It's always great to hear about a youngster having a great start in our great hobby. I was 6 when my Dad came home one night with a Varney Docksider train set. Here's hoping your grandson is still at it 58 years from now, Roger! He's got the advantage technology we didn't have - can motors, knuckle couplers of any kind, and sectional track with roadbed that keeps it together.
When I think back about the old brass sectional track. It came apart if you looked at it, and tarnished quickly. The horn-hook couplers forced a derailment running backwards around a curve. Fortunately, Dad built a 4x6 "train platform" with a twice-around track plan a few months later.
George V.
Good morning all,
I may have mentioned this opinion in other posts, but I have to give kudos to Bachmann for their EZ-Track. I have dabbled off and on for 50 years in HO and was never able to get a smooth running layout until EZ-track came along. I am in the process of building a runnable 4x6 layout and all of my experimental runs on bare plywood have been very successful. I went with the gray nickel silver track and the only maintenance I have performed is some eraser work on the rails. I do have some Bachmann rolling stock which runs well and the majority of the buildings for now are some old Plasticville from the 60s that has stood the test of time. I hope everyone has a good day.
Keep on training,
Mike C. from Indiana
Those basic Bachmann's are okay for the money. I bought an FT for my son. And while it's not DCC ready, a little noisy, and doesn't have constant directional lighting, it's a nice unit for the money. It's still running 2 months later. You can't argue with 3 cars + engine + track + transformer for $80 online.That said, be careful of that wall wart transformer. It's only supposed to put out 16V AC. It puts out a LOT MORE. I had two in a row do that. If you run it at full crank, you run the risk of ruining the motor.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
cheapclassics but I have to give kudos to Bachmann for their EZ-Track. I have dabbled off and on for 50 years in HO and was never able to get a smooth running layout until EZ-track came along. I am in the process of building a runnable 4x6 layout and all of my experimental runs on bare plywood have been very successful. I went with the gray nickel silver track and the only maintenance I have performed is some eraser work on the rails.
The gray ballast nickel silver based product is perfectly fine. The black ballast steel rail (while a bit more prototypical I guess) is not the best. I doubt you would be giving kudos if you went with the steel track.
Hey Roger!
Congratulations on your grandson's good luck! It is really good to hear that he is enjoying the train set.
It is also good to hear that he was able to set it up and get it running himself (maybe not quite so good that he broke the outlet rule though, since he is probably too young to comprehend the potential risks). He sounds like the kind of kid who will be a 'do it yourself' person instead of having to hire someone to change his lightbulbs as it were.
When my kids were that age (no grandkids yet) I was working so many hours that I didn't have much time for them. I thought at the time that I was doing my best to provide for their futures, but in reality that cost me and them enormously in terms of time not spent together. I look forward to the time when I do have grandkids so I can get it right the second time round.
Keep up the good work!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
He's a definite do it yourself guy. He hangs on my every word and action following me around the farm learning everything he can. For a small boy he can do a lot of things well. He gets a huge amount of joy learning how to use tools and build and do things.
His reaction to winning the train set was total joy and bliss. It was worth the long drive in a near blizzard and otherwise lousy train show just to enoy seeing his sheer delight with it.
I KNOW it isn't something most of us would be happy to win. I KNOW it isn't the same quality we have come to expect with our trains and layouts. BUT....I KNOW it's just a kids beginner train. As one depressing member keeps pointing out the track probably won't last long without issues, the plastic couplers probably won't hold up to a couple rambunctious 4 & 6 year old boys and it isn't up to Spectrum quality. Who cares? It has fired up a couple young ones to where they are checking out the Bachmann catalog on the website and have raided my collection of trains I had for sale and lightened the load by several new cars and are searching for some Plasticville buildings on feebay. Isn't that what we all claim to want from our youngsters? Everyone says we aren't getting younger modelers. I think this has helped add a couple to the fold. Maybe they will tire of the circle of track and move back the T-rex or maybe get more track, a chunk of plywood and more track? I think it's a wonderful thing in spite of Mr. Gloom who seems to only find negative things to keep throwing out about their treasure.
