lone geep Hello again, I've been reading some old railroad magazines from the 90's and there is an article by a railroader who explained "derail insurance" and recounted the times he used it. From what I saw Derail Insurance was (or is) something bought from the union that a railroader can claim if he is suspended for awhile over a minor rules violation. Is there still a thing as "derail insurance'?
Hello again,
I've been reading some old railroad magazines from the 90's and there is an article by a railroader who explained "derail insurance" and recounted the times he used it. From what I saw Derail Insurance was (or is) something bought from the union that a railroader can claim if he is suspended for awhile over a minor rules violation. Is there still a thing as "derail insurance'?
Around my carrier it is called 'Job Insurance'. There are several companies that offer it.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Lone Geep
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As a onetime teacher who started railroading at 31 years old and with a master's degree, I suggest hiring out first instead of going to college. Seniority is everything on the railroad; the more you have, the happier you'll be. If you decide you don't like it and want to go to college, you'll have made some good money to help pay for college in the meantime.
Now happily retired and with a good Railroad Retirement pension (the best retirement plan a working man can have today in the US), I'm very glad I stuck it out and stayed railroading.
lone geep Thank you all. As for a trade, there is a trade school close by that offers courses where the apprentice hours are completed in the school shop. Another question. If you are too sick to work safely, do they accomodate those as well or are you shown the door?
Thank you all. As for a trade, there is a trade school close by that offers courses where the apprentice hours are completed in the school shop. Another question. If you are too sick to work safely, do they accomodate those as well or are you shown the door?
We work and are protected under this act, FMLA.
You must first use up any sick time,vacation time and personal leave time for this to kick in.
23 17 46 11
Talking about the major, unionized carriers if a railroader gets sick or injured (does not have to be railroad related) and will be unable to work for a few months, they can take a Leave of Absence. It protects your seniority while you're off work. We have a few guys in that status right now.
I would think the non-union short lines, or most employers in any industry, would work with someone with a long term illness or injury. (I'm sure there are some that won't, but I would like to think they would be in the minority.) Especially if you have been a good and reliable employee.
Ulrich, in many locations in the US, employment is considered "at-will" and you can be dismissed for anything except for certain reasons that are protected by law. Unless you are protected by an employment contract that spells out reasons for dismissal. There was a case in Iowa a while back where a woman was fired literately because of the way she looked. She worked for a doctor/dentist and the doc's wife thought she was too good looking, too much of a temptation for the doc. The woman applied for and was ultimately denied unemployment benefits because of the way Iowa law reads. It was appealed and I don't know if it's been settled yet or not.
If you're sick a day or two with the flu, they won't fire you. That's assuming you're over your probation period and you aren't "sick" too often or every weekend and holiday.
Jeff
I don't think any employer would show you the door for having the sniffles. Even if they wanted to, there are laws that govern how and when and why an employer can fire someone.
I'm thinking along the lines of a bout of the common flu with the effects of drowsiness, stuffed nose and weakness, that would blow over in a day or two.
lone geepIf you are too sick to work safely, do they accomodate those as well or are you shown the door?
Boots on the ground railroading requires a certain amount of physical ability - even getting on a locomotive requires one to be able to climb a bit, never mind all the walking and other climbing that is required.
A key to your question is the duration of your illness. A secondary question is the severity of your illness.
If you're going to be out for some limited amount of time (perhaps even some illness or injury that requires several months to recover from), I'd imagine most companies will still have your job for you when you get back, assuming you are able to perform it. Or not.
If you are no longer able to perform the job, the railroad may try to find a position that you can handle (ie, perhaps a desk job, if you are otherwise qualified and one is available). But there's no guarantee of that, either (unless it's in the contract).
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Ulrich I think I know the answer to this one: short term they'll work with you (depending on your affliction of course), but anything chronic or long term and you're gone!
I think I know the answer to this one: short term they'll work with you (depending on your affliction of course), but anything chronic or long term and you're gone!
Not always. There's many guys out here that are fighting things like cancer. They still have jobs, even if they have to be off for long periods of time.
It's the healthy people that mark off "sick" every weekend that usually are disciplined for attendance. Of course the guys/gals that have serious medical problems also have the medical records/visits/details to prove it.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
lone geep If you are too sick to work safely, do they accomodate those as well or are you shown the door? Ulrich I think I know the answer to this one: short term they'll work with you (depending on your affliction of course), but anything chronic or long term and you're gone!
