I get waves almost all of the time, but even if I don't, that's okay too. If I don't get a wave, I usually get a toot on the air horn.
There was one day while I was with my little ones, and they started waving, and this UP crew member saw them, and opened his window and waved like crazy with both arms.... Both my kids found that immensely entertaining. Got a smile out of me too.. The train was leaving Proviso Yard, and was just beginning to roll
I love the attitude shown by some on here.... wah, wah, I deserve a wave. Get real, people. There's a lot to do in the locomotive. Sometimes that means the crew is too busy to give a wave. Other times, the crew may just not see you, or see you too late. Sometimes railfans look so goofy, the free hand is needed to stifle laughter. Other times the crew is coming onto their 12th hour on duty and is dead tired and sick of that train - and there you are, all smiles and waving. Other times, crews can get tired of waving to people every 5 minutes.
Saying that, I usually try to give a quick wave, esp, to members of the fairer gender and always kids. But to say not getting a wave means the RRer is a jerk - is completely uncalled for, and will not get you that most desired wave.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Waving is a tradition that is only understood by railroaders and those who understand railroading. I would say that relatively few bystanders initiate a wave. I have never encountered a train crewmember that refused to return a wave. I just see it as a kind of "thumbs-up" greeting. It's common courtesy. It should be taken by an engineer that you are probably a friendly observer as opposed to a bystander with unclear motives.
When they had cabooses, a wave to the conductor or brakeman might be taken as a reassurance that everything looked OK as the train passed. I always took their return wave as a thank you. And if there was a problem in the train such as a hotbox, sticking brake, shifting load, etc., you could indicate it to the hind end. Of course if they still had cabooses and you did that today, you would probably get charged with a crime.
You can wave at the EOT if you wish - if you're lucky he may wink back....
FJ and G wrote:engineers on CSX freights going thru Alexandria and Crystal City VA don't wave much as they're usually busy oogling the women on the platform; well at least a few of the women
Bucyrus wrote:When they had cabooses, a wave to the conductor or brakeman might be taken as a reassurance that everything looked OK as the train passed. I always took their return wave as a thank you. And if there was a problem in the train such as a hotbox, sticking brake, shifting load, etc., you could indicate it to the hind end. Of course if they still had cabooses and you did that today, you would probably get charged with a crime.
Midnight Railroader wrote: An engineer who has to time observe people trackside and make a determination as to whether they are on the railroad's property and represent a threat (terrorist or otherwise) to his train, as we've been told in this thread, also has the time to lift his hand to return a friendly wave. Unless he's purposely being a jerk.
An engineer who has to time observe people trackside and make a determination as to whether they are on the railroad's property and represent a threat (terrorist or otherwise) to his train, as we've been told in this thread, also has the time to lift his hand to return a friendly wave.
Unless he's purposely being a jerk.
Not necessarily on all counts. If I am observing with my eyes and have one hand on the automatic brake handle and the other next to the horn in case you get in front of my train so I can use the horn to warn you off or apply the train brakes it doesn't leave me with a free hand to open the window and wave at you, does it?!
Besides, you strike me as the kid with the brick anyhow, or perhaps that's just a BIG chip on your shoulder...
Don't criticize until you try to run a mile in our shoes...
LC
LOL...See Rule #1 above
Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: An engineer who has to time observe people trackside and make a determination as to whether they are on the railroad's property and represent a threat (terrorist or otherwise) to his train, as we've been told in this thread, also has the time to lift his hand to return a friendly wave. Unless he's purposely being a jerk. Not necessarily on all counts. If I am observing with my eyes and have one hand on the automatic brake handle and the other next to the horn in case you get in front of my train so I can use the horn to warn you off or apply the train brakes it doesn't leave me with a free hand to open the window and wave at you, does it?!Besides, you strike me as the kid with the brick anyhow, or perhaps that's just a BIG chip on your shoulder...Don't criticize until you try to run a mile in our shoes...LC
Says a lot about what kind of person you are.
No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second.
Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work.
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
zugmann wrote: No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second. Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work.
I guess, for you, your job is so stressful that you can't manage to be polite to the public while doing it safely. Maybe you need a new job.