Today he was searching around the garage and barn looking for something. I asked him what he was looking for and he said, "A big board for the trains". Sounds great to me! The boy has a plan!
My original point was my surprise that Bachmann has improved the quality of their toy train stuff to where (MY OPINION!) it's where the "good stuff" in the 1950's was hoping to be.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
I am glad your grandkids are enjoying their bachmann set. Theres nothing wrong with that. I was simply pointing out that they would enjoy it longer with some reliability upgrades.
oldline1So maybe we need to rethink our poor opinion of what Bachmann puts out in the non-Spectrum world?
You asked this question. The answer is no. The price of a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts is a small price to pay for couplers that will last much longer than leaf springs.
Please correct me if they have changed that, but from what I could see the box says ez-mate (vice ez-mate mk2).
oldline1I KNOW it isn't something most of us would be happy to win.
Free is free. Thats not what my posts were about.
oldline1I KNOW it isn't the same quality we have come to expect with our trains and layouts.
Metal wheels is a start (the photos appear to have metal wheels). I re-iterate, a $1.92 price increase in the whole set, would fix 95% of my issues Bachmann.
oldline1BUT....I KNOW it's just a kids beginner train. As one depressing member keeps pointing out the track probably won't last long without issues, the plastic couplers probably won't hold up to a couple rambunctious 4 & 6 year old boys and it isn't up to Spectrum quality.
FWIW, the couplers dont hold up to a depressing 29 year old running at prototypical speeds, and performing switching. <---This is where my low opinion of the couplers comes from.
oldline1Who cares?
I do. Because I dont think that selling a train set to people that is designed to fail from the get go, or has known design flaws, is good for the hobby.
oldline1I think it's a wonderful thing in spite of Mr. Gloom who seems to only find negative things to keep throwing out about their treasure.
You are mistaking my comments as personal attacks. There is nothing personal. This is entirely about Bachmanns business practices (ONE DOLLAR and NINETY-TWO CENTS). Does that not seem absurd to you?
I never said I expect brass level craftsmanship (brass trains dont come with track or couplers).
Recently an author in a modeling magazine made this statement (paraphrasing): model manufacturers continue to make inferior products because the customers are not demanding superior products.
There MR/Lance Mindheim, I am on record as demanding a superior product. Get rid of the Ez-mate plastic leaf springs Bachmann.
Did anyone have to replace their Lionel post war track or couplers? My dads/uncles 1970s vintage set still runs, cars stay coupled.
Yes Bachmann has improved their trainset quality significantly. But their is still room for improvement.
And I will maintain my low opinion of their lower quality products due to the before mentioned and admitted low quality of said products.
The other reason I am vehmently opposed to just saying all is sunshine and roses when it isnt is because MR forum posts turn up near the top of Google search results.
How would you feel if someone went out and spent half a days pay on a train set on your recommendation and the couplers failed.....
Roger I think its great that this train set is spring-boarding your grandkids into the hobby. I hope they stay. Not everyone is as fortunate to have someone to guide them into the hobby.
Gloom and doom out.
Those Bachmann ready to run sets are great for starters. And, I have no real issues with the rolling stock, but after purchasing 2 44 ton switchers and trying to deal with the herky jerky way that they operate I will never buy another Bachmann locomotive again.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Personally, I think these Bachmann sets are great to get kids started. Heck, I was started on a Life-Like set in the early 80's myself. Through all the pancake motors, brass track, and unweighted cars that loved to derail, I never faltered in my love for trains. It was just time to clean the track again, rerail a car, whatever. I once scored a box full of old tyco and bachmann stuff at a yard sale and was thrilled. When I got it home and realized most were missing couplers, I didn't give up on them. I could barely wait until my next trip to Toys-R-Us to get new ones (the only hobby shop I knew back then).
