I was on one of trains and got out my phone to check our speed. I was about to flip when it occurred to me that the app was displaying km/hour, vs MPH...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
An old Santa Fe story: The General Manager was in his business car behind Train #19, The Chief, on the New Mexico Division where he had been Superentdent for many years. The engineer was a man whom he had relied upon to make up time when a passenger train had been delayed. Upon arriving at Las Vegas, the crew change location, the GM was on the platform when the engineer walked toward the yard office to sign out. The GM said "Pete my car showed a speed of 65 between MP's 742 and 744 and the TT restriction is 55. Pete replied I sure didn't see you go around me. OK Pete, we arrived in Las Vegas On Time."
DeggestyNow, when I am able to time using mile posts, I do not see any infractions of the rules.
Using mileposts, how old fashioned. I just use a GPS app on my cellphone. I remember back in the early forties, mostly from my father, timing mileposts on a PRR train from Chicago to Lebanon IN. The train had been delayed because the Calunet River Bridge had been raised, ad after we got on the open Indiana ROW, standing in the last car's vestibule where Dad clocked us (with his Hamilton watch) at over 90 mph. Also when I rode behind 611 on a Roanoke NRHS Chapter's Independence Limited and Mr. G Clayter was at the throttle between Belvue and Ft. Wayne, I was in the vestibule of the last car (observation) and while the ETT read speed max for passenger trains was 60, I clocked us at 51 seconds between MP's. Mentioned it to some of the engine crew enroute to the motel and they denyed any speeding. Who's going to tell the boss. But the thing that still impresses me was that the track was perfect. Looking up the length of the train, there was no motion between the cars. None. We could have been stopped, the cars had NO jouncing or motion at the diaphrams. That track could have been rated for 100+. Still carry a speed table but use GPS.
Using mileposts, how old fashioned. I just use a GPS app on my cellphone. I remember back in the early forties, mostly from my father, timing mileposts on a PRR train from Chicago to Lebanon IN. The train had been delayed because the Calunet River Bridge had been raised, ad after we got on the open Indiana ROW, standing in the last car's vestibule where he clocked us at over 90 mph. Also when I rode behind 611 on a Roanoke NRHS Chapter's Independence Limited and Mr. G Clayter was at the throttle between Belvue and Ft. Wayne, I was in the vestibule of the last car (observation) and while the ETT read speed max for passenger trains was 60, I clocked us at 51 seconds between MP's. Mentioned it to some of the engine crew enroute to the motel and they denyed any speeding. Who's going to tell the boss. But the thing that still impresses me was that the track was perfect. Looking up the length of the train, there was no motion between the cars. None. We could have been stopped, the cars had NO jouncing or motion at the diaphrams. That track could have been rated for 100+. Still carry a speed table but use GPS.
BaltACD Who said leaglly! The 1950's and the 21st Century are worlds apart with legalities and enforcement.
Who said leaglly! The 1950's and the 21st Century are worlds apart with legalities and enforcement.
As Balt says, the speed limits were not exceeded legally. In the mid-sixties, I rode an engine for 100 miles on a line with ABS only--and except for a station stop and curves, the speedometer hovered on the 90 mph mark. On the same road, on another section of track, I timed a mile in 35 seconds.
As has been said, there was little, if any, real enforcement of the ICC's rules in some areas.
Now, when I am able to time using mile posts, I do not see any infractions of the rules.
Johnny
Overmod BaltACD In the 50's Maximum Speeds on various railroads were more of a 'suggestion' than they were a hard and fast limit. It was a different time with different sensibilities than exist today. My father was a Division Superintendent - His instructions to his engineers - if you need to make up time - as fast as the train will go - OBEY, curve restrictions, City Restrictions, Temporary Speed restrictions - everywhere else, go for it. This is fascinating because it represents a widespread, systemic, and specific violation of Federal law! I believe as early as 1952 the strict application of the ICC train-control order of 1947 (enforcing the control provisions of 1920) applied across any line in 'the general system of transportation'; the permission to 90mph is interesting because it would represent the presence of one 'safety' system (likely continuous cab signals) but not another (some mandated form of train control or stop). Can someone explain to me how this flouting of enacted law was managed, legally?
