You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.
I predict that in a few years (except on EHH properties, if he lives that long) kicking cars will be prohibited. The only places a car will be alowed to be cut off and move under it's own momentum will be in hump yards. (Except on EHH properties because they will all be gone, if he lives that long.)
Jeff
Kicking cars is prohibited on the P&W and other G&W properties now.
jeffhergertYou may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same. I predict that in a few years (except on EHH properties, if he lives that long) kicking cars will be prohibited. The only places a car will be alowed to be cut off and move under it's own momentum will be in hump yards. (Except on EHH properties because they will all be gone, if he lives that long.) Jeff
On the ground railroading is one of those things that when viewed from the 'outside' looks to be so easy even a caveman could do it with minimal instruction.
When you actually do it, it isn't anywhere near that easy.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
jeffhergertYou may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.
My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.
EuclidMy familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.
Really...?
"Participate", how?
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Yeah - I've watched it done, too.
For that matter, I've watched a "Dutch Drop..."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Euclid jeffhergert You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same. My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.
jeffhergert You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I kicked cars in the really old days, pre RP-25 trucks, when they wouldn't roll worth anything.
However, I also pulled pins on hundreds of kicks, and know of those hills of which Zardoz speaks. Pulled thousands of pins on those, too, before I went downhill.(For the record, Larry, I've participated in a Dutch Drop from all three positions: pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying 'em down...but not too quickly!)Now, I have a question: If the railroad is now allowing the getting on and off moving equipment after an absence of, say, ten or twelve years (I think that's about right), are they training all of the employees that didn't receive such training when they hired out? I know that I spent a good half day doing nothing but during my training, and that I learned plenty, even though I had "participated" in such things for years beforehand.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Did your toe hurt afterwards?
cx500 Euclid jeffhergert You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same. My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. Did your toe hurt afterwards? Good one. Bucky's BS strikes again.
Good one. Bucky's BS strikes again.
Norm
CShaveRRI kicked cars in the really old days, pre RP-25 trucks, when they wouldn't roll worth anything. However, I also pulled pins on hundreds of kicks, and know of those hills of which Zardoz speaks. Pulled thousands of pins on those, too, before I went downhill.(For the record, Larry, I've participated in a Dutch Drop from all three positions: pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying 'em down...but not too quickly!)Now, I have a question: If the railroad is now allowing the getting on and off moving equipment after an absence of, say, ten or twelve years (I think that's about right), are they training all of the employees that didn't receive such training when they hired out? I know that I spent a good half day doing nothing but during my training, and that I learned plenty, even though I had "participated" in such things for years beforehand.
Surprised that old EHH isn't out there training the trainers how to mount and dismount moving equipment - that would be leadership! Of course the oxygen tank and hose might complicate things a bit.[/sarcasm]
This explanation is from a letter sent by the union:
“These leads involve an uphill movement where the engineers must get the engines up to 7 or 8 throttle to move up the hill and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour sometimes. It has been nearly impossible to pull the pins at a walking speed per the rules due to the terrain.”
Here is the part I don’t understand:
“…and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour…”
Why does the trainman wait until the cut is rolling 6 or 7 mph before pulling the pin?
Normally, when the slack runs out, the kick is ending, and the pin has been pulled much earlier. The slack is running out because the engine brakes have been applied to stop the cut and let the kicked cars go.
Euclid jeffhergert My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.
jeffhergert
OK, that does it.
I want confirmation -- when, where, how, and all the other relevant details -- about your participating in it.
That's not a vague question about 'credentials'; it's a direct request for a claim you have made personally, asserting personal experience.
RME Euclid jeffhergert My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. OK, that does it. I want confirmation -- when, where, how, and all the other relevant details -- about your participating in it. That's not a vague question about 'credentials'; it's a direct request for a claim you have made personally, asserting personal experience.
I am only asking a question about the meaning of the charge made by the union against CSX. Instead of getting an answer, I get indignation for asking the question. I am told I need real world experience to understand the answer. I say I have real world experience, and I get more indignation. I am told I am not believed. I would think that you of all people would see through what is happening here. But no. You join right in and raise the level of indignation with a demand PROOF of experience. It does not take a genius to see where this leads. There is no end to the tactics for discrediting a question that has an uncomfortable answer.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with 'discrediting' any question, uncomfortable answer or otherwise. You have made weird allegations about how cars are kicked uphill, and attempted to justify these with a claim of firsthand experience doing so.
We want to know what that experience is, in some detail, to understand better what the actual question is vs. what you say you know. As I pointed out earlier, I'm in the forefront of defending random calls for 'credentials' when not relevant to the issue at hand. Here, it's more than critical for you to provide them.
Yes, Euclid, can you tell us just what your experience in kicking cars is? Or, are you ashamed of how you gained the experience?
I can say that I did various things concerning freight operations through the sufferance of railroad employees who knew me. In past posts I have given some of the details, for I am not ashamed of what I did.
I am willing to take the statements of railroad employees who are familiar with whatever topic is under discussion as factual and not argue with them.
