Doughless, you are using your own estimates to quote shipping charges, and that is fine. What I am talking about is using eBay's shipping calculator which almost universally overcharges the shipping cost as its default option.
As far as the USPS Medium Flat Rate shipping box is concerned, it is too small for items such as locomotives, set of passenger cars, etc., especially if it is to be packed and insulated properly.
Rich
Alton Junction
Perhaps I do things too simply, since I'm having a difficult time following some of the comments.
I type in the amount of the shipping I will charge when I fill in the form that describes the item...the listing screen. It asks for "shipping". I type in anything from $5.95 to $9.95 depending upon the size of the item I'm selling, knowing that larger boxes take up more mail-truck space and size of box determines shipping price more so than weight (I think).
I usually make about 2 bucks on shipping, because most buyers just pay the reasonable stated shiiping charges right away and don't bother asking for an invoice. The few bucks I make on most of the transactions pay for the few dollars of shipping costs I lose when I have to ship an item to a buyer in CA, (which costs $14.00) and I've only collected $9.95 on shipping.
Most items that I sell can fit into a $12.35 Medium Flat Rate box, so I have a few of those laying around for when I need to ship to the west coast and just eat the few dollars difference.
Of course, I always sell with a high starting bid close to the items market value, so I don't get burned on selling something way underpriced, then have to eat shipping charges because I listed the item with a $7.95 shipping charge and someone from CA buys it.
No matter the buyers' locoation, old Proto locos with the huge bluish box take a medium sized USPS box to ship. If I'm selling one of those, I always list shipping as $11.95 knowing that I'll use one of the Medium Flat Rate boxes at $12.35, then just eat the 40 cents.
- Douglas
Rich .. I won't argue with your 13% ... My wife sells other stuff on ebay and her experience is 15% or more, but it is not model railroad items.
In either case, it is a big part of S&H.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
One other point. As a seller, I take eBay/PayPal fees into account when I price the starting bid. I do not try to recover my fees as part of the shipping charge.
Of course, either way, the buyer still pays the cost including the winning bid and the shipping charge. But, it rightfully appears more equitable to the buyer to see a fair shipping charge based upon what the seller will actually incur.
Another thing that I take into account as a seller is the fair market value of what I am selling. This is somewhat subjective of course. But say that I bought a locomotive for $150 and now wish to sell it in good condition, believing it to be worth $75 to a buyer. I will set that price as the starting bid without regard to the 13% fee that I will incur as a seller. To me, the eBay/PayPal fee is a cost of doing business with a nationwide set of interested buyers. Where else can I get such a widespread audience?
Heartland Division CB&Q YGW ... Sellers pay big fees to Ebay and PayPal ..... It is 15% or more of your total payment including Shipping and Handling. Your example. Item Price: $15.00 Shipping and Handling: $7.50 Total .... $22.50. Estimated fees paid by seller ... 15% X $22.50 = $3.38. Add that to postage, and you can see that is a reason why sellers must charge so much for Shipping & Handling
YGW ...
Sellers pay big fees to Ebay and PayPal ..... It is 15% or more of your total payment including Shipping and Handling.
Your example.
Item Price: $15.00
Shipping and Handling: $7.50
Total .... $22.50.
Estimated fees paid by seller ... 15% X $22.50 = $3.38.
Add that to postage, and you can see that is a reason why sellers must charge so much for Shipping & Handling
Small point, but the seller's fees are closer to 13 percent than 15 percent.
mlehman richhotrain MIke, it's not a volume thing. From my own experience, I can tell you that it applies to single auctions by low volume sellers as well. In this link, eBay mentions discounts up to 37 percent, but I have experienced discounts up to 54 percent. If you spend some time Googling, you will find commentaries about this. http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/ship-smart/advanced-shipping/shipping-best-practices.html Rich OK, that's useful. I did see the 35% discount. I'm definitely not 2,500 transactions. I guess my "above standard" status is not "top-rated" quite yet. I don't offer "free shipping" which may be holding me back there, too, as that seems somehow linked?
richhotrain MIke, it's not a volume thing. From my own experience, I can tell you that it applies to single auctions by low volume sellers as well. In this link, eBay mentions discounts up to 37 percent, but I have experienced discounts up to 54 percent. If you spend some time Googling, you will find commentaries about this. http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/ship-smart/advanced-shipping/shipping-best-practices.html Rich
OK, that's useful. I did see the 35% discount. I'm definitely not 2,500 transactions. I guess my "above standard" status is not "top-rated" quite yet. I don't offer "free shipping" which may be holding me back there, too, as that seems somehow linked?
