Agrees with Lion. I use humpyard purveyor. Armstrong leavers
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
My layout is essentially "finished" so I don't go to the hobby shop in question much anymore but I am greatful that such a place still exists within easy driving distance. I have been going there for at least 30 years in it's various locations in Mineola. The current owner is the son of the original owner and he has always been pleasant and helpful. I have never had an issue with any of his staff but anyone can have a bad day. Just my two cents worth.
I do a lot of customer service for a federal agency (contrary to popular belief, that's not necessarily a contradiction in terms!). With everything else going on during the day, some minutes are less than ideal. Could be interruptions, office politics, less than understanding inquirers, or too many donuts. After all these years, I still find it amazing just how easily frustration with one issue - or person - can bleed into a conversation with the next poor guy on the phone. I've always prided myself in pretty good customer service. But I also note that every now and then it's not nearly up to snuff. Good thread that reminds us all that some occasions just turn crappy. We're blessed if those are but "water under the bridge" moments that will shortly be downstream. I hope the original OP will go back to the store looking for a better visit.
joe323But are you sure it isn't just the New Yorker coming out in him? NYers are not known for patience and I being one have to learn to adapt.
Ha, aren't we all Model Railroaders first and New Yorkers (or whatever) second? I'm not sure if there are many impatient modelers out here.
I model a former Bronx freight terminal in N scale and use DCC. My hand-laid turnouts are motorized and are controlled with DCC accessory decoders. I use the touch screen of my DCC control unit to throw individual switches and select routes on a digital track schematic for a 1950 era layout. Is this a problem for me? Not at all. I started modeling for the sake of creating a scaled-down piece of historical reality, and not really for modeling an operational process. Whether we stick to a prototype or are (proto-) freelancers, our hobby is full of oxymorons and we'll have to make reasonable compromises.
I can see that costs are an important factor to consider when lots of switches are involved. On my 3' x 4' layout I was able drive down the unit cost for motorizing a turnout to a little bit more than $10. This by using acessory decoders that drive multiple turnouts, by using SG90 servos and by making my own servo brackets. That's still less than a standard turnout motor or switch machine with a push button or toggle switch.
Andreas
www.harlemrivercrossways.com/blog
"Graham Line, How about the customer? Why couldn't he have handled the situation better?"
Of course he could have. There were two people in the transaction, and neither of them ended getting up what they wanted, be it effective switch machine controls or a sale.
One guy mishandled a customer and the other one stormed out and posted his half of the story for a bunch of strangers to read.
Paul3I'd rather have my retailer point out when I'm making a potentially expensive mistake rather than waiting for me to fail.
It appears he did try that and things didn't go so well. What can you do at that point? Isn't there an old saying: "the customer is always right"? Maybe it isn't always so, but from a customer service stand point, thats "old school". Just a thought, not a sermon.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Graham Line There were two people in the transaction, and neither of them ended getting up what they wanted, be it effective switch machine controls or a sale. One guy mishandled a customer and the other one stormed out and posted his half of the story for a bunch of strangers to read.
There were two people in the transaction, and neither of them ended getting up what they wanted, be it effective switch machine controls or a sale.
True enough. Bad thing is everyone looses in the above scenario. If thats typical of life on earth, it isn't boding well for mankind.
Graham LineOne guy mishandled a customer and the other one stormed out and posted his half of the story for a bunch of strangers to read.
And how could he have told the clerks side of it? No matter if the question was stupid ill informed or whatever, the clerks reply was out of place. It does not matter what the clerks motives were. He was rude and that is not acceptable.
I've had similar experiences at a couple of LHS in the Los Angeles area.
The "late" owner of one shop had the worst people skills imaginable. He would greet everyone with the meanest looking scowl you've ever seen and would get downright hostile if you were stupid enough to ask a question. The crazy thing was, he would eventually send you on your way with exactly what you needed!
During a visit to another shop, I found a "bargain" table covered with used blue box kits (already built) that I thought I could clean up fairly easily. All were clearly marked with stick-on price labels between 2 and 3 dollars. Having only a $20 in my pocket, I selected the best 6 and headed for the register. The guy behind that counter looked at the marked prices and grumbled, "those aren't right," then proceeded to ring up each car at twice the marked price. I said, "No thank you," stepped away from the counter, and waited by the exit for my friend who was still shopping. I thought the guy's head was going to explode!
