blue streak 1 Grit TV is running several times Kansas Pacific. Please do not take anything as gospel if you decide to watch ! Watched 5 -10 minutes and found these errors. Supposely pre civil war but going west out of Kansas City. Locomotive certainly late 1800 -1900s, Boss says lts go to town. Engineer tells fireman to fire up cold engine and then gives three toots to go forward. Cars have type "E" couplers and have regular air brakes. No brakeme with cars not having top brake wheels. Track is ballasted and some welded rail. End of track has about 5 sidings with a string of steel hopper cars. Couldn't watch any more ! Directors license ? UGH !
Grit TV is running several times Kansas Pacific. Please do not take anything as gospel if you decide to watch ! Watched 5 -10 minutes and found these errors. Supposely pre civil war but going west out of Kansas City. Locomotive certainly late 1800 -1900s, Boss says lts go to town. Engineer tells fireman to fire up cold engine and then gives three toots to go forward. Cars have type "E" couplers and have regular air brakes. No brakeme with cars not having top brake wheels. Track is ballasted and some welded rail. End of track has about 5 sidings with a string of steel hopper cars.
Couldn't watch any more ! Directors license ? UGH !
Its a TV show called Kansas Pacific? While it's entirely possible whatever it is is no longer showing on GritTV, I could only find a movie Kansas Pacific (1953) with Sterling Hayden & Eve Miller appearing on Amazon Prime and EPIX, currently.
Sounds like it could have been similar to this:
http://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2012/R12E0182/R12E0182.asp
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Rats - hate that especially at the end of the year..Somehow the near blizzard conditions out there in the open probably played a part.
A few days ago a UP employee was killed in a "train-related incident" in or near Oakley, KS. The linked story is also from a few days ago. The current update on UP's employee site has posted the name of the employee, but no other details.
https://www.ksn.com/news/kansas/union-pacific-employee-killed-in-western-kansas-1/1681204096
Jeff
Fox2! make the ROW into a walking/biking/equestrian path.
Those 3 groups love to fight each other here.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Fox2!And in some places, if there is even the rumor of abandonment, you get the rails to trails people planning to pull up the tracks and make the ROW into a walking/biking/equestrian path.
If you're in the Adirondacks, people campaign to have the rails removed even though they're in use. Any talk of of actually building a trail, however, is met with silence...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD. They now understand, when it's gone, it's GONE.
They now understand, when it's gone, it's GONE.
blue streak 1 Electroliner 1935 What is Grit TV? I'm dumb Around here it is on the over - the- air TV stations on one of the sub channels. As far as cable ? ? EDIT here is link to their broadcast stations https://www.grittv.com/find-us/
Electroliner 1935 What is Grit TV? I'm dumb
What is Grit TV? I'm dumb
Around here it is on the over - the- air TV stations on one of the sub channels. As far as cable ? ?
EDIT here is link to their broadcast stations
https://www.grittv.com/find-us/
Any relation to the 'Grit' newspaper that I used to see advertised in the aggate classifieds on Popular Mechanics?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Electroliner 1935 samfp1943 To be of some interest in following this Thread, it is the Kansas Statewide Rail Plan, dates to: Novrmber 2017. Chapter two seems to have some issues with traffic over the former KP, line. What issues? Following is what I find in chapter 2, sec 2.2.4 about the Kansas & Pacific: The Kansas Pacific, consisting of the Kansas, Salina and Sharon Springs Subdivisions, begins at Kansas City and leaves Kansas at its western border near Sharon Springs en route to its terminus at Denver. Primary traffic is unit coal trains that originate in the Yampa and North Fork Coal Fields in Colorado en route to utilities in Kansas and the Midwest, empty return coal trains, and locally originating unit grain trains and grain moving in blocks of 26 or 52 cars. The Kansas Pacific is mostly single-track and is not currently equipped with CTC. It is approximately 445 miles. Approximate rail traffic per day is 15 trains. Are you saying the 15 is too high?
samfp1943 To be of some interest in following this Thread, it is the Kansas Statewide Rail Plan, dates to: Novrmber 2017. Chapter two seems to have some issues with traffic over the former KP, line.
What issues? Following is what I find in chapter 2, sec 2.2.4 about the Kansas & Pacific:
The Kansas Pacific, consisting of the Kansas, Salina and Sharon Springs Subdivisions, begins at Kansas City and leaves Kansas at its western border near Sharon Springs en route to its terminus at Denver. Primary traffic is unit coal trains that originate in the Yampa and North Fork Coal Fields in Colorado en route to utilities in Kansas and the Midwest, empty return coal trains, and locally originating unit grain trains and grain moving in blocks of 26 or 52 cars. The Kansas Pacific is mostly single-track and is not currently equipped with CTC. It is approximately 445 miles. Approximate rail traffic per day is 15 trains.
Are you saying the 15 is too high?
BaltACD I think the carriers have reached the point in 'plant rationalization' of thinking that there is ANY POSSIBLE need for a line in the future, you either short line lease it or hold on to it in mothballs. They now understand, when it's gone, it's GONE. And IF it were EVER needed again there would be years of EIS and NIMBY, BANANA litigation as well as investment to the level of 10 to 20 times any scrap value realized.
I think the carriers have reached the point in 'plant rationalization' of thinking that there is ANY POSSIBLE need for a line in the future, you either short line lease it or hold on to it in mothballs.
They now understand, when it's gone, it's GONE. And IF it were EVER needed again there would be years of EIS and NIMBY, BANANA litigation as well as investment to the level of 10 to 20 times any scrap value realized.