I never offer Free Shipping. It is too risky.
The big problem with shipping charges on eBay transactions is that you don't know beforehand where the seller lives (i.e., zip code). Except for USPS Flat Rate, which is a tough way to ship because of the limited box sizes (most are too small), you have to ship in customized boxes, so I keep every cardboard box that we receive in our household.
When I sell an item, I package it beforehand so that I know the size and weight of the box. Living here in Illinois, it will be cheaper to ship to Missouri or Wisconsin or Michigan than to ship to New York, Texas, or California.
But, if you use eBay's default shipping arrangement, it will automatically state a shipping charge based upon the bidder's zip code. But, as I pointed out earlier, the shipping charge is grossly overstated compared to what the seller will eventually be billed for by PayPal. So, this excessive shipping charge tends to discourage a lot of would-be bidders.
Blame eBay, not the seller. A relatively inexperienced seller, selling a used piece of MR equipment, is not going to wind up offering the least expensive shipping charge because he doesn't know better.
YGW,
First....shipping costs have gone up considerably in recent years and the seller needs to recoup his costs for boxes, packing and tape. Some folks even have to pay someone to take shipments to the PO and have to get that money back too.
Second...feebay dictates the shipping costs and they are unreasonably low sometimes and high at times. I tried getting around the stupid cost structure and couldn't so just decided to not sell using feebay and concentrate on several Yahoo Groups. I had an auction for an S scale Overland N&W class A 2-6-6-4 and aux tender I was listing and the automatic feebay shipping calculator listed it with a $7.50 shipping cost. I was unable to change it and my phone call resulted in a comment that was not acceptable to me or the potential buyers. The actual USPS Priority Mail shipping cost for these items was about $54+insurance. They would not let me change it as they "didn't think it was a fair price". I've found USPS PM efficient and fairly cheap.
If you see an item listed you are interested in bidding on contact the seller and ask about working out something better as far as shipping. Most sellers will work with you as they really want to sell their stuff.
Happy hunting!
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Lion ! "Get over it. !" ? That is a very unusual comment from you. Gotta a thotnj stuck in the ole paw ?
richhotrainMIke, it's not a volume thing. From my own experience, I can tell you that it applies to single auctions by low volume sellers as well. In this link, eBay mentions discounts up to 37 percent, but I have experienced discounts up to 54 percent. If you spend some time Googling, you will find commentaries about this. http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/ship-smart/advanced-shipping/shipping-best-practices.html Rich
I start most of my auctions at 99 cents, so the "free shipping" thing is just too risky with my low volume. I'd never be able to cover the losses on auctions that don't go much of anywhere with profits that might be gained from "free shipping" -- which I'd have to pay for regardless.
I should take advantage of Regional Rates for Priority Mail when I can, as that looks easy enough.
This is a good page for buyers to note also, as it lets you know what options are available -- potentially.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
We sell hand made soap on line from our own web site. I use PayPal as the credit card/shipping source. We charge shipping based on exactly the quoted price by USPS on the PayPal site. We get our boxes for free from the post office, and we make daily trips to the bank and post office anyway, so there is no trouble to drop something off.
Still shipping is high. Most online purchases that I make (computer, medical, and hobby) tend to run in the 7 - 15 dollar range, and bigger shipment would of course cost more.
LION has hundreds of back issues of MR in boxes, but shipping of these would cost about $35.00 each.
