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Hauling coal in HO scale (Also N, O, etc.)

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 2:09 PM

maxman

Excellent article. Thanks, maxman.

Rich

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 12:06 PM

Overmod
maxman A “Top Gon” is a nominal 100 ton three bay coal hopper modified by NS to have a solid bottom. EDIT: Perhaps they are so called because their top sills are made so that loaders can run across them, and car to car, for loading and unloading.

I don't think so, at least not originally.

Discussion of Top Gons here:

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/161365.aspx

More recent info here:

http://www.nscorp.com/content/dam/nscorp/bizns/2014-BizNS-Articles/fall2014/BizNS_Fall2014.pdf

I remember seeing these cars loaded with coal pre-2000 waiting to be unloaded at the METED Titus generating station.  That plant had a single car rotary dumper.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 1:40 AM

zugmann
But I don't think the top gon were any different from other hoppers/gons used in MOW service that had backhoes/unloaders running on them?

They might not have been.  What I think I remember was a brief discussion in Trains that showed a trackhoe or similar equipment running over the top rails and mentioned that the Top Gon construction was reinforced to allow that.

Here's a video of the self-launching that could get a loader in position.  To me it has a kind of Russian semi-suicidal flair:

https://thekidshouldseethis.com/post/19677740901

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 1:29 AM

I mean some wound up in scrap tie service after they were done hauling coal.  But I don't think the top gon were any different from other hoppers/gons used in MOW service that had backhoes/unloaders running on them? 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 1:10 AM

zugmann
Never heard or seen that before.

There are pictures.  Of course, they might be unusual practice...

ISTR they were used in tie service, which wouldn't involve car-shaker unloading and that was said to be a miserable job to unload.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 12:38 AM

Overmod
They are so called because their top sills are made so that loaders can run across them, and car to car, for loading and unloading.

Never heard or seen that before. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 12:24 AM

maxman
A “Top Gon” is a nominal 100 ton three bay coal hopper modified by NS to have a solid bottom.

EDIT: Perhaps they are so called because their top sills are made so that loaders can run across them, and car to car, for loading and unloading.

Name is probably the logical pun from the movie; if I recall correctly these didn't have rotary couplers but could only be unloaded from 'the top' -- I understand car shakers were commonly used.

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Posted by maxman on Monday, May 31, 2021 11:45 PM

A “Top Gon” is a nominal 100 ton three bay coal hopper modified by NS to have a solid bottom.

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Monday, May 31, 2021 9:56 PM

Overmod

Has anyone modeled Top Gons and their loading/unloading?

 

I'm not sure what a top gon is. ..... Regular gons were used at coal mines early in the 20th Century.

 

 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, May 30, 2021 12:47 PM

Easiest solution I know for removable lids, roofs, or loads is to use magnetic washers.  Little ones near the corners if you want magnets in the cars to hold them down; big ones for weight and to facilitate removal.  Use a 'cheap' NIB magnet or glued stack from a source like Harbor Freight, on a stick or on a string, for the removal; you can glue a little piece of thin rubber over it to cushion any 'impact' and simplify releasing the magnet when the load is lifted.  Experiment to get the best balance and position, and don't be afraid to make and use two tools simultaneously (or the equivalent of a handle between two magnets, like a cabinet handle) to make lifting or installation easier.

I believe there are differences in the shapes of the coal piles in the hoppers/gons represented by the loads, depending on the specific methods (e.g. flood vs. conveyor loading) and the pattern of coke from a larry probably won't look like loading from overhead.  I am no expert but I suspect a little research in pictures will show what you'd need to see.

Has anyone modeled Top Gons and their loading/unloading?

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Sunday, May 30, 2021 11:59 AM

Update. 

I worked on coke loads for the coke oven. 

First photo: .... Loads in coke hoppers. Closest to camera are loads tinted with blue/gray coloring in an attemot to look like coke. Behind are two cars which still are black and look like coal. 

 

 

Second photo..... 

The load in the side dump car has been tinted with orange as well as blue / gray to look like red hot coke from the oven . The EMD-40 will next shove it into the quench tower to cool it. 

 

 

My "to do list" includes scratch building a quench car to replace the side dump car. If that works, I might make a more realistic looking locomotive for the quench car. However, I have lots of other projects on the "to do list", and this is not high priority. 

In the picture, you can see scratch built machines on the decks of the coke oven. 

GARRY

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Friday, May 21, 2021 10:40 AM

Rich ... Thank you for sharing the images of the Calvert City terminal. Even with N scale , it would require a lot of space to model it. 

Last Spike Mike: ... Thanks for sharing your memories about color of coke. 

