The Big Boy thread prompted the question. I agree with the respondent who said some of the comments (mine included) were negative. So let's be positive. What do we want?
Some suggestions:
1. BLI could possibly offer their forthcoming T&P 2-10-4 in a Chicago Great Western version. Or maybe an aftermarket producer could offer a modification kit to allow a modeler to make the mods himself.
2. A B&LE/DM&IR/CB&Q 2-10-4. If properly designed from the beginning, it would be possible for this engine to be offered in several of its variations.
3. Lima A-1 2-8-4. Variations could be offered for B&A, B&M, IC, and secondhand units on the SP and ATSF. Again, this presumes that the model engine is designed from the beginning to allow for these variations.
4. D&H/CRI&P/MILW/SP GS-2/WP/Cof Ga 4-8-4 (Model Railroader Cyc. No. 1, drawings 106,109 & 112). The running gear and boiler are about the same, but details vary. Unless I'm mistaken, the SOO 4-8-4's were close too. These variations could be accommodated by designing these options into the models from the start.
There is an opportunity for aftermarket manufacturers to produce modification kits that would give us some other specific prototypes, based on commercially available generic models, such as USRA's. GHQ has made this work in N scale.
Tom
I would like to see the DMIR Yellowstone. The 2-10-4 would be another one I would like to see.
Since Athearn is doing the NP/SP&S Z-8, I'd like them to do follow-on NP/SP&S/GN Z-6's.
Ed
I would like a B&LE Texan
If we are in fact speaking articulateds in plastic with sound and DCC here I think the DRGW L105 4-6-6-4 Challenger would be a popular choice.
DRGW standard gauge being a road of choice for many modelers.
ACY The Big Boy thread prompted the question. I agree with the respondent who said some of the comments (mine included) were negative. So let's be positive. What do we want? Some suggestions: 1. BLI could possibly offer their forthcoming T&P 2-10-4 in a Chicago Great Western version. Or maybe an aftermarket producer could offer a modification kit to allow a modeler to make the mods himself. 2. A B&LE/DM&IR/CB&Q 2-10-4. If properly designed from the beginning, it would be possible for this engine to be offered in several of its variations. 3. Lima A-1 2-8-4. Variations could be offered for B&A, B&M, IC, and secondhand units on the SP and ATSF. Again, this presumes that the model engine is designed from the beginning to allow for these variations. 4. D&H/CRI&P/MILW/SP GS-2/WP/Cof Ga 4-8-4 (Model Railroader Cyc. No. 1, drawings 106,109 & 112). The running gear and boiler are about the same, but details vary. Unless I'm mistaken, the SOO 4-8-4's were close too. These variations could be accommodated by designing these options into the models from the start. There is an opportunity for aftermarket manufacturers to produce modification kits that would give us some other specific prototypes, based on commercially available generic models, such as USRA's. GHQ has made this work in N scale. Tom
You're still making the mistake of choosing relatively large power rather than more layout friendly small to medium sized power ( 2-6-0, 2-6-2, 2-8-0, 4-6-0, light 4-6-2 smaller than USRA).
examples: 2-6-0 - Wabash F-4, SP M-4 or M -6
2-6-2 - Santa Fe 1050 class, NP T-1, Milwaukee K-1
2-8-0 - Santa Fe 1950 class, SP C-8/9/10 and UP variants (Harriman Standard), NYC G-46, Southern Ks-1
4-6-0 - SP T-28/31/32, C&NW R-1, Cotton Belt G-1
4-6-2 - Santa Fe 1226 class, SP P-4, NYC K-11, MEC C-3
Andre
An HO UP correct 4-6-2 pacific, please.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Thanks for asking, Tom
Two of my wants & wishes would be for a New York Central K-3 or K-5b or K-11 Pacific. One of the classes with a nice, big, Elesco feedwater heater on her forehead would be frosting on the cake! P&LE, B&A, and Big Four versions could be produced, too.
http://www.railarchive.net/nyccollection/nyc4933.htm
Second would be a Nickel Plate Hudson either the L-1a or L-1b
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=351284&nseq=1
Both are sweet, high-stepping, versatile locomotives that I feel would fill a void in that weight/size class.