BMMECNYC I re-iterate, a $1.92 price increase in the whole set, would fix 95% of my issues Bachmann.
Mike
Water Level RouteSeems a bit overboard over $1.92. For that price, just replace them yourself. You could be short changing yourself of some nice Bachmann models over some cheap couplers. Just figure them into the cost.
I have have over a dozen of the Bachmann silver series cars. Couplers being unreliable is just an annoyance, it doesnt prevent me from buying stuff. I even bought the orange Maine Central caboose that bachmann came out with a few years ago.
The point is unsuspecting people buying these sets for their kids and not realizing that the couplers are easily replaced, or the particular couplers in question shouldn't be on the cars to begin with. To add insult to injury, Bachmann sells the things as replacements as well....
The $1.92 was calculated by subtracting the difference in the bulk pack prices on Bachmann's website/dividing by number of coupler pairs per pack, then multiplying by the number of pieces in the starter set. So that $1.92 includes/maintains Bachmann's profit margin. Its a small increment cost with a large increment in quality.
Water Level RouteSeems a bit overboard over $1.92. For that price, just replace them yourself.
The price is a bit more when you change them yourself ($1.92 is a difference in price for a hypothetical starter set equipped with a higher quality product).
McHenrys dont stop me from buying Athearn, I just throw them into my scrap loads for gons. Kadees and their metal clones dont stop me from purchasing trains, I throw those into bags and re-sell them.
Ez-mate Mark 1 or 2 dont stop me, they get the same treatment as McHenrys.
BMMECNYC Water Level Route Seems a bit overboard over $1.92. For that price, just replace them yourself. The price is a bit more when you change them yourself ($1.92 is a difference in price for a hypothetical starter set equipped with a higher quality product). McHenrys dont stop me from buying Athearn, I just throw them into my scrap loads for gons. Kadees and their metal clones dont stop me from purchasing trains, I throw those into bags and re-sell them. Ez-mate Mark 1 or 2 dont stop me, they get the same treatment as McHenrys.
Water Level Route Seems a bit overboard over $1.92. For that price, just replace them yourself.
Water Level Route I'm guessing Sargent couplers.
They are excellent, if a bit fussy on the initial assembly. The E types come in 4 parts, with what I consider as an optional 5th. Assembly with the assembly jig is pretty straight forward. The double shelf couplers look and work like the prototype (if you stringline, it all will stay coupled). I currently use E type, SBE and SE types. I have a few H types that I will put together at some point, but Im modeling passenger cars built before before 1940, so I dont think I actually need them, and also they are not very forgiving on coupler height, so that may be an issue.
They are less expensive than Kadee, and assembled pre-directions, work perfectly. They do not couple to Kadee, so at the moment I am in a transitional stage, about half my rolling stock has been converted, and Im getting to those cars that I started out gluing coupler boxes.... also intermountain cars.. coupler boxes glued shut. <--Insert Price is Right Loosing Horn..>
Other than my own short sightedness (Kadee #5s were awesome, why would I ever switch to something else), I have had few if any problems converting my fleet. Some cars required more work than others, but most already had the differing coupler heights sorted out.
Water Level RouteNot so sure about unsuspecting folks not knowing about being able to replace couplers.
I didnt know, and neither did anyone at Toy's R Us... I didnt like the Horn Hooks and thought that was the only thing available (okay so that was 15+ years ago, times have changed a bit).
Please note also that before I switched to Sergents, all my Bachmann cars were upgraded to Kadee's because of the previously mentioned failure prone areas.
I got you. Thanks for the info on the sargents! I really do find them to be a very interesting alternative. Maybe someday for me.
Water Level Route I got you. Thanks for the info on the sargents! I really do find them to be a very interesting alternative. Maybe someday for me.
Forgot one of the best parts, no centering spring. You can couple on a curve.