GARRY

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 21, 2021 7:05 AM

Heartland Division CB&Q

In the picture you can see a railroad / barge terminal located in Calvert City, KY. He said the BNSF unit in the foreground was the DPU pusher as the train entered the terminal with coal. It is leading the empty train out of the terminal. Another train has Paducah and Louisville (PAL) locomotives, and it is delivering coal. The terminal is located on the PAL, and it is on the Tennessee River only a few miles before it enters the Ohio RIver. 

 

This has to be one of the coolest railroad photos that I have ever seen. It drove me to open up Google Maps and examine the scene in greater detail.

Here is another aerial view of the geographic area. If you look closely there are actually two wyes in the photo. The upper wye is just below the race track to allow coal trains to enter and exit from either direction. The lower wye, farther south is where the coal trains rejoin the mainline.

calvert-city-1.jpg

In the following photo, you can see the string of empty coal cars exiting the racetrack from the opposite direction from the train in the drone photo. 

calvert-city-4.jpg

In the final photo, you can see the apparatus used to load coal in barges on the Tennessee River.

calvert-city-3.jpg

Rich

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, May 21, 2021 6:41 AM

richhotrain
Uh oh, maybe I should read through this thread againConfusedConfused

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 21, 2021 6:35 AM

 
richhotrain
Love this thread. Rich 
AARRGH!!! I don’t know what’s going wrong with the world, but I’m agreeing with Rich, again!!!
Sigh Smile, Wink & Grin 

Uh oh, maybe I should read through this thread again. ConfusedConfused

Rich

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, May 21, 2021 6:26 AM

richhotrain
Love this thread. Rich

AARRGH!!! I don’t know what’s going wrong with the world, but I’m agreeing with Rich, again!!!
Sigh Smile, Wink & Grin

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 21, 2021 1:21 AM

Heartland Division CB&Q

Rich ..... The C&NW coal train looks good. 

Thanks, Garry. 

Love this thread.

Rich

 

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Thursday, May 20, 2021 9:55 PM

John. Bear, Maxman, Last Spike Mike,  Wayne, Kevin  ..... Thanks for chiming in with more comments and photos. 

Bear: .... Nice photo. 

Wayne : .... Your coal in the tender looks real. 

Kevin ... Thank You ! 

Regarding magnets to lift out loads: ..... As I said, I have another method. I can easily pop the loads out with a dental pick inserted between the car side and the edge of the load. It is simple. No magnets needed. 

Regarding color of coke: .... Thanks Mike for refreshing my memory. It has been many years since I have seen coke. I recalled it had a blue cast to it as well as somewhat silver. (Maybe my memory is wrong.) I tried adding a blue tint to my loads, but it went away as I used the white glue. 

Mike: .... A few days ago you posted in this thread: "The more modern you get the more you'll be tempted by N scale to model coal trains. You'd think N scale was developed specifically  for modelling modern unit trains. "

Below is a photo of an operation best for smaller scales such as N or even Z. ... It is recent picture taken with a drone by photographer / railfan Jim Pearson. He lives in western Kentucky and posts many beautiful railroad photos in Facebook.

In the picture you can see a railroad / barge terminal located in Calvert City, KY. He said the BNSF unit in the foreground was the DPU pusher as the train entered the terminal with coal. It is leading the empty train out of the terminal. Another train has Paducah and Louisville (PAL) locomotives, and it is delivering coal. The terminal is located on the PAL, and it is on the Tennessee River only a few miles before it enters the Ohio RIver. 

 

 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, May 20, 2021 9:50 PM

Heartland Division CB&Q
Below is a picture I took last night at the coke oven. 

Those all look good Garry. Effort well spent and successful.

Another coal train of mine:

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, May 20, 2021 8:01 PM

Here's some coke breeze (the "fines" from coke making).  I use it as

"live" loads in all my steam loco tenders, and also use it in hoppers and some gondolas, too.

Wayne

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:19 PM

John-NYBW
This weekend I plan to get around to building a coal load with the magnet inside to coal pile

Not sure what you're doing here.  If you want to embed anthing in the coal pile I suggest that you use one or two of those large headed steel roofing nails.

You're not going to be able to pull out a magnet with a magnet unless you have magnets with opposite "polarity".  Plus nails are less expensive.

You will find that some loads may not pull out easily anyway because the hopper car sides and ends will sometimes bow in slightly.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, May 20, 2021 4:00 PM

Viaduct 2 by Bear, on Flickr

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by John-NYBW on Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:49 AM

I started out my coal loads the same way using a thin sheet of styrene reenforced with two beams. After spraying the styrene black l dabbed on a layer of liquid electrical tape and applied the coal to that. When it dried,  that gave me a base layer to apply the mounds of coal to which I secured with the thin white glue the way I would with track ballasts. 

