UlrichOne person crews ..hell yeah! Change will occur over which we have no control. So we may as well go into this with a positive attitude.
Aaaahhhh NO
Trucks are what....100ft or less depending on the type of rig,trains can be up to 12,000 feet long and several thousand more tons heavy.Trucks and trains are apples and oranges when it comes to this type of discussion.
Even with all the new technology being introduced, Leader System,ATC and eventually TTC there's just too much going on ahead and definitely behind you when running a train.
Collin ,operator of the " Eastern Kentucky & Ohio R.R."
Hell yeah, I may be out of a job!!!!!
You do realize that while trains are a hobby or academic interest to some, it is a lifestyle and paycheck to others? So yeah, I may take some of this stuff personal, but that is because it is personal. I think some people on this site forget that at times.
I have a little under 10 years in this industry with at least 30 more to go. I like railroading, but sometimes I don't know anymore.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Ulrich:
I bear you no ill will, but your assurances don't put food on the table, nor do they put a mortgage check in the mail. It's true that many people land on their feet after this type of social dislocation, but it's also true that many don't. The reasons can be manifold: native ability; geographical location; who you know; inborn adaptability; education; etc. etc. etc.
Actually, this issue, while very important, is secondary to the issues of safety and practicality which have been pretty thoroughly discussed here. Change, in and of itself, isn't necessarily good or bad. It's neutral. The main issue is whether this specific change --- a one-man crew --- is a good idea. The practicing railroaders I know are pretty wary of this particular change, and for reasons far more serious than their own narrow interests regarding job security.
I've been on passenger trains that have been stopped for significant periods of time due to "computer problems", poor communications with the dispatcher, false indications from defect detectors, and many similar problems that result from a reliance on technology. Removing human involvement one more degree makes me very uncomfortable. One of these days, I suppose we'll have midair collisions between railroad conductor drones, police drones, and media drones. Maybe the sky really is the limit.
Progress is always change, but change is not always progress.
No argument there. But the original question had to do with whether this particular operational change is for the better or for the worse. I don't have to worry about it any more because I just retired & won't be spending much of my time on the railroad. But then again, there's that NS mainline that runs about 100 yards behind my house................
1. Railroad management is driven by profit. Most of the railroaders applaud that goal when discussing regulations, restrictions, transport of hazardous and inflammable substances, railroad crossings, hosting Amtrak, etc. Only when it pertains to job security do we hear a different tune, understandably.
2. Management obviously sees cutting labor costs as the easiest avenue to greater profits.
3. Most of the objections to elimination of conductors here are framed with the same arguments that failed when cutting firemen and other crews were proposed in prior decades.
3. One-man crews have been and continue to be routinely used in other countries, on both freight and passenger services, on lines with much greater traffic density and closer headway. Ditto with their equivalents to PTC. Their safety record is comparable or better.
4. As others, such as Ulrich, have said, the changes are coming. Embracing and adjusting to the inevitable is a much better adaptation than hunkering down with a siege mentality.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm 1. Railroad management is driven by profit. Most of the railroaders applaud that goal when discussing regulations, restrictions, transport of hazardous and inflammable substances, railroad crossings, hosting Amtrak, etc. Only when it pertains to job security do we hear a different tune, understandably. 2. Management obviously sees cutting labor costs as the easiest avenue to greater profits. 3. Most of the objections to elimination of conductors here are framed with the same arguments that failed when cutting firemen and other crews were proposed in prior decades. 3. One-man crews have been and continue to be routinely used in other countries, on both freight and passenger services, on lines with much greater traffic density and closer headway. Ditto with their equivalents to PTC. Their safety record is comparable or better. 4. As others, such as Ulrich, have said, the changes are coming. Embracing and adjusting to the inevitable is a much better adaptation than hunkering down with a siege mentality.
Yes! I am going to embrace that blocked road crossing with the 9000+ foot train that is in emergency with the 'master conductor' position that was blanked beacuse there was no one on the board.
