to come in through the servants entrance to the forums and never see the foyer.)
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
PSR is buzzword BS.
The best thing to do is to define "PSR". I can't find any words on-line that form that acronym that has anything to do with Railroads or the goverment.
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