I think I said something incorrect earlier when I said I experimented with burying a KD between-the-rails magnet inside the coal load to allow it to be lifted out with KD under-the-track magnet. Actually, I initially had put the magnets under the coal load between the two beams. I found that the magnet wasn't powerful enough to lift it out. I had planned to try again by putting the magnet inside the coal load which would put it closer to the larger magnet but I haven't actually gotten around to doing that yet. I did all of this last year and didn't quite remember where this experiment stood. 

Right now to lift out the loads I used a hobby knife with a chisel blade. This weekend I plan to get around to building a coal load with the magnet inside to coal pile to see if that will work. I'm cautiously optimistic that it will. I'll post some pictures.

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Thursday, May 20, 2021 10:04 AM

Rich ..... The C&NW coal train looks good. 

...

I made some coke loads as I said I would do. 

 

I have six Walthers coke cars which I have been running empty from the coke oven to the blast furnace. Adding loads was long overdue. Also, I am using a side dump car as a substitute for a quench car. I still intend to scrap build one. 

Below is a picture I took last night at the coke oven. 

Next you can see coke cars being shoved onto the high line behind the blast furnace wher ore is also delivered. 

I made the loads myself. I started with a styrene piece cut to fit inside the car. I used material in the scrap box which was too thin, and so I reinforced it with a plastic beam glued lengthwise to the bottom. I made humps with consturction adhesive. 

 

 

The next step was to paint everything flat black.

 

FInally, I glued coal scenic material with white glue. To my knowldge, they do not sell coke color. I tired to change the coloring, but what I ended up with will have to suffice. 

The loads can easily be removed from the cars with a dental pick inserted between the side of the car and the edge of the load. 

 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, May 14, 2021 5:52 PM

A Chicago & Northwestern coal train at Council Bluffs, midway between the Powder River Basin and Chicago.

Rich

P1020774.jpg

P1020775.jpg

P1020776.jpg

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P1020777.jpg

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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Friday, May 14, 2021 4:04 PM

I want to thank all who particpated in this thread with photos and discussions about hauling coal on model railroads.

 

 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by John-NYBW on Friday, May 14, 2021 2:34 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
richhotrain

 

 
John-NYBW

Harper's Ferry is one of the historical sites on my bucket list. It is of course where a contingent of Marines commanded by Robert E. Lee captured John Brown. The final assault was led by JEB Stuart.

 

 

Ahh, good ole J.E.B. Stuart. Things didn't work out so well for him at Gettysburg.  Embarrassed

 

Rich

 

 

 

During those three days, the cavalry star was on the other side, John Buford, who's actions are likely what turned the tide of the war. Buford, and a school teacher from Maine the next day, two of the post pivotal moments of that war.

Sheldon 

 

Buford's heroic action stalled the Confederates long enough for the main body to reach Gettysburg and take the high ground along Cemetery Ridge. However, all that would have been for naught if not for the hesitancy of General Ewell to take Culp's Hill on day one. If the Confederates had taken that hill, they could have flanked the Union line along Cemetery Ridge from the north.

One day two the Confederates could have accomplished the same thing if not for the heroic stand by Joshua Chamberlin in holding Little Round Top. If that had fallen to the Confederates, they could have flanked the Union line from the South. 

Those two failures pushed Lee into ordering the suicidal Pickett's Charge at the Union center on day three against Longstreet's better judgment. Had the Confederates been victorious at the crossroads town of Gettysburg, they would have had a clear road to attack Washington from the northwest or move against the major cities along the eastern seaboard. There would have been great pressure on the Lincoln administration to capitulate. 

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Posted by OldEngineman on Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:52 PM

"I'm curious as to what New Yorkers consider upstate New York. Is the southern tier in western New York considered upstate?"

Look at a map of New York state. Locate Poughkeepsie. Now imagine a horizontal line through Poughkeepsie going in either direction. Above that line is "upstate" to most New Yorkers.

Depending on how "down state" they are, some might move that line south to Newburgh...  Wink

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, May 13, 2021 9:34 PM

doctorwayne
I think that photo's rather nicely-done, and the backdrop helps to supplement that controlled lighting.

Thank you for the kind response.

I am also happy with the way the backdrop was lit. My main problem with the pictures I took with that set-up was the dark black void that was created underneath the freight cars. With the solid sides on the box, the only way to alleviate the issues was to use the built-in flash on the camera, and then I had shadows on the backdrop!

I like to see the details underneath the coal hoppers.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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