The White House relationship with UP railroad goes back to when he was President and used them and CSX for components of his campaign train in 1992 and even before that probably. He has used UP's Executive train on a number of occasions before this including a trip out west to Nevada and Utah, trip from Houston to College Station for opening of his Presidential Library. I am operating off memory but I seem to also remember that President Reagan had a campaign train as well that Bush rode on which they used the old POTUS car the Fernidad Megellian from Florida's Gold Coast Museum? Pretty sure I saw significant UP railroad cars in that Reagan consist as well.
Lending out the Executive train is not unusual for Union Pacific. They have a business relationship with the Perot's as well and Margot Perot has used their Executive train out of Dallas Union Station for one of her charities for fund raising. I am sure that relationship probably either started via joint interest in the charity or the Perot Family did some land deals with UP railroad since the Perot's own a lot of Texas real estate.
Each time the UP uses their executive train for a purpose other than business they may or may not get a tax write off, which depends on the use. Then there is the publicity of having their brand name in the public view. Business Lear Jets operate in the same way and are loaned to politicians and sometimes TV preachers as well for lobbying or for the tax benefits.
As far as the World War II generation dying off. Vince Sparanza is still alive at the age of 94 (or there abouts) and has attended several 101st Airborne reunions. He was a machine gunner at the Battle of Bastongne in World War II and has a lot of decorations. The man is walking history and loves to sing the paratrooper song "Blood on the Risers"......which is awesome even though it has one or two verses that get kind of gory (heh-heh). More than one YouTube video out there with him in it. Battle of the Bulge and the sieze of Bastogne is a milestone in WWII history.
I noticed a possible gaffe on Fox News this evening--the statement was made to the effect that the casket would be carried in Train 4141; now, if the UP designated the train as X4141, this was correct. I did not notice any gaffe on the NBC news.
Johnny
Deggesty greyhounds This is a story on the funeral train from whatever is left of Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/why-train-carrying-president-hw-bush-thursday-heres-why-and-more-about-his-1246291 I think it may set a new low for journalism. How on earth did the writer conclude that UP locomotive #4141 was originally a postal storage car? Such people walk among us and vote. The comments about the engine were absolutely ridiculous. The casket was to be placed in the engine? The engine was a rebuilt "postal car"? As greyhounds said, the writer is absolutely ignorant when it comes to trains. One could wonder if the writer even knows the purpose of trains.
greyhounds This is a story on the funeral train from whatever is left of Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/why-train-carrying-president-hw-bush-thursday-heres-why-and-more-about-his-1246291 I think it may set a new low for journalism. How on earth did the writer conclude that UP locomotive #4141 was originally a postal storage car? Such people walk among us and vote.
This is a story on the funeral train from whatever is left of Newsweek.
https://www.newsweek.com/why-train-carrying-president-hw-bush-thursday-heres-why-and-more-about-his-1246291
I think it may set a new low for journalism. How on earth did the writer conclude that UP locomotive #4141 was originally a postal storage car? Such people walk among us and vote.
The comments about the engine were absolutely ridiculous. The casket was to be placed in the engine? The engine was a rebuilt "postal car"?
As greyhounds said, the writer is absolutely ignorant when it comes to trains. One could wonder if the writer even knows the purpose of trains.
The fact that it was a funeral train for a former president, who had been a 'friend to the industry, and was honored [as few others in that environement have been]. One thing has been pretty evident G.H.W. Bush; he was a network builder, both foreign and domesticly. He cemented friendships with his heroic letter, and note writing responses to individual's with whom their paths had crossed.
It is pretty obvious that the former president had certaily forged some strong relationships within the management of the Union Pacific, starting under the Richard(Dick) Davidson team. Just the care that has been lavished on the #4141 for over 10 years is testiment to that. He was apparently, a good family man and a patriot, who seemed to live an admirable life. No need for us to beat the guy up after he is dead. The generation that fought and died for honoralble ideals, of the WWII eara are rapidly dying off. Enjoy what they have given to the living, honor them and respect their sarifices.