Question - in other countries are they operating 9000+ foot trains & 20000 ton trains through populated areas with US style road crossing density?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD schlimm 1. Railroad management is driven by profit. Most of the railroaders applaud that goal when discussing regulations, restrictions, transport of hazardous and inflammable substances, railroad crossings, hosting Amtrak, etc. Only when it pertains to job security do we hear a different tune, understandably. 2. Management obviously sees cutting labor costs as the easiest avenue to greater profits. 3. Most of the objections to elimination of conductors here are framed with the same arguments that failed when cutting firemen and other crews were proposed in prior decades. 3. One-man crews have been and continue to be routinely used in other countries, on both freight and passenger services, on lines with much greater traffic density and closer headway. Ditto with their equivalents to PTC. Their safety record is comparable or better. 4. As others, such as Ulrich, have said, the changes are coming. Embracing and adjusting to the inevitable is a much better adaptation than hunkering down with a siege mentality. Yes! I am going to embrace that blocked road crossing with the 9000+ foot train that is in emergency with the 'master conductor' position that was blanked beacuse there was no one on the board. Question - in other countries are they operating 9000+ foot trains & 20000 ton trains through populated areas with US style road crossing density?
Johnny
I don;t have actual stats handy but CN has run some coal/ grain trains to Prince Rupert that are 230+ cars and are 32,000- 34,000 tons. Sidings are approx 12,000 feet.
UlrichIt may not have occurred to you because no one anywhere has proposed running one person crews at CSX or even in the east. People get all worked up because they jump to conclusions.
If one railroad finds that they can lower costs doing something, chances are that the other railroads won't be far behind.
NorthWestUlrichIt may not have occurred to you because no one anywhere has proposed running one person crews at CSX or even in the east. People get all worked up because they jump to conclusions. If one railroad finds that they can lower costs doing something, chances are that the other railroads won't be far behind.
Good read on how the rank and file union members fill about this.
http://www.galesburg.com/article/20140723/NEWS/140729876
As I and Ulrich and others have said, change is coming. It won't be fast and initially just the conductors will be affected gradually spreading to the other lines. Engineers? Who knows, but I don't see many driverless trains anywhere soon. So there really is no more cause for their alarm now than 30 years ago, etc.
Farther down the track I expect we will see the RoWs purchased by the government to modernize and upgrade. Freight lines will become contracting operators as in many other countries.
Ever since the diesel fireman dispute and maybe even before that, labor unions have always come out looking bad on work-rules issues. To the public at large, unions look like they are trying to protect jobs that are no longer necessary or have been eliminated by technology.
Just curious. Did the NS job notification include the line "Must have CDL"?
Enquiring minds want to know.
UlrichThe trucking industry is always hiring... always looking for good people. It's been that way since 1988 at least, the year I got into it. Lots of opportunities for drivers and non-drivers alike. If you believe you may be cut then take a look a my industry as a fallback.. you've got options.
Yeah ,they'll always need drivers to shuffle containers around the inter-modal yard's when the tonnage to fuel ratio is too much for the trucking industry to deal with.
I thought this was a site called TRAINS not TRUCKS
Used to be, you could identify a Conductor by his ticket punch and his Hamilton. Maybe in the New Order, the hallmark will be a set of pickup truck ignition keys.
A railroad "conductor" telling the robot with human intelligence replacing him a story 40 years from now ,"Yeah son..I can remember when we used keys to start a vehicle to drive around to do our job,because we couldn't do everything from this desk....imagine that,we had to get up from this desk to do our job,yeah them were the days....Oh and before we started population reduction we had a reason to have Engineer's and conductor's....well ones that had to eat."
You know this is why myself and the other railroaders on here get in a fighting mood when those that think it's great or it's just gonna happen anyway accept it.
Well with almost 25 years on the job,having what seems like a career and not just a job seemingly at a few peoples disposal makes you sick.
And guess what.If companies and the people running them thinks this is gong to be the norm,they best remember their a number also.Less employees to manage,equates to less mangers to mange them ,kinda redundant isn't it.
In the future, will robots hire out on the railroad because of "The Romance of the Rails"? The visceral excitement that gets the ol' hydraulic fluid pumping?
mackb4 A railroad "conductor" telling the robot with human intelligence replacing him a story 40 years from now ,"Yeah son..I can remember when we used keys to start a vehicle to drive around to do our job,because we couldn't do everything from this desk....imagine that,we had to get up from this desk to do our job,yeah them were the days....Oh and before we started population reduction we had a reason to have Engineer's and conductor's....well ones that had to eat." You know this is why myself and the other railroaders on here get in a fighting mood when those that think it's great or it's just gonna happen anyway accept it. Well with almost 25 years on the job,having what seems like a career and not just a job seemingly at a few peoples disposal makes you sick. And guess what.If companies and the people running them thinks this is gong to be the norm,they best remember their a number also.Less employees to manage,equates to less mangers to mange them ,kinda redundant isn't it.
Uhhhhh.
You do realize the CDL and robot comments were just to inject a bit of levity, don't you?
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