Midnight Railroader wrote: Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: An engineer who has to time observe people trackside and make a determination as to whether they are on the railroad's property and represent a threat (terrorist or otherwise) to his train, as we've been told in this thread, also has the time to lift his hand to return a friendly wave. Unless he's purposely being a jerk. Not necessarily on all counts. If I am observing with my eyes and have one hand on the automatic brake handle and the other next to the horn in case you get in front of my train so I can use the horn to warn you off or apply the train brakes it doesn't leave me with a free hand to open the window and wave at you, does it?!Besides, you strike me as the kid with the brick anyhow, or perhaps that's just a BIG chip on your shoulder...Don't criticize until you try to run a mile in our shoes...LCI'm not a kid and never have hoisted a brick. I'm fascinated to see that when someone suggests you display some common courtesy while doing your job, you suddenly throw out insults. Says a lot about what kind of person you are.
The sniveling juvenile attitude you have tells me a LOT about what kind of person you are. Whether you are a child or not, you act like a big baby. Don't try to make me feel guilty for not waving to you or anybody else. If I want to wave and I don't have anything else needing my attention then I'll wave, otherwise, forget it. I owe you nothing.
Get over yourself. And you wonder why railroaders are leery of railfans...sheesh...
Get off your high horse, sir. So, I should tell my dispatcher: "sorry, i didn't copy that speed restriction - because I had to wave at some foamer taking fifteen million photos of this crappy engine.... please repeat"?
Perhaps Midnight Railfan wants us to stop our trains and get out and do a little dance for him. Maybe wash our engines before leaving the terminal, or only run trains when the sun is on the right side of the tracks. Sheesh, give me a break.
zugmann wrote: Get off your high horse, sir. So, I should tell my dispatcher: "sorry, i didn't copy that speed restriction - because I had to wave at some foamer taking fifteen million photos of this crappy engine.... please repeat"
Get off your high horse, sir. So, I should tell my dispatcher: "sorry, i didn't copy that speed restriction - because I had to wave at some foamer taking fifteen million photos of this crappy engine.... please repeat"
Midnight Railroader wrote: zugmann wrote: No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second. Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work. Funny you should use that example. Watch what happens when people do that "honk your horn" arm-thing: by and large, truckers do it. I guess that means for them, it must not be work--it has to be super-happy-fun-time. Right?I guess, for you, your job is so stressful that you can't manage to be polite to the public while doing it safely. Maybe you need a new job.
You have no understanding of what our job entails. Just because we don't wave on command doesn't mean we are impolite or mean spirited. Our job is regimented and highly supervised. Our company, fellow employees and the public demand that we perform service safely and efficently. Safety, not courtesy, is of the first importance in the performance of duty.
Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: An engineer who has to time observe people trackside and make a determination as to whether they are on the railroad's property and represent a threat (terrorist or otherwise) to his train, as we've been told in this thread, also has the time to lift his hand to return a friendly wave. Unless he's purposely being a jerk. Not necessarily on all counts. If I am observing with my eyes and have one hand on the automatic brake handle and the other next to the horn in case you get in front of my train so I can use the horn to warn you off or apply the train brakes it doesn't leave me with a free hand to open the window and wave at you, does it?!Besides, you strike me as the kid with the brick anyhow, or perhaps that's just a BIG chip on your shoulder...Don't criticize until you try to run a mile in our shoes...LCI'm not a kid and never have hoisted a brick. I'm fascinated to see that when someone suggests you display some common courtesy while doing your job, you suddenly throw out insults. Says a lot about what kind of person you are. The sniveling juvenile attitude you have tells me a LOT about what kind of person you are. Whether you are a child or not, you act like a big baby. Don't try to make me feel guilty for not waving to you or anybody else. If I want to wave and I don't have anything else needing my attention then I'll wave, otherwise, forget it. I owe you nothing.Get over yourself. And you wonder why railroaders are leery of railfans...sheesh...LC
Midnight Railroader wrote:I never said you must return 100% of all waves. But the predominant attitude heere from crewmembers appears to be, "Screw you," as this post also indicates.
I never said you must return 100% of all waves. But the predominant attitude heere from crewmembers appears to be, "Screw you," as this post also indicates.