BMMECNYC,
I have been following the "total" of a number of your comments here about entry level products.
I'm sorry your early experiances in the hobby did not include a good hobby shop with people to provide you with good info and support, or a local club, etc.
But your experiance of not knowing about, or not finding out about, the more advanced modeling products is not really typical. One trip to a train show, One decent club open house, one decent hobby shop should have made it clear there was more to model trains than a cheap department store train set.
And 15 years ago, in the information age? I had no problem finding out about and learning about better couplers, better track, better products and methods in this hobby at age 12.......in 1969........
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd 15 years ago, in the information age? I had no problem finding out about and learning about better couplers, better track, better products and methods in this hobby at age 12.......in 1969........
My very first issue of MR was in 2014. Somehow during the 1990s my family was able to afford a gift subscription to Railfan and Railroad Magazine (I have about 3years worth in my mothers basement), I had never heard of Model Railroader, I do not recall hearing about Railroad Model Craftsman either, though if I look back at those old issues, I might just find them. I never got my N scale equipment to run well, so I boxed it up and switched to O gauge (due to previous poor experience with HO).
2006 was the first year I used the internet widely, and I did so to purchase MTH O guage trains (via their product locator).
Not everyone 15 years ago had high speed or otherwise internet access. One of my supervisors at work said that when he joined the USN in 1997, people he went to boot camp with got their first pair of shoes at the age of 18 at boot camp (yes thats more than 15 years, but their are still people that poor in this country). Not saying that they would go out and buy a train set.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut your experiance of not knowing about, or not finding out about, the more advanced modeling products is not really typical. One trip to a train show, One decent club open house, one decent hobby shop should have made it clear there was more to model trains than a cheap department store train set.
There are places in this country were you can draw a 200mi radius circle and not hit a decent hobbyshop, train show, or a local club.
I also got sold AMI instant roadbed by a hobby shop (50mi drive)... For kicks I bought the Scenic Express product.
BMMECNYC ATLANTIC CENTRAL And 15 years ago, in the information age? I had no problem finding out about and learning about better couplers, better track, better products and methods in this hobby at age 12.......in 1969........ My very first issue of MR was in 2014. Somehow during the 1990s my family was able to afford a gift subscription to Railfan and Railroad Magazine (I have about 3years worth in my mothers basement), I had never heard of Model Railroader, I do not recall hearing about Railroad Model Craftsman either, though if I look back at those old issues, I might just find them. I never got my N scale equipment to run well, so I boxed it up and switched to O gauge (due to previous poor experience with HO). 2006 was the first year I used the internet widely, and I did so to purchase MTH O guage trains (via their product locator). Not everyone 15 years ago had high speed or otherwise internet access. One of my supervisors at work said that when he joined the USN in 1997, people he went to boot camp with got their first pair of shoes at the age of 18 at boot camp (yes thats more than 15 years, but their are still people that poor in this country). Not saying that they would go out and buy a train set. ATLANTIC CENTRAL But your experiance of not knowing about, or not finding out about, the more advanced modeling products is not really typical. One trip to a train show, One decent club open house, one decent hobby shop should have made it clear there was more to model trains than a cheap department store train set. There are places in this country were you can draw a 200mi radius circle and not hit a decent hobbyshop, train show, or a local club. I also got sold AMI instant roadbed by a hobby shop (50mi drive)... For kicks I bought the Scenic Express product.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And 15 years ago, in the information age? I had no problem finding out about and learning about better couplers, better track, better products and methods in this hobby at age 12.......in 1969........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But your experiance of not knowing about, or not finding out about, the more advanced modeling products is not really typical. One trip to a train show, One decent club open house, one decent hobby shop should have made it clear there was more to model trains than a cheap department store train set.
I understand, you should just understand that your experiance is not really typical.
I will conceed this is a hobby with a learning curve, and without some help it can be discouraging.