If you are too sick to work safely, do they accomodate those as well or are you shown the door?
I seriously doubt that railroads, as an industry, are any more or less tolerant of incapacitating illnesses. This is more a matter of each company's management policies.
I'm retired now but I can honestly say that every company I ever worked for in 40+ years (and there were too many) bent over backward to accommodate those who were incapacitated. In fact, I often thought they went a little too far for the good of the company and other workers This was true for both railroads and other companies (never worked for government except the military)..
This is not to say that malingerers aren't shown the door, as you put it, but do you want to work with someone who could be taking money out of your pocket and / or endangering your safety by not doing his job to the best of his ability?
ChuckAllen, TX
No matter what profession you chose, you should always have a back up skill(s). 50 years ago when I worked on the PENN RR a lot of the local brakemen and other yard men had back up professions. As far as being a railroader goes you have to expect changes but if you like trains you will be one of the lucky ones in that you will love your work and it will never really be work, good luck.
All good advice, Geep, some better than others but all good ... particularly those recommending as much education as you can handle before and after starting a railroad career.
But I'd take the bit about rail fans not making good railroaders with a grain of salt. Let me illustrate that with a story from a few years ago. I was in a meeting where my boss at the time, the Assistant Vice President of Operating Administration, announced the end of all NYC passenger service west of Buffalo (this was just before Amtrak) and there would be no more Twentieth Century Limited. His exact words,"We will NOT have a moments silence for the Century's passing", were followed by him taking a long, slow sip of water.
Uncle Bob, as we called him, was as much or more a rail fan as the rest of us and I'd say he was fairly successful at it.
By the way, he was a Transportation Engineering graduate of the University of Illinois. And now you know why the NYC's Empire Service colors were Illini orange and blue.
I went to work for BN right out of college back in 1972. I ended up working in Coal Operations where my boss and I followed the1st train out of the Belle Ayr mine destined for PSC at Pueblo. At Alliance, a couple of rail fans from Denver to snap pics. The cars on the 110 car train were brand new. One of the rail fans asked me why the cars were not lined up in consecutive order. After all, if the cars were lined up consecutively, it would make for a better picture. I walked away. To get a trade such as an electrician or plumber, you have to apprentice. Apprenticeships can take 4 years to complete and schooling is needed. If you are serious about a trade, try carpentry by working with a reputable builder or a roofing contractor. You will be on the extra board for quite a while and that is a tough place to be if you want a relationship with a the person of your dreams. That person has to be very understanding. You'll end up working on most if not all of the major holidays.
On the flip side, the work is generally good if not great. It is kind of like being a cop. You will have lots of work hours where you are not challenged (boring?) and a few hours of pure adrenalin type excitement. You always have to pay attention to what you are doing and heed the rule that states "when in doubt, take the safe course". I would recommend that you sign on with a Class I, not a tourist outfit as the rail fan in you will blossom. This is a potential career for you and approach it like a professional should!
ChuckCobleigh NKP guy And as a plumber once told me, "There're only two things to remember: water goes downhill, and don't chew your nails." Except it's not all water.
NKP guy And as a plumber once told me, "There're only two things to remember: water goes downhill, and don't chew your nails."
And as a plumber once told me, "There're only two things to remember: water goes downhill, and don't chew your nails."
Except it's not all water.
I was told 3 things about plumbing:
Effluent goes down.
Stink goes up.
Get paid on Friday.
With electrical and plumbing knowledge, you might have an easier time getting into the mechanical department. Still get to work on trains, much more of a set schedule and location of work and so forth.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
Family Emergencys are accomodated - but - that doesn't mean that when the emergency happens and you are in the middle of nowhere that a helicopter will be dispatched to get you home.
Thank you all for your advice. So far, I think I will be get my plumbing and my electrician ticket before trying out on the railroad. I do have a few more questions though. If a relative was dying, would the crew caller say something to the effect of "Too bad, so sad, get back to work." or is there an allowance for family emergencies?
tree68 I have, however, heard it suggested that one not let on about their involvement with tourist lines, exactly for that "foamer" aspect.
I have, however, heard it suggested that one not let on about their involvement with tourist lines, exactly for that "foamer" aspect.