Hey midnight, read the posts again. No one said anything of that kind. What we said is that there are reasons why rrers don't return 100% of the waves. Most railroaders will return most waves - that is a fact. But at times, other items score higher priority.
But from your attitude, it sounds like you were bitten by the jealousy bug. Go out and hire on with the RR, then you can wave to your heart's content. My job is moving freight, pure and simple.
Limitedclear wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: zugmann wrote: No; doing the job comes first. Courtesy is second. Go stand by the highway and wave at all the cars and trucks. See how many wave back. See how many use more than one finger. Railroading isn't super-happy-fun-time. It is work. Funny you should use that example. Watch what happens when people do that "honk your horn" arm-thing: by and large, truckers do it. I guess that means for them, it must not be work--it has to be super-happy-fun-time. Right?I guess, for you, your job is so stressful that you can't manage to be polite to the public while doing it safely. Maybe you need a new job. You have no understanding of what our job entails. Just because we don't wave on command doesn't mean we are impolite or mean spirited. Our job is regimented and highly supervised. Our company, fellow employees and the public demand that we perform service safely and efficently. Safety, not courtesy, is of the first importance in the performance of duty.LC
"Mean-spirited" is a very good phrase, by the way--go back and look at the insults and attitude your fellow crew members have shown on this thread.
I don't understand why so many people are complaining about not getting waves in here. If the engineer or conductor sees me and is not busy on the radio or with the control stand, then he almost always waves back. I understand perfectly well that waving is not the crews' number 1 priority and they often have better things to do than wave to a railfan. The only time that I'm ever disappointed about not getting a wave is if the engineer or conductor looks right at me and does not appear to be busy and still does not wave. However, that happens very rarely.
Thank you for waving as much as you do, engineers and conductors!
Willy
Midnight, with an attitude like that, is it any wonder you don't get waves? Sheesh.
zugmann wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote: I never said you must return 100% of all waves. But the predominant attitude heere from crewmembers appears to be, "Screw you," as this post also indicates. Hey midnight, read the posts again. No one said anything of that kind. What we said is that there are reasons why rrers don't return 100% of the waves. Most railroaders will return most waves - that is a fact. But at times, other items score higher priority. But from your attitude, it sounds like you were bitten by the jealousy bug. Go out and hire on with the RR, then you can wave to your heart's content. My job is moving freight, pure and simple.
Midnight Railroader wrote: I never said you must return 100% of all waves. But the predominant attitude heere from crewmembers appears to be, "Screw you," as this post also indicates.
"...some foamer taking fifteen million photos of this crappy engine."
"Sometimes railfans look so goofy, the free hand is needed to stifle laughter."
"...if you think of taking a picture better not i hate defending my actions caught on camera."
"other wise be greatfull i am not calling in on you."
See, I run a business. My employees don't get paid to do just their job ("moving freight, pure and simple"). They are also representatives of my firm. They don't get to speed or flip people off while working. They're expected to treat the public with respect. And without being too specific, believe me, they have a lot more public contact while trying to work than you do.
And whether you like it or not, you represent your company, too.
zugmann wrote: Midnight, with an attitude like that, is it any wonder you don't get waves? Sheesh.
I started responding to this thread because, while I do, in fact, see most crewmembers smile and wave back if I choose to hold up a hand, I really dislike the attitude (displayed early in this thread) that members of the public are a nuisance who get in your way when they're supportive of your job and the work you do.
Willy2 wrote: I don't understand why so many people are complaining about not getting waves in here. If the engineer or conductor sees me and is not busy on the radio or with the control stand, then he almost always waves back. I understand perfectly well that waving is not the crews' number 1 priority and they often have better things to do than wave to a railfan. The only time that I'm ever disappointed about not getting a wave is if the engineer or conductor looks right at me and does not appear to be busy and still does not wave. However, that happens very rarely. Thank you for waving as much as you do, engineers and conductors!