BaltACD In the 50's Maximum Speeds on various railroads were more of a 'suggestion' than they were a hard and fast limit. It was a different time with different sensibilities than exist today. My father was a Division Superintendent - His instructions to his engineers - if you need to make up time - as fast as the train will go - OBEY, curve restrictions, City Restrictions, Temporary Speed restrictions - everywhere else, go for it.
This is fascinating because it represents a widespread, systemic, and specific violation of Federal law! I believe as early as 1952 the strict application of the ICC train-control order of 1947 (enforcing the control provisions of 1920) applied across any line in 'the general system of transportation'; the permission to 90mph is interesting because it would represent the presence of one 'safety' system (likely continuous cab signals) but not another (some mandated form of train control or stop).
Can someone explain to me how this flouting of enacted law was managed, legally?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDIn the 50's Maximum Speeds on various railroads were more of a 'suggestion' than they were a hard and fast limit. It was a different time with different sensibilities than exist today. My father was a Division Superintendent - His instructions to his engineers - if you need to make up time - as fast as the train will go - OBEY, curve restrictions, City Restrictions, Temporary Speed restrictions - everywhere else, go for it.
BaltACDIn the 50's Maximum Speeds on various railroads were more of a 'suggestion' than they were a hard and fast limit. It was a different time with different sensibilities than exist today.
In the 50's Maximum Speeds on various railroads were more of a 'suggestion' than they were a hard and fast limit. It was a different time with different sensibilities than exist today.
My father was a Division Superintendent - His instructions to his engineers - if you need to make up time - as fast as the train will go - OBEY, curve restrictions, City Restrictions, Temporary Speed restrictions - everywhere else, go for it.
While PRR ETT's may have said 70 MPH max, I have little doubt that local management's thoughts mirrored my Fathers.
The American Association of Railroad Superintendents was a signifigant organization in those days with many local chapters where an areas Superintendents met, networked and traded ideas. https://supt.org/
LAWRENCE SMITHLAWRENCE SMITH wrote the following post yesterday: This is great detail. I read an ETT on the Indy/Columbus line from the 50s that said the speed limiit was 70. So the cab signals allowed 90?
That was my memory but have not been able to find my ETT. Did find this from '65 and it shows 75 mph between Richmond and the division post east of Indianapolis. As the PRR was in financial trouble they may have chosen to not maintain it to that speed.
http://www.cincyrails.com/files/PRR_BuckeyeRegion-4-30-1961.pdf See page 71
It's been 60 years since I took that ride and I,ve always thought we were doing over 80 mph but the crews wouldn't speed would they? Only negative was that the E-8's only had two seats so I was standing all the time except from Logansport to Indy and between Columbus & Newark when I went back to the diner for diner. The berth was welcome when I went back to Cincy.
Wonder whether PRR didn't want to discontinue Cab Signals due to the effort to go through the ICC. It had significant maintenance cost to operate, 100 Hz power line and MG frequency changer sets as well as all the code relays, etc.
This is great detail. I read an ETT on the Indy/Columbus line from the 50s that said the speed limiit was 70. So the cab signals allowed 90?
LAWRENCE SMITHI assume not under catenary so somewhere W of Harrisburg?
Yes, your assumption is correct. My experiences were on PRR's Buckeye Region which was based in Cincinnati and had the Cincinnati-Logansport, Cincinnati-Xenia, Indianapolis-Stubenville routes. The St Louis to Pittsburg line had cab signals from Indianapolis East to Pittsburg. Cincy-Xenia had standard ABS as did Cincy-Richmond. Richmond-Logansport was dark with Train Order rules but there were offices and interlockings at frequent intervals. But track was poor.