It really funny how that works actually. I have had yardmasters tell me my guys are more professional and on the rules than his guys are! I run what I would guess is one of the bigger tourist railroads in the US as far as equipment, crew, and trackage, and I have to say I really don't have any foamers who volunteer for me. Some of the guys like the history, some of them just think its cool to run trains or whatever but very few are photographing foamer types. Of those that are, they are honestly the most professional guys I have, as they come from jobs such as law enforcement, pipeline companies, environmental cleanup and the big railroads. Some are former air traffic controllers, ministers, construction workers and what have you. They enjoy working on trains (duh!) but I would not call them a foamer. I was chatting with a trainmaster from one of the railroads we operate a small portion on and they were holding us for a train. He made a remark about how our guys must be thrilled to get to see it. I told him the passengers will like it but my guys could care less, they want to get to the depot and have lunch! He was taken aback and I explained we are just like you man... trying to run our train and get home safe and enjoy doing it.
Being a foamer in an interview is not good, but if you have a reasonable explanation "I think trains are interesting but I am more interested in the good paying job and opportunities for advancement" line, your chances should be fine.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Trade school or college - teach the basics. They indicate to the employer that you are trainable, if you complete either course of study it shows that you have had the follow through to obtain the goal you set for yourself. If you are trainable you can get hired and be trained in the practices that the hiring company wants you to follow. Once hired to any job in any profession - your mileage may vary!
Things change over time. Any one in a career, whether it be a railroader, plumber, lawyer, or brain surgeon, is going to have to always learn and keep up with current procedures and practices. If you only know what you knew when you originally completed your training will be unemployable within a few years. (More or less depending on what field you are in. Some fields change faster than others.)
The news is full of reports of people with years of experience in careers with degrees who have trouble finding new jobs because they are viewed as not being up on the latest developments in their field. Especially if they have been out of work longer than a few months.
College degrees are the same. A few years later, and all that knowledge one learns is gone if they don't use it. Trust me, I threw out the textbooks and binders full of work that might as well have been written in Latin, for what I could understand of it a few years later. But need a train switched out and blocked? I'm your man. Of course if I ever try to go into management, I guess that piece of paper in a drawer somewhere would possibly open up a few doors. Who knows why. Seems silly.
PS. I know the OP is from Canada. So maybe it is different up there. I wouldn't know.
Better a college degree than trade school. What you learn in trade school will be outdated in five or ten years...I know people who took four year auto mechanics, photography programs, heavy equipment repair courses back in the 80s.... all of it has long since become useless and outdated. A college degree on the other hand is based on learning a complex subject from basic principles... the laws of physics don't change... so a degree based on the fundamentals will not depreciate. I'd only look at trade school if you're actually going to work in that trade and you're committed to upgrading your skills every few years. Otherwise you may as well learn Latin for all the good it will do you.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
lone geep: If you have any interest in plumbing please check it out. In my area plumbers get treated like brain surgeons (difficult to get a speedy appointment) and seem to be very well paid. They work for themselves or with others in a company, can easily transfer their skills to other states or cities, set their own hours, wear what they like, meet new people daily and go home at night at the same time. And as a plumber once told me, "There're only two things to remember: water goes downhill, and don't chew your nails."
I'd think more than twice about taking a job where I had to curb my enthusiasm for the very things that attracted me to it in the first place. If you were a plumber, you could wholeheartedly embrace your inner railfan, maybe even work on your tourist railroad, and possibly pursue a college degree in the evening. Plus, you would never fear being laid off or out of work.
I think a fellow like you who knows where he is in life, and is considering his life's work, is in an enviable position. There's excellent advice in all the above postings. Best of luck as you discern your future.
I wouldn't say you need to get a degree, but talking about learning a trade such as electrician or plumbing, or some other skill, isn't a bad idea. Not only might it help when things are slack, but also should the railroads ever get around to reducing or eliminating on board crew members. (The railroads employ electricians, mechanics and signal/track maintenance people. Those positions may someday be the bulk of the blue collar work force on railroads. Hopefully, not for another 15 or 20 years though.)
I don't know about other roads, but the UP used to require either a few years work experience or education (not necessarily a degree, but that you were doing something constructive) to be considered. The possibility of hiring out right out of high school may not be possible. At least at some of the class one carriers.
You're young... get the degree if you can. Don't bet your life and career on seniority... lots of people have done that and lost out because things change. Make yourself as valuable as possible and keep your options open. Without a degree you will always march to someone else's drumbeat... with the degree you have many more options.
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