tree68 Still waiting for an answer to our question...
Still waiting for an answer to our question...
I hope you brought a large supply of groceries.
Norm
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Where the letter says, “It has been nearly impossible to pull the pins at a walking speed per the rules due to the terrain,” I interpreted that to mean that rough terrain presented a poor walking surface.
But now I suspect he is using the word “terrain” to again refer to the uphill grade of the lead and the resulting need to kick faster to get the cars to their destination. This would match the description given earlier where he actually referred to the uphill problem. With this explanation, the difficulty in pulling pins (or holding them up) at walking speed, as he said, was due the fact that much of the kick was above walking speed.
So there were three problems with the work procedure as explained in the letter. One was the need for extra kick speed, another the other was working side by side with another job kicking cars, and the third was the darkness caused by the eclipse. I have not found any reference as to how these conditions caused the accident.
If it was due to tripping and falling while to needing to run while holding the pin up, then it raises the question of why the employees were allowed to engage in this obviously unsafe practice as a working routine. What would have happened if the employee refused to do that because it is a rules violation? I guess we will learn the cause of the accident in about two months after the federal investigation is complete. I cannot think of another incident like this where blame is formally alleged and published prior to the investigation.
jeffhergert We watched the "Archie Bunker" safety film in new-hire class. I wonder if they still show it (doubtful) since so much of the once normal practices are now prohibited.
We watched the "Archie Bunker" safety film in new-hire class. I wonder if they still show it (doubtful) since so much of the once normal practices are now prohibited.
I watched it, and am told that it is still shown to new hires around here. Not sure if this is company-sanctioned, or if the instructors are just having a bit of fun.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Archie must be a professional stunt man judging by the way he dodges trouble.
DeggestyWas that our friend sitting on top of the boxcar near the beginning and in the door at the end, saying nothing?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Was that our friend sitting on top of the boxcar near the beginning and in the door at the end, saying nothing?
Johnny
Youtube has many of these, and older, safety and promotional films. (On the Model Railroader Prototype Information for the modeler section there is a link to a 1940s era GN safety film. It shows kicking and dropping cars.) I like watching the old films. My how things, just the practices alone, have changed.
Jeff
I am thinking Euc may have a non-speaking part in this video
I'm probably dreaming, but maybe he finally comprehended the meaning of the adage "It is better to stay quiet and be thought to be a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it".
Deggesty Norm48327 tree68 And you know, Bucky, that every time you deflect, delay, or otherwise not answer the question, your credibility goes just that much further into the toilet. Crickets. Yes, it is just like an August night with the windows open.
Norm48327 tree68 And you know, Bucky, that every time you deflect, delay, or otherwise not answer the question, your credibility goes just that much further into the toilet. Crickets.
tree68 And you know, Bucky, that every time you deflect, delay, or otherwise not answer the question, your credibility goes just that much further into the toilet.
And you know, Bucky, that every time you deflect, delay, or otherwise not answer the question, your credibility goes just that much further into the toilet.
Crickets.
Yes, it is just like an August night with the windows open.
Euclid schlimm "Participating" in something means (not just suggests) first hand experience in the something, not observing it. If I say I participated in a football game, it means I played in it, not just watched as a spectator in the stands or on TV. Euclid, you are the one who said "My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it." Unless you can give specifics as to where, when and in what capacity you participated, it will be apparent to all that you tripped yourself up finally in your little word games and exposed yourself as a fraud. I know what participating means. I used the word to mean actually doing it and not just watching it. I did not trip myself up. I meant exactly what I said. Why such bitter incredulity? If it becomes apparent to you or anyone else that my failing to prove this claim to your satisfaction proves it is untrue, well then you will have been deluded my friend.
schlimm "Participating" in something means (not just suggests) first hand experience in the something, not observing it. If I say I participated in a football game, it means I played in it, not just watched as a spectator in the stands or on TV. Euclid, you are the one who said "My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it." Unless you can give specifics as to where, when and in what capacity you participated, it will be apparent to all that you tripped yourself up finally in your little word games and exposed yourself as a fraud.
"Participating" in something means (not just suggests) first hand experience in the something, not observing it. If I say I participated in a football game, it means I played in it, not just watched as a spectator in the stands or on TV.
Euclid, you are the one who said "My familiarity with kicking cars came from participating in it."
Unless you can give specifics as to where, when and in what capacity you participated, it will be apparent to all that you tripped yourself up finally in your little word games and exposed yourself as a fraud.
I know what participating means. I used the word to mean actually doing it and not just watching it. I did not trip myself up. I meant exactly what I said. Why such bitter incredulity?
