How to relate older Life Like product in Walthers program

[khier]

wjstix

In any case, I wouldn't avoid LL engines just because some early runs had a less efficient motor than later ones.

 

And how should I combine them when their motors have different characteristics?

wjstix

To me, spending $50 for an engine and $20-30 for a new motor is a better deal than paying $200 for a new improved engine.

 

Here I tend to agree with you. I would also add I would rather get a basic generic engine and detail/paint myself. This adds much more to the hobby than running trains and introduce a sense of individalism. The only problem is time. Kitbashing, building and modifying are time intensive activities.

Regards

Walid 

[khier]

And the confusion contnues....

I have been searching for the origins of the speed mis match between two apparently identical LL P2K Alco PA. The most probable theory was the different motors. Now I checked this post and realized Lehigh Valley PA were released only once by Life Like, and it was the third PA run.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/244687/2726349.aspx?page=2

Even worse, I checked the road numbers and discovered both have the same road number (I will print a number sticker later). So I have only two possibilities:

1- Indeed different motors and the shell was replaced.

2- Identical motors and there is another mchanical and/or electrical problem.

The best thing is to finally find/take the time to remove the shells and see myself.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Regards

 

Walid

[mbinsewi]

khier

The best thing is to finally find/take the time to remove the shells and see myself.

That would be my first step, and look for any visual differences. 

If the motors are the same, I would do a stall test, to see which one draws the most amps.

Than I would completely clean the armatures on both.

Than I would remove the trucks, and clean out any old grease, as Randy and others have mentioned, replace with Labelle 106.

I'd run them both, with the shell off, to run in the new grease, and see how they compare.

If all of that didn't make any improvements, than I would consider a repower.

I think I would weigh the cost of a repower vs buying another loco, and hoping I got one with the better motor, which would be tuff from the auction sites, as most sellers don't know what they have, and they don't show decent pictures.

Mike.

[wjstix]

khier

 

wjstix

In any case, I wouldn't avoid LL engines just because some early runs had a less efficient motor than later ones.

 

 

 

 

And how should I combine them when their motors have different characteristics?

 

Well, my point was that there are thousands of well detailed, excellent running LL engines on layouts throughout the country. The fact that some early ones were "lemons" doesn't mean they all are. Mistakes were corrected, and quality improved. A LL E-8 that was "state of the art" 20 years ago is still a good engine today.

 

But anyway...If one engine runs slower than the other, you can use the decoder's CVs 5 and 6 to slow down the faster one so they run at the same speed. If one starts before the other, you can adjust CV 3 on the one that starts quicker to delay it's start so that they both start together - or use CV2 to boost the starting voltage of the slower engine - or both! Use CV4 so they both coast to a stop together.

 

p.s. not sure about LL PA's, but I know over the years the Proto E-units have had different gearings. IIRC, some folks felt the old LL units weren't fast enough, so they changed the gearing so they could go faster. I think the change came under Walthers, but it's possible your two engines might just be geared differently.

[khier]

Thanks for the information. However, I think the point is still unclear. If one starts later than the other because it simply draws more current then the CV adjustment you mentioned might work. But if this current is beyond the decoder capacity the decoder itself will be lost. I also wrote in a later post that both engines are probably identical (according to the road numbers). If this is confirmed, the problem then must lie in the mechanical part rather than the electric.

 

Regards

 

Walid

[khier]

Mystry resolved. The most logical yet the least  probable cause one would think of. The reluctant one is fitted with a Digitraxx decoder.

Regards

Walid

[gmpullman]

khier

The reluctant one is fitted with a Digitraxx decoder.

Did you try resetting the Digitrax decoder? Perhaps the previous owner had entered different speed curve CVs into it.

I have dozens of older Life-Like engines, many of those still using "vintage" Digitrax DH-121 and DH-123s in them. Eventually I'll weed them out and place more recent decoders in them, but for now, they run just fine.

Regards, Ed 

[rrinker]

 Were you running them in consist? With which DCC system?

If it's NCE or MRC, then yes, this is the problem - Digitrax decoders when used in CV19 consists by default have BEMF disabled. There's been a few recent threads on this. If the run together when not in a consist but act up when in consist, the simple solution is to adjust the BEMF CV in the Digitrax decoder so it has the same setting in consist as well as not. Somewhere back in time, it was though BEMF in consists would make the locos 'fight' each other. Tish tosh, I have locos from different manufacturers with different decoders running together with no problems - two P2K with TCS combined with an Atlas with QSI. They run for hours at a time on the club layout with no issues.

                                  --Randy

 

[khier]

Randy, I was testing them in DC. How would I test them in DCC when one of them does not have a decoder? The decoder is the 123 thing... It will be replaced eventually in this one and the other will get an identical substitute. Then they will run in a consist. Shell removal was relatively easy, but the tiny grab irons/hand rails were a nightmare to handle.

 

Regards.

 

Walid.