Hornblower
SeeYou190 Thank heaven Gulf Coast Model Railroading in Sarasota has survived, and Metro Trains opened in Fort Myers.
Thank heaven Gulf Coast Model Railroading in Sarasota has survived, and Metro Trains opened in Fort Myers.
robkozI updated my original post to clarify the details. Especially for posters like Paul3. Thank you
Thanks for the clarification.
I think this is a case where if either party had put a little more effort into communicating, things might have gone better. Simply being understood can be a challenge on some days, with no one really at fault, it's just harder than it may seem. Miscommunucaton seems to be increased the more we communicate in the modern age.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Once again I edited my post with a part 2 because apparently people here failed reading comprehension (Paul3) and made up their own story for my experience.
robkoz,I've worked small retail for 25 years at a bookstore, and have worked as a train show dealer for 25 years. I've been on the other side of the counter for a long time, so I have a slightly different perspective.
Since you've accused me of making stuff up, let me see if I got this straight: the employee made, according to you, an "annoyed" face (what does that look like?) after you asked a question that makes no sense (if the voltage of Atlas switch motors are low enough for an NCE Switch8...huh?) and said he didn't understand why you are using DCC and not push buttons. In response, you dropped everything without so much as a word, stormed off for home, and ordered things online. You were still so angry afterwards that you decided to log on to the MR forum just to vent about it. All because one guy made a face and said he didn't understand why you were using DCC instead of push buttons.
Hey, I also don't understand why you aren't using push buttons. I have no idea why a 7' shelf matters in the least. Do you think that's disrespectful, too? For the record, I've been using DCC since 1999, so I'm hardly anti-DCC.
That all being said, you realize we can't read the employee's tone in your message. So far, you've quoted nothing that the employee said or how he said it other than, "...he doesn't understand why I was using DCC to control my switches and not 'push buttons.'" That sounds pretty mild to me. It's not like the guy yelled at you, cursed, threw things around, called you names, insulted your intelligence, blew cigar smoke in your face, or made an insultingly horrible joke. There are many reasons to storm out of a retail store, but an employee saying he doesn't understand why you're doing something isn't one of them...unless there's something more that you haven't told us.
riogrande5761,The customer isn't always right. There was a lady (never seen her before) that came into my small independant bookstore to return a book because she said she read the first page and hated it. She wanted her money back. I said we don't do cash refunds (noting the signs on the wall), but I could offer her a store gift certificate for the full amount of the book. Nope, not good enough. She wanted cash. I said do you at least have the receipt? Her answer? "Well, I didn't buy it here; I bought it at Barnes & Noble's." Stunned, I asked why didn't she bring it back to them? She said, "I did but they wouldn't give me my money, either." I told her that I was sorry, but I could not help her. She grabbed her book and stormed off. Now, according to some, I committed horrible customer relations because I didn't give this customer what they wanted, but what they wanted was my money out of my pocket. Sorry, but one has to draw the line somewhere.
When I owned my train store (1973-1975), I'd look forward to confronting the bizzare and often ridiculous comments and actions from customers. It sort of broke up the monotony of sitting behind the counter [description removed by moderator]. I also found it extremely challenging and most rewarding to deal with these situations successfully. No, the customer is not always right, but as a retail shop owner, the challenge is/was to have him leave thinking he was correct and to return again.
One good example: A fellow comes in just after the Christmas holidays with a Tyco Chattanooga Choo Choo train set and an attitude I dare not elaborate about on this forum. He claimed that one of the couplers (X2f) was broken and a tire had slipped from a driving wheel and was extremely pissed off that he had to bring it back.............back? I never sold him this pile of junk, nor did we carry anything with horn hook couplers, never mind Tyco trains. He told me upon my query, that he bought it from a discounter, but since he thought I was a Tyco dealer, I should fix it. My first reaction which was most likely normal was to toss him out of the store............but wait a minute???..... to re-attach a driiver tire and replace a coupler....5 minutes at the most. I said sure I'd be glad to fix it. Just look around the shop as it will take me around 10-15 minutes to make the repair. Actually it took around 3 minutes, but the additional time he spent looking around bore fruit. He was so grateful, that he purchased more items and became a steady customer. There were many similar tales like this....and many from my employees as I used this story as a training example.
