RED MEANS STOP right?

[JoeKoh]

On our way to fostoria we saw a lot of train action on CSX.the train went slowly into a block with double red signals on each side.I am hoping that the signal had a malfunction and they contacted the dispatcher.
stay safe [;)]
joe

[Rick Gates]

Joekoh - Not familiar with the stretch you are refering to however; I might speculate it was a CTC or ABS signal system with rule 261 in effect. Or, they had a train order.

[Anonymous]

Up here, Usually a double Signal Refers to a double Restrictive, indicating the next Signal will be a Tripple Absolute.

I can't rememeber the Rule number of fhand, but if it's a restrictive or a double restrictive signal, and it's indication is red, An ACTUAL STOP at the signal is not required, as long as the signal is passed at 15 MPH, and the engineer is prepared to stop short of any obstruction, break in the Rail, etc...

[Anonymous]

On the Reading, at least on the Commuter lines, a single red meant come to a complete stop, then proceed at restricted speed being ready to stop short of any obstruction. An absolute stop was a triple red.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

If it's not an absolute signal, the train may pass at restricted speed. The signals on the left would be for the left track as you face the signals.

[JoeKoh]

Thanks for the info.Deshler was straight ahead for those guys and it wasnt an absolute it was a block signal.A guy by the name of Dan I met in fostoria said the dispatcher for deshler was pretty busy.I could see that as I crossed the north south tracks in town going to Fostoria.
stay safe
joe

[csxengineer98]

red means stop..at an absolut signal... if a signal has a number plate...G , APP..or any other kind of plate on it..its an intermeadiat...which on CSX the train can pass it at rescricted speed to the next signal...now the only way you can legaly pass an absolut signal that is displaying a stop indictaion on csx...is by permistion of the train dispatcher.... the dispacther can give you a 234-A past the stop signal... which means....befor passing the signal...the train must stop....and then it can proseed at restriced speed to the next signal..or into the yard or what ever the situation might be..
also...keep in mind...left hand signal..left hand track...right hand signal right hand track.... and if a group of signals is on a cantileaver arm over the tracks... the left signal is for the left track...right is for the right track... and if thier is 3 tracks and only 2 signals...thier is a thing that would be to the left or right of the signals called a Doll arm....that tells the train crews what signals are for what track...
hope this helps

[Anonymous]

when I was a signalman on British Railways in the 1960's, a red signal meant STOP-
no ifs or buts, passing that signal without permission could mean suspension(if reported)but some manual sigalboxes(towers) had no electronic detectors and things in the backwoods(branch lines) were kept away from our admin

[Anonymous]

Joe-

Did you have a scanner on?

The DS may very well have been talking that train by the stop signal for any one of a number of reasons.

LC

[JoeKoh]

thanks for the info guys. I need to get a scanner(put it on the list) just from observation a lot of trains were waiting to get through deshler.
stay safe
joe

[csxengineer98]

adams....
thats the same thing here in the US... if you pass an abslulte signal that is displaying a STOP indication... without permision of the train dispatcher.... you are FIRED.....DO NOT PASS GO..DO NOT COLLECT 200 BUCKS...for at least 30 days.... on the rail roads here..... being fired is more or less a suspetntion for what ever time limet the disaplary investication desides it should be.... for your first offence on passing a stop without permison... its normaly 30 days off... but here on CSX...they have started a new policy a few years back....that if you should pass a stop signal without permistion..its 30 days off...and your next office..no matter when it happens in your rail road carrier...is PERMINET DISSMISSAL.....this also aplyes to running a red board at a 707... they lumped it into a cataigory of "occupying main track without permission"....under the critical life rules disiplane policy...
on csx....5 critical life rules are......
occupying main track without permision....( running a red signal..... running a red board at a 707 work order....running a DTC block in dark territory)
blue flags.....( running into a track that is blue flag protected)
for the signal man....failer to maintain crossing warning devices....
and for MOW workers..failer to be use fall protection....(being tied off with a rope to prevent hiting the ground when working above sertain feet)
i forget the last one...but ill look next time i report for duty..lol....
csx engineer

[wcfan4ever]

Thats kinda like an Amtrak train I saw in Elm Grove, WI. It passed a RED doing 50! I check the signals and about 30 seconds later Amtrak came whizzing by on a RED. Didn't have scanner so don't know about how he went about it.

[tree68]

Scanners are good things. Just watch the local laws.

[ironhorseman]

This also should bring up some safety points.

Just because the light is red doesn't mean the train is going to stop or that a train ain't coming. Just look at all the reasons above, things like getting permission or passing at restricted speed. Some other instances may be the engineer wasn't paying attention or there was a mechanical failure in which the train couldn't stop.

My dad and I talk about the trains and he lets me know what he saw and when he saw and all and what colors the signal lights are at times. I try to tell him that just because the light is red doen't mean a train isn't coming. The train could come and stop like I've seen many times before. And for any idiot that thinks they can be on the tracks and be safe just because the signal is red has got another think coming. Just look at all the reasons people posted above. The odds of a train coming and passing a red signal are low, but it still can happen.