Just what are your credentials?
Johnny
RMEYou have made weird allegations about how cars are kicked uphill, and attempted to justify these with a claim of firsthand experience doing so.
I have done no such thing. The allegations about the current practice by CSX of kicking cars uphill, and difficulties of performing this move were made by the representatives of the SMART union. I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill. What “weird allegations” are you referring to? Please explain what you characterize as “weird allegations.”
Euclid - Mon Aug 28 10:25 AM I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill.
Euclid - Sat Aug 6 7:32pmMy familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.
And you wonder why I am exasperated with this?
Tell you what -- you explain what your participation in kicking cars is, and I'll explain what I characterize as weird allegations. In fact, I expect that some others here will explain what they characterize as weird allegations.
But you don't get to play the constant-objection disinformation game any more: you made a statement of competence, and I expect you to justify it and not pretend you didn't make it.
Euclid I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill.
Maybe not up hill, but you have claimed firsthand experience kicking cars:
Nice try with the deflection by qualifying the statement.
What pretty much everyone on the forum is the basis of that familiarity. We don't care about uphill, downhill, sideways, or anything else. We want you to tell us about this:
Nothing more, nothing less.
If you are not willing to share that information, then it simply didn't happen, and your credibility takes yet another hit.
RME Euclid - Mon Aug 28 10:25 AM I have never "claimed firsthand experience," as you say, about kicking cars uphill. Euclid - Sat Aug 6 7:32pm My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it. And you wonder why I am exasperated with this? Tell you what -- you explain what your participation in kicking cars is, and I'll explain what I characterize as weird allegations. In fact, I expect that some others here will explain what they characterize as weird allegations. But you don't get to play the constant-objection disinformation game any more: you made a statement of competence, and I expect you to justify it and not pretend you didn't make it.
Euclid - Sat Aug 6 7:32pm My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it.
You refer to what I said as a “statement of competence” as though it were some type of legal claim that requires full proof that the claim is not fraudulent. I think this reaction is a little silly.
I am not pretending I did not make the statement, as you imply.
Yes I made the statement that I have participated in the practice of kicking cars; but only because I was asked this question by Jeff:
"You may be "familiar" with the practice. Have you ever actually participated in the practice? Just watching or reading about something isn't the same."
I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement.
Liars sware to the truth - it's what they do!
EuclidI answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement.
I was just curious in what capacity. Only reason being your description and questions allude to your participation being in a non-hands on sort of way.
But honestly, I really don't need an answer. Wasn't really expecitng one anyhow.
Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics.
Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question.
Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert.
tree68 Euclid I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement. Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics. Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question. Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert.
Euclid I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement.
Whether or not I am an expert has nothing to do with the points I have made here. I have posed some very clearly stated questions, and the hostile reaction and utter refusal to address those questions is obviously to discredit my questions almost as if I am questioning a religious authority, and that alone is not permitted. It is a childish reaction.
Here is another honest and fair question for all of you who kick cars:
From the union letter:
What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph?
Euclid tree68 Euclid I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement. Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics. Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question. Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert. Whether or not I am an expert has nothing to do with the points I have made here. I have posed some very clearly stated questions, and the hostile reaction and utter refusal to address those questions is obviously to discredit my questions almost as if I am questioning a religious authority, and that alone is not permitted. It is a childish reaction. Here is another honest and fair question for all of you who kick cars: From the union letter: “These leads involve an uphill movement where the engineers must get the engines up to 7 or 8 throttle to move up the hill and by the time the cut is rolling and the slack is running out, the trainman pulling the pins is basically running around 6 or 7 miles per hour sometimes. It has been nearly impossible to pull the pins at a walking speed per the rules due to the terrain.” What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph?
If you don't know the answer to your question you have NEVER been involved in the process of kicking cars in switching operations, despite any statements you make to the contrary. If you had been involved in kicking cars you would know the answer.
You posts indicate you are the worst kind of internet troll - 'The Expert' that knows nothing.
EuclidWhat is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph?
You say you have experience - you should be able to figure that out yourself.
tree68 Euclid What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph? You say you have experience - you should be able to figure that out yourself.
Euclid What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph?
My experience is that if the terrain is hard to walk on, it gets harder if I walk faster.
"Participating" in something means (not just suggests) first hand experience in the something, not observing it. If I say I participated in a football game, it means I played in it, not just watched as a spectator in the stands or on TV.
Euclid, you are the one who said "My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it."
Unless you can give specifics as to where, when and in what capacity you participated, it will be apparent to all that you tripped yourself up finally in your little word games and exposed yourself as a fraud.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm "Participating" in something means (not just suggests) first hand experience in the something, not observing it. If I say I participated in a football game, it means I played in it, not just watched as a spectator in the stands or on TV. Euclid, you are the one who said "My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it." Unless you can give specifics as to where, when and in what capacity you participated, it will be apparent to all that you tripped yourself up finally in your little word games and exposed yourself as a fraud.
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