If some store owners are not to your liking, and if you happen to be in the central Maryland area (Baltimore--southern PA) try visiting MB Klein, Tommy Gilbert's, Main Line Hobby supply, Star Hobbies and a few others...I can almost guarantee that you'll leave happy.
HZ
This doesn't sound like very good customer service to me.
I only walked out of hobby shop once. I was looking for a particular item. The clerk (owner) told me, in an aragont tone, the item didn't exist - nobody made anything like that.
As he was speaking I could see the item over his left shoulder hanging from a peg board.
I found bought it later that day at another shop.
Previously it had been a good store, one of my goto places, but the old owner had died and his family sold the business. The new ower let the stock deteriorate and put in arcade games. A year later the store was gone.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
ATSFGuy This doesn't sound like very good customer service to me.
Its not..What some shop owners forget they need us far more then we need them..I won't put up with any shop owner's attitude.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Did it come to mind to ask to speak to someone else or the owner? Many times people who don't like the person taking care of them ask to speak to someone else. I know that shop well, and it's NOT a one man show. The problem with this entire thread is we're only hearing ONE SIDE of the story (no offense intended to the OP), as this is the case with many of these types of posts.
Sorry it happened. You should give them another shot and ask to speak to the owner (two of them, actually). They're really a quality hobby shop.
nealknowsYou should give them another shot and ask to speak to the owner (two of them, actually). They're really a quality hobby shop.
Being a "quality hobby shop" doesn't give them a pass if the owner(s) or employee(s) forgets who helps pay the bills and disrespects the customer or and I've seen this a lot and it has happen to me treat one long time customer better then others. I spent a lot of money in that shop.
I wouldn't take their attitude either and would have walked out since there are better ways to deal with a customer..
DSchmittI only walked out of hobby shop once. I was looking for a particular item. The clerk (owner) told me, in an aragont tone, the item didn't exist - nobody made anything like that. As he was speaking I could see the item over his left shoulder hanging from a peg board.
For the life of me I don't understand why you walked out when you did.
What you should have done was ask the clerk if you could see the item you saw over his shoulder. When you looked over the item, you could say "yes, this is exactly what I was looking for". THEN you could have walked out.
I worked for 20 years answering questions on the phone for a government agency. One thing I always stressed to new people was 'answer the question the caller asked' - seems obvious, but it' easy to make a short call a long one by going into issues not really related to what the question was.
In the OP's case, the person helping him should have answered the question - which apparently would have been "no, they won't work with Atlas switches, you need to use ______ instead". The fact that the guy apparently didn't like using DCC for switches on his layout - or perhaps thought adding DCC switching was too complicated, so was suggesting something simpler - was irrelevent to the question.
wjstix I worked for 20 years answering questions on the phone for a government agency. One thing I always stressed to new people was 'answer the question the caller asked' - seems obvious, but it' easy to make a short call a long one by going into issues not really related to what the question was. In the OP's case, the person helping him should have answered the question - which apparently would have been "no, they won't work with Atlas switches, you need to use ______ instead". The fact that the guy apparently didn't like using DCC for switches on his layout - or perhaps thought adding DCC switching was too complicated, so was suggesting something simpler - was irrelevent to the question.
Bingo! Thank you! Glad you and many others here got it.
nealknows They're really a quality hobby shop.
They're really a quality hobby shop.
I don;t see siding with the shop employee at all - all he would have had to do is say no, the Atlas switch motors are not compatible with the Switch8. You have to either use pushbuttons, or Tortoise motors - and pointed rob at the Tortoises which cost a lot more than the Atlas motors. Avoiding a compatibility issue and/or damaged products, AND increasing the sale, in a friendly manner that is in no way a BS snow job.
Maybe he was out of Tortoises....
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I don;t see siding with the shop employee at all - all he would have had to do is say no, the Atlas switch motors are not compatible with the Switch8. You have to either use pushbuttons, or Tortoise motors - and pointed rob at the Tortoises which cost a lot more than the Atlas motors. Avoiding a compatibility issue and/or damaged products, AND increasing the sale, in a friendly manner that is in no way a BS snow job. Maybe he was out of Tortoises.... --Randy
That's basically what I said back upstream.
My take is that the shop keeper didn't know the answer and got defensive. So he lashed at the customer, and put down his choices in order to reestablish a position of dominance in his own lair.
Maybe not, but that defensive yet know-it-all shop keeper is far to common in the hobby. A little humility can go a long way.