You've got it Willy.
why do i wave in the first place? a. to give a friendly howdy
b.i want them to wave at me me me me
used to bother me when i waved and they did not reply. i was not in control of them.
dont bother me now since i became less selfish.i 90 percent of time i wave now.i want to give without expecting to get something. its better to give than to receive.even a simple wave at any one any where is compasion. not enough of that nowdays at times.
sometimes they may give me a toot toot too. half of the time when wave at them i cannot see if they wave back at me, sooo whattt.... in nelson il at up rock river bridge trains honk at boaters and simmers that dont wave at train.
i wave to give a sign that i am part of the family. the big picture.
I agree with everything Midnight Railroader has said, I just didnt say it myself becuase I dont want to be rude like some railroaders we know here are..... .
Why is it that railroaders dont like railfans anymore? Nobody ever had a problem with people waving or video taping or photographing unitl the last 10 years or so. Now its "he's taking pics to blow up our train" or "that 5 year old is looking suspicious, lets call the cops!". Why is that? Why are we so paranoid about blowing up and terrorism? Some people like trains, and thats why they railfan. Somebody with a carmera, or looking at you with no bricks in their hand and waving at you shouldnt be accused of "being suspicious". I know a boy who threw a rock at a train, and it came back an broke his nose, he had the FBI come to his house and stuff. Look, just wave at a railfan or somebody waving at you, and stop making excuses not to, you just sounding ridiculous, you dont even know how to defend yourself.
Grayson
It's a two-way street, my friend.
Everytime a rail tries to offer some insights into RR life (like a GEVO is a lot better to ride in than an old SD40) railfans come out on the defensive saying we should all get new jobs! You refer to RR infrastructure as props, you talk crap about our employers (we do too, but we have a more compellign interest!) then you expect us to be all nice to you at all times?
I tried to be civil - explaining why sometimes we don't wave. I was instantly met with a gondola load of crap. Too many railfans only care about locomotives and the perfect photo today - they don't give a rat's behind about the railroad. And they take offense when we try to enlighten them.
It's funny - the more time you spend inside the cab - the more you see what a silly hobby this is.
I wave because it's a sign of courtesy, and if I don't get a wave back, I don't feel slighted, and I can't figure out why anyone one else would. I have yet to run across a rude train crew, in fact, in all my years of "railfanning" the railroaders I have dealt with were always courteous, and some were damned nice, taking a moment out of their job to say hi, share some info, or what have you.
If a railfan is out hanging around the station, or the fringes of the yard, or what have you and is being an to the railroad employees, then how could that person expect courtesy?. Courtesy begets the same....
And, let's face it fellow railfans.... Some members of our hobby can be overbearing, obnoxious, and, honestly, plain old goofy. I get the excitement of trains. I feel it too, but, man.... I have met/witnessed/been in close proximity to some people who define "foamer". And, objectively, I can understand some railroaders aversion to railfans. When I was a firefighter, we had the same problem when it came to our fire engines. During open houses, or public displays, we would always draw some fire buffs, most of them were decent types, and in some cases were firemen themselves, but there was always one in the crowd who was obnoxious, overbearing, and just kind of made a jerk of themselves. In one case, one "fire geek" thought he knew enough to "help" us raise the aerial ladder on the ladder truck (and tried to tell us how it was done)... So, I get the aversion... for me, nothing ruined a Public Education event faster than an obnoxious, overbearing,know-it-all fire buff, wearing his favorite FDNY, or Chicago FD t-shirt, with scanner, camera in hand, and the jacket festooned with fire department patches, getting in everyone's way, getting into the equipment when he wasn't supposed to and touching things he had no business touching.....
So, really, if there is no wave in return........so what????
Magicman710:
I thought that Zugmann and Limitedclear both had very reasonable responses to your question, so I don't understand why you're fighting with them. I thought they both had very good reasoning for when they do wave and for when they don't.
You act like you never get a wave from an engineer or conductor. Where you live, the railroaders must be a lot different than they are here in Nebraska and Iowa. They almost always seem friendly here.
I was in Princeton, Illinois on Monday and saw five trains. I got a wave from every engineer, despite the fact that three of the five trains were approaching a grade crossing and the engineer was busy blowing the horn. In fact, the engineer on Amtrak waved not only to me, but to everyone on the platform.
I seem to have come to the conclusion that there are many very nice railroaders out there. If you don't get a wave from everyone, then tough luck. Chances are the next one will wave.
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