Happy Steaming, Ed
andrechapelon ACY The Big Boy thread prompted the question. I agree with the respondent who said some of the comments (mine included) were negative. So let's be positive. What do we want? Some suggestions: 1. BLI could possibly offer their forthcoming T&P 2-10-4 in a Chicago Great Western version. Or maybe an aftermarket producer could offer a modification kit to allow a modeler to make the mods himself. 2. A B&LE/DM&IR/CB&Q 2-10-4. If properly designed from the beginning, it would be possible for this engine to be offered in several of its variations. 3. Lima A-1 2-8-4. Variations could be offered for B&A, B&M, IC, and secondhand units on the SP and ATSF. Again, this presumes that the model engine is designed from the beginning to allow for these variations. 4. D&H/CRI&P/MILW/SP GS-2/WP/Cof Ga 4-8-4 (Model Railroader Cyc. No. 1, drawings 106,109 & 112). The running gear and boiler are about the same, but details vary. Unless I'm mistaken, the SOO 4-8-4's were close too. These variations could be accommodated by designing these options into the models from the start. There is an opportunity for aftermarket manufacturers to produce modification kits that would give us some other specific prototypes, based on commercially available generic models, such as USRA's. GHQ has made this work in N scale. Tom You're still making the mistake of choosing relatively large power rather than more layout friendly small to medium sized power ( 2-6-0, 2-6-2, 2-8-0, 4-6-0, light 4-6-2 smaller than USRA). examples: 2-6-0 - Wabash F-4, SP M-4 or M -6 2-6-2 - Santa Fe 1050 class, NP T-1, Milwaukee K-1 2-8-0 - Santa Fe 1950 class, SP C-8/9/10 and UP variants (Harriman Standard), NYC G-46, Southern Ks-1 4-6-0 - SP T-28/31/32, C&NW R-1, Cotton Belt G-1 4-6-2 - Santa Fe 1226 class, SP P-4, NYC K-11, MEC C-3 Andre
Andre is right - see, its like this, if you look up the numbers, everything bigger than a 2-8-2 was relatively rare.
Among articulated locos, the 2-6-6-2 with 1,300 examples is the winner. Few other articulated wheel arrangements were represented by more than a few hundred copies each. 2-8-8-2's migh have been close to a 1,000 total.
Here are some numbers - names and wheel arrangements for any nubies
2-8-4 Bershire - 750
2-10-4 Texas - 450
2-10-2 Santa Fe - 2,200
4-6-4 Hudson - only 500
4-8-4 Northerns - barely 1,000
4-8-2 Mountain - pretty prolific for a big engine at 2,400 (the ATLANTIC CENTRAL has 9 of them)
4-10-2 Overland - 69
Now for the popular wheel arrangements:
2-8-0 Consolidation - 33,000, yes 33,000
4-6-0 10 wheeler - 17,000
2-8-2 Mikado - 14,000
2-6-0 Mogal - 11,000
4-4-0 American - 25,000
4-6-2 Pacific - 6,800
So even in the days of post war steam, a trip down to the tracks was likely to yield what? a view of a Big Boy? or, more likely, a 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 4-6-0 or 4-6-2 - just like the odds in Vegas.
One of the largest railroads of the steam era never owned a 4-8-4 or a 2-8-4, and while they had a nice fleet of articulated locos, the only rigid wheel base locos bigger than a 4-8-2 was their fleet of 2-10-2's - the B&O - but they owned 610 2-8-2's.
Sheldon
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
I would like to see a B&M accurate 2-6-0 (B-15), and a MEC accurate 4-6-0 (the O class version with inside valve gear).
I would like to see am EJ&E Baldwin center cab, both as delivered and after the EMD rebuild. The other would be a Mckeen motor car.
Does any manufacturer currently produce a decent 2-6-2, even a generic one?
- Douglas
Think your all missing the point here......small while much more practical is boring to us manly man types .........big as Tim Allen said is MORE POWER!!!!!ARRRRRGH!!!