"I'm sorry sir, I don't know the answer off the top of my head." "And most folks that shop here find push buttons more convenient anyway, so I don't typically get asked that kind of question."
- Douglas
Ok.
14 years customer service experience speaking here. (Some of them as supervisor and/or trainer.)
This is a long winded post, so bear with me...
If you wish to skip all the reasons why I say what I say, skip to bold print...
Let's examine the facts:
Fact: The product in question would not work the way the customer intended to use it.
Fact: The employee is right to state this is so.
(Side fact: I have even gone so far as to refuse to sell a customer something that won't work for their intended use.)
Fact: The employee's reaction was, shall we say, below the grade, of what was expected. (Obvious from the reaction of customer.)
Fact: We don't know why the employee reacted that way. (Already brought out in a prior post.)
Fact: There is zero excuse for disrespectful behavior, on either the employee or customer side. (Bad day or not, no excuses.)
Fact: We don't know "the other side" of the story... So this could be an unknown element...
Fact: No supervisor or owner was asked for. (Per OP.)
Based on the facts we know, and the facts we don't know, as a customer service person, I would say this:
"No, I'm sorry, that will not work. Instead, you could use push buttons, or use tortoise motors, or, even Smail motors, as they have decoders built in, thereby saving you from buying the Switch8."
If you insisted on doing it your way, with the Switch8 and Atlas motors, I would, politely, explain that they were not compatible, and that you would damage one or the other, or both, making your purchase a waste of money.
If, you still insisted on your way, I would refuse the sale, and ask you to spend your money elsewhere.
(You would most likely be mad if you wasted your money anyways. So, save you some grief by refusing to take it, thereby not taking advantage of you. You might later realize this fact, and become a good customer because of it. If not, I still feel good about doing the right thing.)
As a supervisor, if told of this experience:
I would do, immediately three distinct things -
1 - Apologize for the poor experience.
2 - Ask exactly who it was, so that I could "address the issue" with said employee later on.
Because , I haven't yet done -
3 - Ask you, the customer, if there was "any way that I personally could assist you further, to make your experience a better one."
Once the customer was heard out, and taken care of to the best of my ability (even if the answer was still a "no".), I would then speak with said employee, in private, and ask, calmly, what had happened.
If it was warranted, additional training, or reprimanding, would then occur after this.
(I say "If warranted", because, and a big if here, if the employee was right to refuse the sale, or right in whatever decision he/she made, and there was nothing that could be done otherwise, no additional training, nor reprimanding of employee, is needed, nor will it be done.)
(Yes, quotes would be the exact phrases I would use.)
My thoughts, based on said experience, is this: The situation could have been handled better.
I will leave my full answer as it stands, other than adding this:
I note that the supervisor/owner was not given any opportunity to "make it a better experience", and, I must now add that:
I, therefore, encourage both parties to try this again, to see if it can be done right the second time around.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
He made them himself in their wood working shop at the Monastary.
Johnboy out..........
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
Well... In spite of what so many people hear in customer service pep talks, the customer is not always right, in fact they are rarely right. They do not know what they want, they do not know what things cost, they do not understand the business they are dealing with, and they many times do not even know how to describe why they are disatisfied. There should really be some good education in a citizenship class on how to be a consumer.
.
In my field, we know that every vehicle that arrives for repair has TWO failures. The vehicle is broken, and the owner is broken. If the customer was always right, everything would be under base warranty coverage forever, and every failure would be a direct result of something that happened during a previous service event.
We are all trained very carefully. The Technician needs to fix the vehicle, the Service Advisor needs to fix the customer. If they can both do there jobs correctly, you will have a satisfied customer and a successful service event. If either one of them fails, the customer will never be satisfied. If either one of them cannot complete their side of the repair, the Service Manager can modify both sides of the repair as necessary to get a satisfied customer.
Hobby shops cannot do any of this. They are small operations not backed up by a national organization of service centers. You are lucky just to have a hobby shop. The owners are not getting wealthy in relationship to the amount of work they do, and they truly are there for you. If you expect the kind of customer service you get at Macy's, Chevrolet, or Comcast, you are out of luck.
Maybe unrealistic customer expectations has a bigger contributive effect in hobby shop failures than I would like to imagine.
This is like chewing off our own hands. Hobby shops are the grounds where future model railroaders will be spawned. Without future hobbiests, we will get no new products.
Give the guy a break.
-Kevin
Living the dream.