And yes, the products have in the past, and still do, come in a wide range of prices and quality levels, aimed at different segments ofthe market.
Take care,
For last twenty years I stayed away from Bachmann locomotives due to the negatives comments I kept reading on various forums. About two years ago I decided to give them a shot and purchased a Alco S2 and loved it. Since then, I have purchased at GP7, GP9 and RS3. I love them, reasonable details, smooth running and reasonably priced at my local hobby store. I only wished I had tried Bachmann a bit earlier!
That's also a great story about the quality time that you spent with your grandson. I look forward to the time, if and when I have grandkids!
Speaking of winning the door prize, I was at a train show about 7 years ago, I just walked in the door, put my ticket in the jar and my name was called. I won an A-B set of Bachmann Plus F7's! In my favorite road name! Now, I already had a set of these, but, as I always say, you can never have enough trains! Fortunately, the only duplicate road number was on the B unit. These are very good running locos; I have no complaints about the quality.
DRfan Since then, I have purchased at GP7, GP9 and RS3. I love them, reasonable details, smooth running and reasonably priced at my local hobby store.
Theres a deal on the GP7s at trainworld or mb klein or someone, might grab a Chessie (for the wife) one and a Boston and Maine one if they are a good buy.
DRfan For last twenty years I stayed away from Bachmann locomotives due to the negatives comments I kept reading on various forums.
For last twenty years I stayed away from Bachmann locomotives due to the negatives comments I kept reading on various forums.
That probably saved you some grief!
About two years ago I decided to give them a shot and purchased a Alco S2 and loved it. Since then, I have purchased at GP7, GP9 and RS3. I love them, reasonable details, smooth running and reasonably priced at my local hobby store. I only wished I had tried Bachmann a bit earlier!
It's only been the last approx 10 year that Bachmann up'd their game so probably good you didn't try them earlier ;)
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 DRfan For last twenty years I stayed away from Bachmann locomotives due to the negatives comments I kept reading on various forums. That probably saved you some grief! About two years ago I decided to give them a shot and purchased a Alco S2 and loved it. Since then, I have purchased at GP7, GP9 and RS3. I love them, reasonable details, smooth running and reasonably priced at my local hobby store. I only wished I had tried Bachmann a bit earlier! It's only been the last approx 10 year that Bachmann up'd their game so probably good you didn't try them earlier ;)
With diesels, true, but the Spectrum steamers go back 15 years or more as top notch pieces in many cases. The real peak for Spectrum steam was from about 2000 to 2010, then they started to slow down the offerings.
The four diesels mentioned above, everyone I know who has bought them is very happy with the running qualities. And while not "high end" in the detail department, they arevery nice for their price range.
And for some people, 10 years ago is along time, for an old guy like me, it feels like last month......
Great story Roger
I credit Bachamnn with having the brains and the guts to put out a very smooth running HO scale Shay engine, before you had to toil and invest in an MDC/Roundhouse kit, or an expensive brass loco. It brough many of us back into the hobby sooner, as these locos were priced affordably, and ran out of the box. Even when they did experience a splitting gear problems, they quickly improved and supplied gears in their rather awesome online parts deptartment, which hasn't been mentioned that I could see. Many a scratchbuilders dream parts can be found there.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
ATLANTIC CENTRAL riogrande5761 DRfan For last twenty years I stayed away from Bachmann locomotives due to the negatives comments I kept reading on various forums. That probably saved you some grief! About two years ago I decided to give them a shot and purchased a Alco S2 and loved it. Since then, I have purchased at GP7, GP9 and RS3. I love them, reasonable details, smooth running and reasonably priced at my local hobby store. I only wished I had tried Bachmann a bit earlier! It's only been the last approx 10 year that Bachmann up'd their game so probably good you didn't try them earlier ;) With diesels, true, but the Spectrum steamers go back 15 years or more as top notch pieces in many cases. Sheldon
With diesels, true, but the Spectrum steamers go back 15 years or more as top notch pieces in many cases.