,
Paul_D_North_Jr What did this George Bush do for - and against - the rail industry? Bush was sitting President during the 1991 UTU strike that went to a PEB on a dispute of crew consist size. I was employed as a rr client back then and was yrs away from entering the rail indudtry, thus I did not care dilly poo on how the labor issue was resolved. The award by the PEB abolished the craft of brakeman, resulting the loss of 25,000 trainman positions. Fair or not, most old head employees I have dealt with were not fans of 41
What did this George Bush do for - and against - the rail industry?
As a UP shareholder, I am proud to have Union Pacific participate in honoring President Bush and using #4141 as they are. Great plan. And in the youtube video, George sure enjoyed operating 4141. A fitting goodby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGrDKR1kf_M&t=10s
GrampI think he would have won a second term had Ross Perot not entered the race with his nonsense.
Agree, few people have a real clue about Perot thanks to the velvet glove treatment he got in the Media. Though to be fair, usually the media scruitinizes a candidate once they are nominated..........it's all superficial before then.
I think Bush 41 was a decent, kind man. To me his crowning achievement in office was using his masterful skill in building a worldwide coalition to wrest Hussein out of Kuwait in the Gulf War.
Bush 41 was savaged by his political opposition and the media during his presidency. I think Graves disease he contracted during that time also had a strong impact on him. I think he would have won a second term had Ross Perot not entered the race with his nonsense. As a result Clinton backed in.
I'm very happy that Union Pacific is providing part of the procession to College Station, and wish I could see the train go past on its way. I remember when Bush 41 whistlestopped through our area during his campaign.
May Bush 41 rest in peace.
Zardoz, I don't like the guy either but this forum isn't for that kind of comment.
Firelock76We've had "warrior kings" before. We'll have them again.
Video of 4141 in transport
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/politics/george-h-w-bush/a-look-at-the-train-that-will-take-president-george-hw-bush-to-final-resting-place/85-619869435
Great stuff from Mike indeed!
Call me old-fashioned and out of touch with today's reality, but I believe in the idea of "The Warrior King" who "Wins his throne with his sword."
And if the sword was a Grumman "Avenger," why the hell not?
We've had "warrior kings" before. We'll have them again.
Great stuff from Mike
Before there was fly over country, funeral trains carried national figures to their grave. All along the route people would turn out and pay their respects as the train passed.
The longest funeral route for a president had to be Warren Harding in 1923. Harding died in San Francisco. Harding's body was taken by rail back to a state funeral in Washington, D. C.
After the funeral Harding's body was taken by train to Marion, OH for burial.
A general wrote I would love to have 2 armies. 1 would be my showpiece with polished brass and boots and could do close order drill with precision. They would be my public face. The real soldiers however would be a bunch of men and women that regardless of what we asked did the jobs without complaints but were to scary to show off to the public.
Firelock76You know, I always wondered if it was slightly irresponsible for the US government to turn a bunch of kids loose with this kind of high-powered machinery, but on the other hand, what choice did they have?
Your right, they cut short training in times of need to process volume.
During the current two wars, the need for Infantry was so great they increased the barracks housing on Fort Benning and increased volume of those processed each cycle. But they also cut training in the non-essential areas of drill and ceremony, inspections, and thank goodness they got rid of the black boots and having to shine them. With the time saved by the cuts they added IED training, road blocks, and other training areas specific to the two wars.
The 14 week program is going to expand to 22 weeks in the not too distant future and I suspect it is Gen Mattis wanting to add more weapons training. He is also finally making the Army PT test gender neutral and it will require more points to pass for the Combat Arms MOS' (at least I think that was his direction).
In regards to locomotive 4141 there is a link now on the UP website.