Monks ship wine to churches. Cannot go by USPS or UPS nor by FedEx et al. Must go by freight. Freight is billed on "Hundred weight" ergo 1# or 100# is same price. 200# or 300# is just a fraction more. Average shipping costs for wine might be $70.00 for 100 - 200# of wine.
It costs us $4000.00 to ship 20 pallets of wine (Legal Load Limit) from California to North Dakota.
Shipping is expensive. Get over it.!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Larry:
I'm in the same boat. There is a really good model railway shop about 45 minutes from my home. However, by the time I pay for the gas and the toll road I may as well pay the eBay shipping fees, assuming that they are reasonable. I can avoid the toll road if I want to spend another hour or more in traffic, but I prefer to avoid the stop and go. I would order from them but their shipping fees are out to lunch! They are higher than USPS First Class from the US. On the other hand, I order regularly from Hobby Wholesale in Edmonton, Alberta 2/3rds of the way across the country. They ship most small packages for $6.00.
As a couple of fellow Canadians have already pointed out, shipping to Canada from the US can be very pricey. If I see something that interests me where the quoted shipping is too high I send a message to the seller and in most cases they are willing to ship via cheaper methods. Some sellers are not. They don't get my business.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
yougottawanta Believe me I would shop there if I could.
If I had a LHS I would shop there 90% of the time but,I don't like having to make a 52 mile round trip and still may not find what I need.
There's some good shops in Columbus (Oh) but,that's a 126 mile round trip and that's not much of a option..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
That is exactly what I found. There is One decent train shop and guess what he sells ? Lionel O gauge. Almost no HO. The next closest LHS the owner actually put up a sign "no more trains" and guess what he sells RC and gaming supplies. Plus the guy seems to be slimy. I dont trust him. There are no more LHS any where near me. Believe me I would shop there if I could.
mlehman richhotrain I forgot to mention another issue about shipping. If a seller uses the eBay/PayPal arrangement for payment, discounts of over 50 percent can be obtained on shipping charges due to eBay's agreement with USPS. So, a $12 shipping charge to the average USPS customer can cost the eBay seller just over $5. Often, a seller doesn't even realize this until the invoice is sent to the buyer showing the undiscounted shipping charge, and then PayPal charges the seller the lower, discounted, shipping fee. Rich Rich, I'd like to hear more about this. Must be a volume thing.
richhotrain I forgot to mention another issue about shipping. If a seller uses the eBay/PayPal arrangement for payment, discounts of over 50 percent can be obtained on shipping charges due to eBay's agreement with USPS. So, a $12 shipping charge to the average USPS customer can cost the eBay seller just over $5. Often, a seller doesn't even realize this until the invoice is sent to the buyer showing the undiscounted shipping charge, and then PayPal charges the seller the lower, discounted, shipping fee. Rich
I forgot to mention another issue about shipping. If a seller uses the eBay/PayPal arrangement for payment, discounts of over 50 percent can be obtained on shipping charges due to eBay's agreement with USPS. So, a $12 shipping charge to the average USPS customer can cost the eBay seller just over $5. Often, a seller doesn't even realize this until the invoice is sent to the buyer showing the undiscounted shipping charge, and then PayPal charges the seller the lower, discounted, shipping fee.
Rich,
I'd like to hear more about this. Must be a volume thing.
In this link, eBay mentions discounts up to 37 percent, but I have experienced discounts up to 54 percent. If you spend some time Googling, you will find commentaries about this.
http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/ship-smart/advanced-shipping/shipping-best-practices.html
I'd like to hear more about this. Must be a volume thing. I'd like to offer even cheaper shipping, as that's what most irritates buyers and discourages them -- as this thread proves.
As someone else mentioned, there is a 10% IIRC discount on USPS that is common. I use it, but the bar must be low to qualify as I'm far from a power seller. I don't recall tracking exactly how this 10% shows up, although I always use the "Print Price on Postage" option anyway, so everyone knows what it costs.
Howard Zane FIND ANOTHER LHS!!! HZ
FIND ANOTHER LHS!!!
HZ
Yeah,right even if its several miles away in another city with stock that is decades old or very limited stock at full MSRP with employees more knowledgeable in R/C then model trains?