My experience at 90 mph was on a trip that I requested to "familiarize" myself to the Region. It was an all day trip Cincinnati-Logansport-Indianapolis-Stubenville-Cincinnati. In cab Cincy to Logansport and Indy to Stubenville and sleeper back to Cincinnati. On the Indianapolis to Stubenville portion, Cab signals were in operation and on much of the route, speeds of 90mph were reached. East of Richmond, we had fog and all we could see was the headlight reflecting off the fog. Had some angst over what we could not see and hoped that no poor soul was where they should be. (on the ROW) and fortunately we ran out of the fog and arrived Dayton. I love the way E units rode. On the times I rode coach on the Logansport, the old coaches danced on the jointed rail but the E's left me with the impression that a gymnast could do a handstand in the ccab and have no problems.
LAWRENCE SMITH Electroliner, where in the late 50s could you run an E unit at 90 on the PRR? I assume not under catenary so somewhere W of Harrisburg?
Electroliner, where in the late 50s could you run an E unit at 90 on the PRR? I assume not under catenary so somewhere W of Harrisburg?
zardozExcitement in Mookie's area!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
tree68A 567 in notch 8 isn't exactly the quietest thing...
Back in the late fifties, On the PRR at 90 mph, on an E8, the "facilities" are on the engineers side in front of the steam generator and near the end of the 2nd 567. They didn't have hearing protection back then. But it would have been helpful. But when you have to, you...
Electroliner 1935Larry's passengers could do the same. But I think it would be severely frowned upon.
We frown on our own people doing it...
It can be disconcerting to have the door of an F unit open behind you as you're running at track speed... Of course, if you're the one coming through the door, you'd best have your hearing protection in place. A 567 in notch 8 isn't exactly the quietest thing...
mudchicken Alternate news source says he dumped the air from the trailing unit. Trying to make sure he was locked up safely before the cat got em? Kinda hard to get to StL on #6.
Alternate news source says he dumped the air from the trailing unit.
Trying to make sure he was locked up safely before the cat got em? Kinda hard to get to StL on #6.
In this day and time, with various 'hijacking situations' being as they are: everything is now couched with 'politica'l motivations. "The Media" being as they are(?)
The story linked here, and some other, 'news articles' out there; is it any wonder that the description of the 'miscreant' who boarded the AMTRAK unit with tin snips, revolver, and extra reloads of ammunition and a breathing mask, ( maybe, was an attempt to 'kitbash' the power on the train).
Lately, news always leaves much to be described? Had it been an American of a description that was ethincally" correct"(?). The description would include EVERYTHING about him[her?] .
The media would be interviewing neighbors, family, school chums, former baby sitters,etc. Checking grades in grade school, and activities in High School. We've seen it too many times, of late....
Where are the unanswered questions ? From 'country of birth', and 'rel...n' ,etc. and on and on. Instead the reportage is sadly lacking; holes and gaps that a stack train could pass through.
I don't know how he could get into more than the trailing unit. And then only if it was facing forward. There is no access from the front of a P42 unit, only the rear. E units had a nose door.
When I rode the Copper Canyon train, we were able to walk through the train and cross over onto the locomotive (while running) and along the side of the locomotive (a GP?) and into the cab. I was somewhat uncomfortable doing it (speed was maybe 30-40 mph) but a missed step... Wife was with me plus two others and our tour guide.
Larry's passengers could do the same. But I think it would be severely frowned upon.
zardoz. I suppose we will soon be seeing locks on locomotives that are lockable from the inside.
We have them. Doesn't everyone?
I'm wondering if he didn't go into a trailing engine.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
OXFORD, Neb. – Authorities say an armed 25-year-old Missouri man managed to get into an Amtrak locomotive and pull the train's emergency brake in southeast Nebraska. The Lincoln Journal Star reports the incident happened on an eastbound California Zephyr train with about 175 people aboard passing near Oxford, Nebraska, about 200 miles (321.85 kilometers) southwest of Omaha. The Furnas County sheriff's office says the man had a loaded .38-caliber revolver in his waist and a speed loader in his pocket. Deputies found three more speed loaders, a box of ammunition, a knife, tin snips and a ventilation mask.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/8853cae9-14eb-31c3-b889-97bf4400819f/ss_armed-man-arrested-after.html
I can just see the guy announce to the Engineer, "Take this train to ______ (insert country here). I suppose we will soon be seeing locks on locomotives that are lockable from the inside. I wonder if the inward-facing camera captured the event.
Excitement in Mookie's area!
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