The point about smaller power is very well taken. Back in 1958 and 1959, my dad would take me down to the B&O roundhouse in town. The railroaders were very welcoming, and I was allowed to play on the last steam engine in town: Not a big Mallet, but a Q-4 2-8-2. The world was different then. I'm currently negotiating a purchase/trade to acquire three locos for my own collection: a 2-6-0 and two 2-8-0's. And my most recent purchase was another 2-8-0, so I cetainly have no objection to smaller power. My suggestions were just to get the ball rolling.
I believe a good Harriman 2-8-0 (57" drivers, please) would be popular. Same for a Harriman 2-8-2. I also believe somebody would do well to offer aftermarket mod kits for the Walthers USRA 0-6-0 and 0-8-0. Lots of possibilities there, including a WWII era version of the military 0-6-0, which found favor on a lot of US industrial and short lines.
As for diesels, the F-M H20-44 wore two demonstrator schemes and was used in fairly large numbers by PRR, NYC, IHB, and P&WV (and later, N&W), as well as AC&Y, UP, and SW Portland Cement. Then there's the Lima switcher. Neither of these has been done as a R-T-R model.
For narrow gauge, I suspect there would be a market for an HOn3 ET&WNC 4-6-0 or an EBT 2-8-2. Nobody has ever seriously tried to open that market, AFAIK.
Getting back to big power, the WM and D&RGW L-105 Baldwin 4-6-6-4's were based on the same design, so there is another opportunity to cover two roads with one basic design (with appropriate detail variations). Two geographical market areas, too.
And let's not forget the other Van Sweringen Berkshires. Those of L&N, W&LE, and Erie used very similar boilers and running gear to the many NKP and C&O based models currently available. Reruns with appropriate detail changes might be a cost-effective way to get more mileage out of established basic model designs.
Burlington Steam If we are in fact speaking articulateds in plastic with sound and DCC here I think the DRGW L105 4-6-6-4 Challenger would be a popular choice. DRGW standard gauge being a road of choice for many modelers.
For my money, THE most beautiful Challenger ever built. Period! Well, along with the Alco Z-6,7 and 8's of the NP/SP&S. But those Baldwin-built Rio Grande 3700's were big, long, heavy, fast and POWERFUL! 105,000 lbs of tractive effort put the more popular Union Pacific version in the shade. They were versatile. Originally designed for the Utah Lines between Ogden and Grand Junction, Colorado, they were fast enough for expidited freights and powerful enough for Rio Grande's difficult Rocky mountain 2-state profile. There are photos of them hauling freight on the 3% grades of Tennessee Pass looking no more overworked than they do on the flat-lands of the Utah deserts or the long up-and-down profile of the Front Range line between Denver and Pueblo. The Grande loved them. When they tried to get more during WWII, the design was frozen and they ended up with half a dozen UP clones, which were about as successful on Rio Grande's difficult profile as a tricycle pumping up Pikes Peak.
Several importers have made the 105's in brass, but as yet, none in plastic. It wouldn't be just like sticking "Rio Grande" on a UP and calling it "done", it would have to be built from the ground up. But with what I've seen as a growing interest in Rio Grande STANDARD GAUGE steam, it might be worth the try. Athearn, how about it? You're already making plans to do the NP Z-8, why not squeeze out a 105 with a couple of tweaks of the dies, lol? My two Westside brass 105 babies could use some company.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
ACYAnd let's not forget the other Van Sweringen Berkshires. Those of L&N, W&LE, and Erie used very similar boilers and running gear to the many NKP and C&O based models currently available. Reruns with appropriate detail changes might be a cost-effective way to get more mileage out of established basic model designs.
And the Virginian Berks - identical to the NKP and C&O locos except for a third steam/sand dome configuration - why has no one done that loco?
I would also like to see the UP H7 or how about the SF 2-10-10-2 with the whale back tender, now that would be something.
The only articulates owned by the NYC were 2-6-6-2, how about them.
Even though I'm in N scale I would like to see a really nice mogal 2-6-0 for a small switching layout in HO, kind of like what Brakie has done. I have always been impressed with what he was able to do in such a small space and I think the 2-6-0 would be perfect for that.
Ralph
A camelback 2-8-0, actually a camelback boiler that would fit on the Bachmann or Roundhouse mechanisms. That way we could have a 4-4-0 or 4-6-0 or a 4-4-0, 2-6-0 or 2-8-0. All plausible arrangements.