Deleted. Reposted as reply to BaltACD
samfp1943To be of some interest in following this Thread, it is the Kansas Statewide Rail Plan, dates to: Novrmber 2017. Chapter two seems to have some issues with traffic over the former KP, line.
jeffhergert I did a little looking at Salina. East to KC, the pool has 9 engineer turns. West to Sharon Springs, the pool has 8 engineer turns. (I didn't look up conductor turns on the road pools.) The Salina extra board has 9 engineers on it. The conductor's extra board also has 9 and is considered a "road" extra board. There is also a brakeman/switchman extra board with 8 on it. I didn't look too closely, but it appears there is a morning and afternoon yard job and at least one local based there. Jeff
I did a little looking at Salina. East to KC, the pool has 9 engineer turns. West to Sharon Springs, the pool has 8 engineer turns. (I didn't look up conductor turns on the road pools.) The Salina extra board has 9 engineers on it. The conductor's extra board also has 9 and is considered a "road" extra board. There is also a brakeman/switchman extra board with 8 on it. I didn't look too closely, but it appears there is a morning and afternoon yard job and at least one local based there.
https://www.ksdot.org/Assets/wwwksdotorg/bureaus/burRail/Rail/Documents/KDOTRailPlan.pdf
To be of some interest in following this Thread, it is the Kansas Statewide Rail Plan, dates to: Novrmber 2017. Chapter two seems to have some issues with traffic over the former KP, line.
To make a correction, my comment in this thread (#9) was actually meant to be placed in the Rio Grande discusssion and not here. My error.
[quote user="Shadow the Cats owner"]
Mudchicken that from what I've read was their ace in the hole to force lower trackage rights fees from the SP when they redid them. SP wanted to raise them higher the Santa Fe said sure you can however we will just build our own line right over the same mountain group and then pull our trains.
I believe this SP-ATSF in Tehachipe(sc) story has two scenereos, the 1st in the 1890's and then again in the 1960's. I was somewhat envolved in the 1960's with the matter of SP wishing to raise the "trackage rights" fees. This was was resolved with ICC intervention. Yes, in the 1960's ATSF once again looked at the 1890's study and decided it was not practical, both with $$$ and engineering practicality.
Jeff will be able to tell us how many extra bd condr & engrs are maintained at the terminals. Crew bases have a certain number of extra bd and pool crews. A station, such as Salina, may call say for 8 condrs, 8 engrs but that is only a self guess. When there are too many trains and not enough crews, trains are parked until a rested crew is available for duty
Jeff, How does the UP provide crews for the KP? Are some terminals staffed with multi-route qualified ones that can keep busy on busier routes and used on the KP when needed or do they have crews on a standby pay plan? If there are only two or three trips a day, what happens when a blockage requires six to ten trips?
blue streak 1 jeffhergert Jeff Of course in 10 - 14 years a third track might again be needed ? But no company plans that far ahead !
jeffhergert Jeff
I doubt that. But you're right about the planning ahead. I'm sure there are parts of the company planning for the long term. However, the part that controls the purse strings only plans for the next quarter.
BaltACD When you think you have all the answers, you then find out that the questions are not the ones you have the answers for.
When you think you have all the answers, you then find out that the questions are not the ones you have the answers for.
It was more interesting, from a nostalgic point of view, in how traffic was routed at one time. When D&RGW was an independent line and before WP's absorbtion by UP, interchange was almost exclusively BN/RG or RI/RG at the east end and RG/WP or RG/SP at the west end. Shippers would route cars via a variety of routes and even UP via Denver to afford competitive service and rates.
Saving a line vs. getting rid is a difficult proposition and expensive to reverse if the prognosis is wrong. Coal is a sobering aspect of investment that seems to have resulted in relatively sudden excess plant, whereas some corridors experince increases in volume owing to the development of energy sources thwarting that very coal business. If there's "surge capacity" this presumes some excess of route or track at a point in time. Perhaps that's too expensive, anymore, to keep one's card close.
While the single track former C&NW line east from Missouri Valley, IA to Dennison was being double-tracked, for awhile UP used the IC (or CN/IC) line which parallels UP to Council Bluffs as an extra track. That was great with big freights on jointed rail - very melodious. But activity on this route has been in decline for nearly a decade now. It's still healthy, but not continually in near-crisis stage as once seemed to define getting stuff over-the-road.
The KP has always had some grain business although hadn't functioned as a through route for years and is a teetering route without the coal volume vs. the persuasion toward concentration of business on corridors. And I'd love to hear what is the philosophy of keeping the 3% grade Tenn Pass route intact. I mean, that's farsighted to do so by now. Still, once it's gone, it's gone.
Shadow the Cats owner BNSF did in the 90s when they eliminated almost every single track bottleneck on the transcon. Then the board of directors got pissed at the CEO for wasting MONEY fired him and then stopped the expansion. Then when the traffic hit screamed what were we thinking. They learned their lesson and since have not stopped eliminating bottle necks whenever possible.
BNSF did in the 90s when they eliminated almost every single track bottleneck on the transcon. Then the board of directors got pissed at the CEO for wasting MONEY fired him and then stopped the expansion. Then when the traffic hit screamed what were we thinking. They learned their lesson and since have not stopped eliminating bottle necks whenever possible.
Well if they're going to keep the KP they need to use the KP for more than six trains per day. There is some amount of freight moving St. Louis/Kansas City/Denver. Along with intermediate points such as Abilene, Manhattan, Ft. Riley and Salina. Either get every marginally profitable pound of freight they can, or dispose of the line.
Sitting back and waiting for something to happen is not a good business plan.
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