Prescott Bush
https://ia601203.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/23/items/SovietAmericanColdWarOrganizedCrime349/Yale%20University_%20%20A%20Devil%E2%80%99s%20Workshop_-113_jp2.zip&file=Yale%20University_%20%20A%20Devil%E2%80%99s%20Workshop_-113_jp2/Yale%20University_%20%20A%20Devil%E2%80%99s%20Workshop_-113_0054.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0
More very good info...courtesy our friend Mike
Regarding 4141 in service
https://www.encirclephotos.com/image/george-h-w-bush-summer-compound-on-walkers-point-in-kennebunkport-maine/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ6uLskuv0Y&t=5m
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015031294864;seq=35;width=1020
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015031294864;seq=36;width=1020
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015031294864;seq=37;width=1020
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=mdp.39015031294864;seq=38;width=1020
https://www.kennebunkmaine.us/PhotoViewScreen.aspx?PID=196&FullSize=true
Has the 4141 been used in revenue service since it was presidentally decorated?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
4141 was on all the major networks today. It will take the Bush family in Union Pacific executive cars a distance of 87 miles.
Overmod "...Well, I guess we'll find out now what they do after they take the tarp off..."
"...Well, I guess we'll find out now what they do after they take the tarp off..."
I think it was a quote in a TRAINS article, that I first saw this reference to the 4141 being held at NLR at the Jenks Shops, and stored covered there.
I never saw it under a load, nor any photos of it in revenue service. Although the linked story below quotes the UPRR spokesperson as saying the 4141 would operate over a milion miles during its service'life'.
Here is a quote from an article linked and posted by Miningman[in part] https://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/releases/heritage_and_steam/2005/1018_4141.shtml "...Omaha, Neb., October 18, 2005: Union Pacific is paying tribute to President George Herbert Walker Bush with a custom-painted locomotive. Incorporating colors and elements of the Air Force One used during Mr. Bush's presidency, the new Union Pacific locomotive bears the number 4141, in honor of the 41st president. The special locomotive, which replicates Air Force One's design as a striking symbol of national pride and strength, was revealed to the former president during a ceremony near the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum on the Texas A&M University campus in College Station, Texas...President Bush said..." I am deeply grateful to Dick Davidson and Union Pacific for their friendship and support. If we had the UP 4141 back when I was still in Office, I might have left Air Force One behind more often!.."
Seems to be a point of interest that Bush '41' will ride to his burial at College Station,Tx. behind UPRR 4141.
One has to wonder if UP#4141 will eventually reside at the Bush 41 Library at Tx. A&M, in the manner of the aircraft (Boeing 707) that is a center piece at the Regan library?
https://fox6now.com/2018/12/01/george-hw-bushs-campaign-train-tour-in-wi-was-his-last-his-consultants-told-him-he-was-going-to-lose/
. https://www.jtf.usstatefuneral.mdw.army.mil/docs/default-source/default-document-library/41w-nr02-official-schedule---state-funeral-for-george-hw-bush.pdf?sfvrsn=d47a34cb_0
It looks like George H.W. Bush is going home in style.
PJS1 Firelock76 PJS1, the US wasn't the only "offender," if you want to call it that. If what I've read is true most of the Luftwaffe's Me109's were destroyed not in combat, but in take-off and landing accidents. And "Semper Fi!" to you! You are correct re: accidents for other air forces.
Firelock76 PJS1, the US wasn't the only "offender," if you want to call it that. If what I've read is true most of the Luftwaffe's Me109's were destroyed not in combat, but in take-off and landing accidents. And "Semper Fi!" to you!
And "Semper Fi!" to you!
You are correct re: accidents for other air forces.
I just remembered, when I was MCAS Cherry Point in 1976 one of the squadrons restored a TBF to flying status and needed a pilot experienced in the type to try it out.
There were only two on base at the time, the wing commander MajGen Spanger, and CWO-4 Wildfang, who was also the "Silver Hawk," the senior Naval Aviator, at the time.
Both showed up at the squadron at the same time with their logbooks, and it turned out "Gunner" Wildfang had more hours in the TBF than the general did, so he flew it first. Mind you, when the "Gunner" landed and taxied back to the hanger General Spanger practically dragged him out of the cockpit for his turn!
All in good fun though! That particular airplane's now at the National Museum Of The Marine Corps in Quantico VA, along with a LOT of other goodies! Well worth a visit if you're ever in the area, trust me.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.