If it becomes apparent to you or anyone else that my failing to prove this claim to your satisfaction proves it is untrue, well then you will have been deluded my friend.
When? Where? For whom? Under what circumstances? All are reasonable questions, any one or two of which could easily be answered if you weren't hiding something.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Euclid, why are you so reluctant to tell the rest of us where your hands-on experience was?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
RMEJust as I think crawfishing after having made a definitive statement is a lot silly. This is America and you're entitled to think what you want. But don't go pretending you can claim to have done something which some of your other statements frankly shout you haven't and not expect to be asked to substantiate your claim.
He'll never admit to chronic prevarication. Perhaps his screen name should be Odysseus, who was always stretching the truth. Or even better, Munchausen (with one 'h' the fictional character) who made up absurd stories.
edblysardThe very first day, the very first thing taught to us was getting on and off moving equipment.
May not have been the first day, but it was early on, when I learned how to do so, along with the admonition, "don't do this..." Our rules still prohibit the practice.
CShaveRR I kicked cars in the really old days, pre RP-25 trucks, when they wouldn't roll worth anything. However, I also pulled pins on hundreds of kicks, and know of those hills of which Zardoz speaks. Pulled thousands of pins on those, too, before I went downhill.(For the record, Larry, I've participated in a Dutch Drop from all three positions: pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying 'em down...but not too quickly!)Now, I have a question: If the railroad is now allowing the getting on and off moving equipment after an absence of, say, ten or twelve years (I think that's about right), are they training all of the employees that didn't receive such training when they hired out? I know that I spent a good half day doing nothing but during my training, and that I learned plenty, even though I had "participated" in such things for years beforehand.
I kicked cars in the really old days, pre RP-25 trucks, when they wouldn't roll worth anything.
However, I also pulled pins on hundreds of kicks, and know of those hills of which Zardoz speaks. Pulled thousands of pins on those, too, before I went downhill.(For the record, Larry, I've participated in a Dutch Drop from all three positions: pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying 'em down...but not too quickly!)Now, I have a question: If the railroad is now allowing the getting on and off moving equipment after an absence of, say, ten or twelve years (I think that's about right), are they training all of the employees that didn't receive such training when they hired out? I know that I spent a good half day doing nothing but during my training, and that I learned plenty, even though I had "participated" in such things for years beforehand.
Once you learn how,it is so much more easy than standing equipment....we were told if we couldn't manage it, we couldn't work here.
23 17 46 11
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/171032.aspx?page=1
When I was a kid, our next door neighbor was EE & Nuclear Engineer for Westinghouse and had participated in the Bikini Atoll A-Bomb tests.
He called my father over to install a light switch - the man was a theoretical genius but a practical idiot.
tree68 Euclid I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement. Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics. Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question. Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert.
Euclid I answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement.
Yeah - And I saw a nuclear explosion first-hand once - so I'm qualified to speak with authority on nuclear physics.
Just once, Bucky, answer the danged question.
Otherwise you're just a poser who wants people to think they're an expert.
I watched a porno once....
EuclidI answered the question in his terms, saying I have participated in the practice. That is a true statement.
Good. Where did you participate, and when? That will get the true statement's truth rolling.
You refer to what I said as a “statement of competence” as though it were some type of legal claim that requires full proof that the claim is not fraudulent.
"Statement of competence" means you were competent to participate in the activity of kicking cars. Since you say that your participating in kicking cars is a true statement you can't have an argument with that. Can you? (It was not intended to mean well-trained or professional, so we can stay off that particular red herring, let alone get into pseudodefinitions of a 'legalism' I can clearly state I did not intend.)
I think this reaction is a little silly.
Just as I think crawfishing after having made a definitive statement is a lot silly. This is America and you're entitled to think what you want. But don't go pretending you can claim to have done something which some of your other statements frankly shout you haven't and not expect to be asked to substantiate your claim.
In the interests of fair disclosure: I have never kicked cars in a yard, uphill or otherwise, and this despite having done some very serious analysis of what is required for hybrid locomotives to kick cars effectively, and how to determine the right use of throttle and brake regardless of terrain to kick a known car effectively in a known yard. Yes, I regard that lack of practical experience as a shortcoming. And no, I won't pretend to having firsthand knowledge despite understanding the physics and kinesiology involved very well.
tree68 Euclid What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph? You say you have experience - you should be able to figure that out yourself.
Euclid What is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph?
You say you have experience - you should be able to figure that out yourself.
My experience is that if the terrain is hard to walk on, it gets harder if I walk faster.
EuclidWhat is it about the terrain that makes it “nearly impossible to pull pins at walking speed,” but allows pins to be pulled more easily at 6 or 7 mph?
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