Finding a LHS or not so local hobby shop that is worth visiting is getting harder every year.
I've already been told by one shop I visited last month..I carry a limited stock of model trains as you can see..My money maker is R/C and gaming supplies not model trains..I can order anything for you through Walthers or Horizon though..
My thoughts? So can I buddy,so can I.
Let me add my observations to this discussion.
If a seller is purposely trying to make extra money on a transaction, he will state an inflated fixed shipping cost. For example, the seller may know that he can ship an item for no more than $12, yet he states the shipping charge as $20.
However, most sellers are not interested in ripping off their buyers, and this is particularly true with used items from private sellers. Not knowing any better, a seller will use eBay's default shipping charge which will vary by the size and weight of the package and the buyer's zip code. Here is the where the problem occurs. eBay recently changed its default shipping method to Expedited Shipping which often results in a whopping shipping charge.
I am a frequent seller/buyer on eBay and I found out the hard way when I set up some auctions on collectible ceramic houses. I wasn't getting many Views, and I wasn't getting any bids. So, I took a closer look at how a bidder was viewing my auction. I was shocked. Using my kids zip codes as examples, I was finding that a "normal" shipping charge of, say, $12, was showing up as $36, for example. I wound up re-listing, using USPS Parcel Post rates and sold everything - - - with reasonable shipping charges.
My advice? If the shipping charge seems excessive, contact the seller before bidding and ask what it would cost to ship to your zip code.
Longtime buyer and seller on ebay. Things are always changing, but several things mentioned already should be brought together to help clarify things some.
Yes, ebay now gets a cut of shipping. The default is up to the seller to a certain degree. USPS Priority Mail is typical. Probably for the same reason I use it: easy to buy postage and track things, as well as convenient for drop-off. Priority Mail gives you tracking and $50 of insurance and that covers things for the majority of sales I make.
Tracking helps with the buyer's guarantees that ebay offers, also. I'm not sure of the fine print on that and never needed to resort to it. The couple of times I had an issue, the seller took care of me without the need to resort to it.
Priority Mail is a flat rate for anything up to a pound and less. This is good if you close to a pound, but you do feel a bit shorted on a 3 oz item. I note in my auctions that other shipping options are available, First Class being the go to cheap option (there are limits on the weight and size of 1st Class, so doesn't apply to everything) but only rarely do people ask. Mainly, I use this for international shipments, including to Canada. Never had a problem, despite the lack of tracking, and buyers overseas really appreciate the price break on shipping it allows. This is an individual decision by the seller, though, and would impact a claim made under the buyer's guranatees that ebay offers, so use it eyes wide open.
Ebay and the USPS shipping cost calculations have gotten much better over the years, although they can still be somewhat arcane. Just in case, I also note it's my policy to refund any excess shipping I receive if the difference is more than $1. You do have to be pretty good at estimating packed weight of an item, prepack it to be certain of the weight, or pad the stated weight by a pound or so -- all strategies I've seen used. I just try to be as accurate as possible in my estimates, buy there's been a couple of times I should've listed the weight somewhat higher. Oh well.
With alternative shipping options, as well as combined shipping, it's best to contact the seller before payment to confirm things. The seller can make adjustments after payment, but its more of a PITA than it used to be and easier to just be right to start with.
Ebay has also been pushing the concept of "free shipping." That can sound attractive, but it's rolled into the price somehow, because somebody has to pay. Doesn't work for me, as the PO is never free for me and no one else AFAIK.
Ultimately, the value in any deal on ebay is based on the combined cost of the item and shipping. Don't fool yourself that something is cheap by ignoring the stated shipping costs. What matters is the total. If it's too high, then maybe not such a good deal after all, but that's a decision, you, the buyer has to make. I make nothing on shipping and only avoid substantial costs for supplies like boxes and padding by my commitment to recycling. I still have to buy tape. In the end, the buyer should not blame the seller or ebay for the facts of life that shipping isn't cheap, but is almost always part of the transaction.
