DAVID FORTNEY With all the angst about the large engines the reason they are being made is that they sell. The smaller prototypes of which I have quite a few are really nice but you have to admit there is something about a big boy, Y6b, etc. running around your layout. I have almost every type of articulated engine ever made from the triplex to the big boy and Y6b. When the urge its me they come off the shelf and onto the track for a trip around the layout. Visitors love the big engines, they could care less about a 2-8-0. Big mainline engines are where it is at, climb on board.
With all the angst about the large engines the reason they are being made is that they sell. The smaller prototypes of which I have quite a few are really nice but you have to admit there is something about a big boy, Y6b, etc. running around your layout.
I have almost every type of articulated engine ever made from the triplex to the big boy and Y6b. When the urge its me they come off the shelf and onto the track for a trip around the layout. Visitors love the big engines, they could care less about a 2-8-0.
Big mainline engines are where it is at, climb on board.
As has already been stated - Big Boys pulling 12 cars on 22 inch radius look silly (actually they look silly on any curve less than about 40").
One 2-8-0 might not be very "impressive", but three of them pulling 40 cars is.
Hardly any train on my layout is pulled by one loco - except lessor passenger trains - 5 cars behind a single Pacific - double and triple heading is the rule here - even with the big power in most cases - but we pull long trains.
And, as has been stated - many of us have no interest in seeing a Big Boy and a Y6b on the same railroad - it never happened.
So to each their own.
There is no evidence that these choices on the part of the manufacturers are strickly market driven - why you ask?
Because for over two decades Bachmann has made every size of steam and diesel loco and clearly sold massive numbers of all of them. I suspect the total sales of Bachmann 2-8-0's are ten times BLI's total sales combined - why else would they still be making them 20 plus years later - with nearly continious availablity?
And while Bachmann has done their share of bigger power, much of it has been locos not offered by others - or they offered it first. If big power is all the rage, why did it take so long to get a B&O EM-1? Why no WM Challengers?
Largest company in this business? Likely Bachmann. There must be money in it, they are the only company in the hobby that has stock holders to answer to.
I am not making as much of a statement about size as I am about variety. We don't need six Big Boys to choose from, we need four or five of those companies to make something else - big or small.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALI am not making as much of a statement about size as I am about variety. We don't need six Big Boys to choose from, we need four or five of those companies to make something else - big or small. Sheldon
To expand on this thought - main point that keeps being missed - sure, some people just buy whatever is impressive and available to the limits of their descressionary spending.
But not everyone thinks that way.
The question is how much business is bing missed by not making more variety?
I think it is a lot.
I want some modern east coast 10 wheelers for my layout - the money that I would spend on them is not spent on something else just to spend it - in fact the $1,000 or so I would be willing to spend to add 4 or 6 such locos to my roster is money that will not be spent on this hobby if I never get them - because everything else my layout requires will be bought - with or without the ten wheelers.
This is where the manufacturers are missing the boat - they need to work on expanding the market - not fighting over the known parts of it.
And I think the manufacturers are smart, not stupid. I don't model the steam era anyway so I don't give a crap what they produce, but I'm unwilling to assume that they have no marketing data, or don't use what they have, or use it wrong.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Well, since we got a B&O EM-1, we might as well get the EL-3 2-8-8-0 which was used everywhere there was a grade on the B&O and they looked cool with that giant Vanderbilt Tender.
Also on the B&O the S-1 and S-1A 2-10-2 of which there were 125 made and could be found on freight and mineral trains all over the B&O.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
dti406 Well, since we got a B&O EM-1, we might as well get the EL-3 2-8-8-0 which was used everywhere there was a grade on the B&O and they looked cool with that giant Vanderbilt Tender. Also on the B&O the S-1 and S-1A 2-10-2 of which there were 125 made and could be found on freight and mineral trains all over the B&O. Rick J
Agreed, two great locos that it would be nice to see made - large or not.
There was however one place on the B&O where you never saw an S class loco - lines west from Cumberland to Grafton, over the Allegeny summit. They tried one once and rolled over on its side - the curves were too sharp.
I understand B&O Big Sixes (S-1 2-10-2's) were used on 17 Mile Grade, but I'm not sure whether they operated over the summit to Grafton. They were commonly used on the main lines from Brunswick, MD to Chicago; Cincinnati to Toledo; as well as Holloway, OH to Willard. They were particularly numerous on the main line between Cumberland and New Castle (via Pittsburgh). The last ones I saw were on a dead line in Willard in 1958 or 59.
Tom
Blasphemy! Heresy! Burn the witch!
Or, you could just do what a Robin Williams line in "The Survivors" suggested doing. IIRC, it involved smoking something really nasty in the nether regions of Hades.
Here's a thought for the manufacturers. Capitalize on what you already have to create something that hasn't been done yet. Right now, Bachmann has a good percentage of the components to follow up their EM-1 with a T-3 4-8-2. They have a useable chassis in the USRA 4-8-2 and they've got a tender for it. http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?//july99/07-07-99/bxo5575.jpg
Yo, BLI, how's about a Santa Fe 3450 class 4-6-4 (after modernization)? The NYC Hudson chassis can be used as a starting point and the tender from your 3751 class 4-8-4 will work just fine. Even better, ATSF 3450 still exists out in Pomona, CA. Here's a pic of her in 1960 just prior to going into the fairgrounds: http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/9/5/5495.1318851405.jpg
BLI, you've already done the 3751 class 4-8-4 and the 3800 class 2-10-2. Why not take it one step farther? There are lots of Santa Fe fans out there. And spice it up a little bit. Here's a modernized 4-6-4 with the double sandboxes and the same tender you're using on the 3800 class. Have at it. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/tr_sf3455.jpg
Oh, BTW, BLI and while we're at it, that brass hybrid NH I-4? There's a useable chassis for for a Santa Fe 3400 class 4-6-2. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/pacific/atsf3424-wessel.jpg
The I-4 chassis is also useable for a Erie K5a. In its final form, that's one of the prettiest Pacifics ever to grace the rails. Even better, it's kind of a neat engine for the free lancer, especially if you get the boiler proportions right. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3062565
Why invest in completely new tooling just to try to take Big Boy/Challenger/GS-4/N&W J (you get the idea) market share away from that spawn of Satan competitor of yours? Do something original. And I don't mean removing the Belpaire firebox off a Pennsy H9/H10 and trying to pass it off with a different tender and different road name. Fer crying out loud, at least offer it with a centered headlight.
Andre
The B&O also had a Small fleet of 2-10-0's that they inherited when they acquired the BR&P Ry in 1932. Some of these Decapods lasted until the late 1940's.