[csxengineer98]

that amtrash story brings up another way you can go by a red signal with out stoping ..or even haveing to do restricted speed...
A SIGNAL SUSPENTION
if the signal system is suspened...trains will run like they do back in the old days..and they way they still run on terriroty that is dark (no signals)...on csx its called DTC terriroty... where you get a DTC block....from what i understand..its like a NORAC Form D movement permint form...someone that knows about NORAC rules could help clearify it....
but to get back to how a signal suspention works... basicly from the start of the area where the signals are out of service..to the point where they start in service agin..even if the signals are displaying any indication......they can be passed at track speed..not excedding 49 mph on freight..and 59 on passinger..... as long as the train approches the first signal back in service preparied to stop...or as far as the dispatcher has given the train permistion to go...
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

I would like to have a scanner

[Rodney Beck]

Red does mean stop at the absolute signal if the signal is red at an intermiedat the rule as per gcor is stop and procede if the signal is red and the train is on a grade procede at restricted speed as per gcor. Rodney conductor BNSF

[csxengineer98]

rodney
under GCOR rules..can the dispatcher give you permistion by the Stop inication?
csx engineer

[Rick Gates]

and for MOW workers..failer to be use fall protection....(being tied off with a rope to prevent hiting the ground when working above sertain feet)
i forget the last one...but ill look next time i report for duty..lol....
csx engineer This actually comes from outside RR perview and is covered by 29CFR 1926.104a-f OSHA Standards for safety harnesses and lanyards. These levels are for 8 ft' above the ground but may be less on a state by state basis.

[csxengineer98]

rick
on csx they institued a 2 strikes and your out police on some issues..and fall protection is one of them....
and the next time i go to work and look.... i said that becouse if it dosnt applay to day to day opporations of T&E emplyees.... i dont know it...MOW and Car knockers are not the same craft....as you should know.....so the critical life rules that apply to them are not the same ones that apply to me......
so once agin...... READ ALL THAT I SAY..NOT JUST A FEW WORDS.... how hard is that to understand...
some people
csx engineer

[wabash1]

csxengineer98

I like the way you are trying to get the whole answer out of rodney. you cant just read one part of the rule and that be it. all of the rule applys.

[Rick Gates]

Csx,,,Don't get your drawers in a bunch I read all and agree with it. I was simply adding where the rule comes from.

[mudchicken]

Ironhorse & CSXhogger:

fall Protection is 49CFR214 related (Bridgeworker safety) and the threshold is 12 feet...not the same as OSHA's 6 foot rule

(*) Any grain elevator not having fall protection gantries (yellow cantilievered "dog runners" in most places) in place where they have a guy opening the hatches on a covered hopper is in deep doo-doo with OSHA now....you guys should be seeing a rash of these rascals going up at grain elevators all over the place.

[ problem is, far to many of these new safety devices are errected by agri-dummies who forget that side clearance rules are still in effect, put the supports to close to the track and wind up appeasing OSHA, but also violate state side clearance reg.s ---Have seen quite a few structures put up that were within 2 feet of the edge of tie! - folks like Ed on the side of a car need to be extra careful!!!!!!]

Requires harness, lanyard, proection while tied-off and you MUST have a rescue plan & equipment in place before getting into that harness (same goes for confined spaces plus a lot more permit requirements)......exemption to all of this allows M/W people to cross bridges et. al. by walking or working betweeen the rails - step outside the rail & you need a harness and lanyard.... another exemption is if you are a bridge inspector and the harness is more of a hindrance than a safety enhancer, no harness required....

[csxengineer98]

wabsh,
since i work for csx...i dont know what other rail roads can and cant do comparied to csx... up untill just a few years ago..i didnt know any rules besides CSX and NORAC existed.... so any input on how other class 1s do things is always good information....
csx engineer

[kenneo]

Speaking of passing REDs at Restricted Speed. There is a signal indication that permits passing and "A" signal displaying red without stopping. It is Flashing Red. It is definded as pass without stopping and operate at restricted speed. Normally used at interchanges and yard entrances where switch engines can occupy the main. That way, each time a switch crew needs to use the main, the dispatcher does not have to talk them through the signal. Just puts up a flashing red. By as often as you need and no conversation with the YM or DS needed.

[csxengineer98]

kenneo,
that would be like a restricting signal then... not a true STOP indication....
csx engineer

[kenneo]

Having worked dispatching and train orders, I have a defination of restricting signal that I think you do not have. Mine is - any signal that displays a more restrictive indication than the one you just passed. Also, any signal other than green.

I don't know what the indication is named. It could well be "Restricting Signal". It came about after I left the Operating Department.

[csxengineer98]

the T&E deffinition of a restricting signal is a signal that will alow a train to proseed at restricted speed... under the signal rules for us crews... an apporch mediam dose not mean the same thing as a restricting..
but the example you gave is not a true STOP signal.... under that rail roads rules...the train is able to go by it without talking to anyone...such as a restricting signal....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

To help confuse things more, in Canada a restricting signal is a single yellow (Solid, Not Flashing), a single yellow under red, or a single yellow under double red, or a red single signal with an "R" underneath of it......

Here in Canada (CROR) a restricted signal means you have to proceed at a resticted speed, meaning you have to be able to stop within your field of view.

I'm suprised to hear that signals vary, I kind of assumed they would be the same across North America.....

You can check out the Canadian Signals here....
http://www.tc.gc.ca/railway/Rules/CRORprint.htm

[Rick Gates]

Sounds as though Eric and CSX are talking about two different things and you are both correct. A "Restrictive " signal used in communication is, as eric said, any signal displaying a more restrictive indication than the one previously passed. CSX was replying to the flashing red signal example Eric gave, allowing crews to do switching from a yard or interchange without contacting anyone. He is talking about a "Restricting" signal. As he said, this indication is to proceed prepared to stop short of train, obstruction, switch improperly lined looking out for broken rail, not exceeding 15 mph. That would be the signal one might expect at these type of locations going from dark to lit territory, or dark to dark. The "Flashing Red" sounds to me, to be similar to a "Permisive Block" which, though worded a bit differently, gives the same basic indication of a Restricting signal that CSX was talking about.