I simply don't bother when I see "Global shipping".They don't want to ship by mail,I pass on......
yougottawanta With the demise of the LHS I have had to resort to something I absoluetly detest. Buying on line. So I opened an EBAY account and made several purchases. I was SHOCKED at the shipping rate/robbery with out a gun !For instance one purchase for $15 the shgpping rate was $7.50 ! Half the cost of the merchandise ! Is there another way to select cheaper shipping ? I was not able to figure out any other choices other than premuim. Thanks YGW
With the demise of the LHS I have had to resort to something I absoluetly detest. Buying on line. So I opened an EBAY account and made several purchases. I was SHOCKED at the shipping rate/robbery with out a gun !For instance one purchase for $15 the shgpping rate was $7.50 ! Half the cost of the merchandise ! Is there another way to select cheaper shipping ? I was not able to figure out any other choices other than premuim.
Thanks
YGW
The shipping rate does not seem out of line. Most sellers pass along the actual cost of shipping.
Neither FedEx, USPS, or UPS will ship hardly anything of bulk for 99 cents. And the cost of shipping is not based upon the value of the item, but the weight and size of the item.
A $15 Athearn boxcar may actually cost $7.50 to ship. But a same size item, say an Athearn Genesis Locomotive with DCC & Sound that costs $220, may also cost $7.50 to ship.
Most people factor in stated shipping costs into the total price of the item, then use that total when comparing with other sellers.
And most sellers will combine shipping on multiple purchases since the cost to ship does not go up much after you've paid for the initial carriers overhead. So two $15 dollar items may only cost $9 to ship.
Yes, buying inexpensive items on ebay will cause the shipping costs to be a high percentage of your total expense, but that's neither the seller's or Ebays fault. Its just the reality that a carrier has to bear the same initial overhead costs regardless of the value of the item being shipped.
eBay is most definately not for the small seller anymore. As a frequent seller and shipper on eBay since 1998 thay have made it harder and harder for the little guy (the individual) to make a few dollars. The fees that they charge are sometimes outrageous and the fact that a seller cannot leave a negative feedback for a buyer that stiffs them on a sale that they bid on and won and never pay is just wrong. As of right now eBay charges the seller 9% of the shipping rate charged unless the seller offers free shipping. Free shipping is the way eBay seems to want every seller to go these days.
Most sellers, definately not all, only charge what the US Post Office charges them to ship an item. Postal rates are always going up and it has to be paid by someone. If you bought something from Amazon or a private vendor, the shipping would probably be about the same. One option would be to buy more than one item if you need them from the same seller, or to ask the seller if there is a different shipping option than the one posted on the sale page.
Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth. ( less the eBay fees)
Hello All,
Caveat Emptor! Or...Be an informed consumer in today's market!
I was just perusing eBay and thinking to myself, "Are you kidding...you're asking that price for that item!?!"
As an example: I purchased a MOW Track Weight car for less than $10.00. Shipping was about $3.00. Great deal for a great item through eBay!
Then I was recently searching eBay and found a listing for a similar MOW Track weight car for $90.00 (with "Free" shipping)!!! I put it in my Watch List- -to see what people would be willing to pay for this item. I received a message from eBay saying that this item had been re-listed at a "Discounted" price. I went to the new listing it was $79.00! Plus $13.00 shipping!! Some discount!!!
I also sell on eBay. When I list an item I ship via USPS at the Priority Mail shipping rate. Yes, it's expensive, but the item is guaranteed to arrive in 2-working days and is insured up to $50.00 with a tracking number. If I go through the eBay/USPS shipping service I, as a seller, get a 10% kick-back (sorry eBay for letting the proverbial "cat out of the bag").
As a buyer; knowing what I know as a seller, I will contact the seller and ask for a different shipping method. Yes, I can save a few $$ at the expense of faster shipping and no tracking number. Some sellers will work with you and some won't. But, hey it's worth a chance! Also, look for "Free Shipping" on items, this might be the tipping point between similar items listed.