Yes, diesels, which is probably the largest share of engine Bachmann sales. I have always read good reviews for Bachmann Spectrum steam going back to the early 1990's so I'd think anything Bachmann Spectrum steam would be a good bet; I think it was a different person in charge of that part of the operation. Bachmann diesels have historically been low quality and only in the last approx. 10 years have I been reading about major improvements to the chassis and power train, and I've noticed the paint jobs are better. For me, a D&RGW fan, there are definitely better alternatives to some of the Bachmann diesel offering painted for Rio Grande such as Atlas and Athearn Genesis; I don't own any Bachmann since I sold the only two I ever bought, Bachmann Spectrum F40PH's, which turned out to be a major disappointment.
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL riogrande5761 DRfan For last twenty years I stayed away from Bachmann locomotives due to the negatives comments I kept reading on various forums. That probably saved you some grief! About two years ago I decided to give them a shot and purchased a Alco S2 and loved it. Since then, I have purchased at GP7, GP9 and RS3. I love them, reasonable details, smooth running and reasonably priced at my local hobby store. I only wished I had tried Bachmann a bit earlier! It's only been the last approx 10 year that Bachmann up'd their game so probably good you didn't try them earlier ;) With diesels, true, but the Spectrum steamers go back 15 years or more as top notch pieces in many cases. Sheldon Yes, diesels, which is probably the largest share of engine Bachmann sales. I have always read good reviews for Bachmann Spectrum steam going back to the early 1990's so I'd think anything Bachmann Spectrum steam would be a good bet; I think it was a different person in charge of that part of the operation. Bachmann diesels have historically been low quality and only in the last approx. 10 years have I been reading about major improvements to the chassis and power train, and I've noticed the paint jobs are better. For me, a D&RGW fan, there are definitely better alternatives to some of the Bachmann diesel offering painted for Rio Grande such as Atlas and Athearn Genesis; I don't own any Bachmann since I sold the only two I ever bought, Bachmann Spectrum F40PH's, which turned out to be a major disappointment.
Again, we are complete agreement about Bachmann diesels. The only Bachmann diesels I have are the specialty ones that relate to my era, the 44 Tonner, the 70 Tonner, and some doodlebugs.
All of which are nice models, and run well enough. The 44 Tonner and 70 Tonner run well but are a lttle noisy.....
You might be under estimating Spectrum, and even Regular Line steam sales over the last 15-20 years. Amoung modelers I know, they are everywhere in great volumes. One local shop in this region always has hundreds in stock, and while some have been there a while, you can clearly see rapid turnover and high volumes of sales for most items. They do have very good prices on Bachmann......
I have 35 of them, I only have 7 steamers from BLI.... Another friend who recently passed had four shays, two 10 wheelers, three 2-8-0's, etc.
Among those who model steam, they are likely way more abundant than BLI......
Partly due to the much wider selection of sizes and types.......and much greater number of smaller types, more friendly to smaller layouts.......and older eras.
One strategy that's just been touched on a little: Start with the lower-end equipment and improve it. About a third of my rolling stock was low-end freight cars. I've converted to frame-mounted Kadees, added weight and weathering, and remounted the trucks for better control of side-side motion. My son started with the Bachmann Amtrak set from the 80s, on that one we remounted the F40 shell on an Athearn GP38 chassis. All my locos have been retrofitted with directional lighting.
I don't have the great detail that a fine modern piece has, but my goal is to make it look reasonably good to a trained eye, and fantastic to an untrained eye. The incremental approach lets me do that at minimum cost, maximum fun time and greatest improvement of my personal skill set.
Genesee Terminal, freelanced HO in Upstate NY ...hosting Loon Bay Transit Authority, run through Amtrak and CSX Intermodal
CP/D&H, N scale, somewhere on the Canadian Shield