Yes why would we want a smaller engine that actually worked for 30 or 40 years and were the backbone of the US railroad system when whe could have one of those big prima donna engines that couldn't run on half the layouts and were generally obsolete when built or within a decade of being built.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
N&W Class M 4-8-0
If the models were available, I'd be in the early 1900's.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
So many Mikados. So few models.
ACYFor narrow gauge, I suspect there would be a market for an HOn3 ET&WNC 4-6-0 or an EBT 2-8-2. Nobody has ever seriously tried to open that market, AFAIK.
Depends on your definition of serious, Tom. Both have been available in brass and IIRC both were included on the several motive power surveys Blackstone did a few years back. The Tweetsie will likely remain pretty marginal, gone too soon for people to even remember back in the 60s.
The EBT was still running until recently and had a very modelable operation. The big problem was all those hoppers, which Blackstone solved. They've been selling somewhat slower than Colorado stuff, but I think it's been a boon to EBT fans. The brass Mikes usually fetch good prices and the motorcar can be hard to find at a reasonable cost. I lost several auctions trying to acquire one back when I could still afford brass when really needed. Whether this will ever translate into a mass market model loco, the best chance woul be a conversion of a Blackstone, but this will likely be a DIY project.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Yeah...I'm just UP'ed out. I live in UP country very near the ex-SP Overland route. And I see them everyday along I80. The real 4014 will definitely be a sight when finished...though.
There are a few locomotives I would like to see as something other than brass. BLI, Bachmann, eh...or maybe MTH. Probably have to take out a second on my house to buy an MTH.
Reading K1 2-10-2
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_rdg3016.jpg
DMIR 2-8-8-4
Western Maryland 4-6-6-4
Delaware and Hudson 4-6-6-4
Western Maryland 4-8-4
There are others...this was just a start.
Mark H
Modeling in HO...Reading and Conrail together in an alternate history.
We need a new D&SL 2-6-6-0, a smaller articulated locomotive thats going to look ok on 24" (HO) curves. But not a logging locomotive. It was used on mountain mainline service for 3 decades.
-E-C-MillsWe need a new D&SL 2-6-6-0, a smaller articulated locomotive thats going to look ok on 24" (HO) curves. But not a logging locomotive. It was used on mountain mainline service for 3 decades.
Yeah, good idea. And how about a Rio Grande C-48? I would really like to see Blackstone do that as their first standard gauge engine, which will happen eventually.
The first brass loco I ever bought new was United's D&SL 2-6-6-0. A beautiful model and good runner on my older DC layout of the 70's.
Now that I am in HOn3, I liked the long front on the old D&SL so much that I am planning to bash one of my several Blackstone K-27s to a special MOW train engine. I hope to extend the front beam and pilot wheels to mount a large pivoted, movable work light low on the extension which will double as a large running light on my Paradox Uravan and Placerville road.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Mike
ATLANTIC CENTRAL ACY And let's not forget the other Van Sweringen Berkshires. Those of L&N, W&LE, and Erie used very similar boilers and running gear to the many NKP and C&O based models currently available. Reruns with appropriate detail changes might be a cost-effective way to get more mileage out of established basic model designs. And the Virginian Berks - identical to the NKP and C&O locos except for a third steam/sand dome configuration - why has no one done that loco? Sheldon
ACY And let's not forget the other Van Sweringen Berkshires. Those of L&N, W&LE, and Erie used very similar boilers and running gear to the many NKP and C&O based models currently available. Reruns with appropriate detail changes might be a cost-effective way to get more mileage out of established basic model designs.
The tenders were different also.
RR
An early Consolidation. Or any other early steamer with a Belpaire firebox.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
BMMECNYC I would like to see a B&M accurate 2-6-0 (B-15), and a MEC accurate 4-6-0 (the O class version with inside valve gear).
Actually, the old IHC 2-6-0 isn't a bad stand in for the B15. Here is the IHC model,
A
.And here is the old brass PFM model B15.
The IHC (now out of business, but still reasonably available) is pretty close. It lacks the distinctive swelled boiler of the B15, the bell is in the wrong place (an easy fix), but it's not a bad standin.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com