There is also what's known as "Combined Shipping." If you are purchasing multiple items from the same seller some will ship all your items in the same package. This will save some money on shipping costs but beware, I have had some sellers cram all the items into too small a package and damage the items I ordered, all for the sake of saving a few bucks.
My current projets are re-motoring some inexpensive (great deal on eBay) locomotives. I looked at some parts on eBay and then went to the manufacturers website and found that the initial cost of the parts were a few pennies cheaper on eBay than the OEMs. The eBay shipping costs, versus the manufacturers, were two to three times higher- -for the exact same part! I'll be ordering through the manufacturer for these specific items.
Nothing against eBay. I sometimes feel like the popular TV shows about pawn shops..."Yeah, you want to get that much for your item but that's not it's real market value."
There are some great deals to be had on eBay. You, as the consumer need to know the difference.
By the way...I've got an MOW Track Weight car for sale for the "Discounted Price" of $49.99! (Shipping is negotiable.)
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
If you think $7.50 is expensive then be glad as the same item to post to the UK might cost you $40-50. which makes no sense to buy the item. I sold an item to a customer in USA and the shipping cost $2 for packaging and $7 for postage so unfortunately for me I cannot purchase anything from US.
yougottawanta Greg Thanks for that. I will look. To the others I dont mind paying shipping and some handling. What I do object to is the shipping costing 50% of the cost of the product. I have mailed stuff before and it doesn't cost 50% of the price of the product. I did not know EBAY was taking a slice also. Thanks all YGW
Greg
Thanks for that. I will look.
To the others
I dont mind paying shipping and some handling. What I do object to is the shipping costing 50% of the cost of the product. I have mailed stuff before and it doesn't cost 50% of the price of the product. I did not know EBAY was taking a slice also.
Thanks all
As a option you might wish to consider.
There are several great e-Bay stores that offer combined shipping.I usually use BIN-if the price is within reason-and buy several items and usually the shipping is about the same as it was for one item.
USPS has flat rate shipping and that's how that works.
BTW..Shop around I've gotten better BIN prices with free shipping by looking through 3 or 4 pages of the same item.
As a example I bought a LL P2K SCL GP9 for $55.00 with free shipping..The going prices on the previous pages varied from $79.00-99.00 plus shipping.
I think many of the sellers offer items at reasonable shipping costs, but some I believe, maybe if starting price is low or buy-it-now priced, add hefty shipping compared to others to make the item appear relatively cheap, so put some of their hoped for profit in the shipping. As others have noted, it's critical to take note of the shipping before deciding.
One mistake I've made is to look for a type item (e.g., HO vehicle) and then order & pay for one I like. But then continue and find another I want from the same vendor. If I had put them both in my cart, then ordered both, then paid I'd get the combined shipping savings if offerred. I believe if I order the first immediately, then find and order the second, it's hard if not impossible to obtain the combined shipping savings.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Hello YGW,
Not trying to be presumptuous, but I understand your sentiments. But once you get used to it and learn the routines, it becomes a breeze (imho), and you'll become a smart ebayer.
When shopping on ebay, take your time and read EVERY detail of the listing you're targeting, including the shipping options. A lot of us select USPS, which is often the cheapest in most cases for shipping within the US mainland.
If you're not certain about shipping or the item itself, go to the right side of the screen where you'll see the words: Seller information. Just below it, click on the seller's highlighted name. You will be redirected to another page where on the right side you'll see the icon for "Contact" highlighted in blue. Send him/her your question. Good sellers usually respond within the same day.
Don't ever hesitate to contact sellers if you have questions. I've done this many times and sellers have been good about answering.
Side note: Something that happens often that can catch beginners off guard is that you may bid on an item that may be a sweet deal, but then the shipping cost is a shocker.
I've actually seen identical "Buy it Now", New-In-The-Box model railroad items where, for example, one seller has a unit going for $70, and another seller has an identical unit for $78. An excited modeler clicks on the $70 item while a seasoned one snags the $78 model. The rookie discovers that shipping for his $70 unit is $25 while the veteran buyer's shipping cost is $12.
Again, the importance of reading all details and asking questions if you're uncertain.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"