mlehmanEven 50% more than what is expected would have me asking questions. Gotta be careful on Buy It Now to check the shipping first, pull trigger second.
Mike,With most BIN shipping is already shown or in some cases free.
Some use the shipping calculator to get shipping before you buy.
One would foolish to buy without seeing the shipping costs and I'm yet to see a auction without posted shipping or the shipping calculator.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
DSchmittI know that I may not be getting the lowest price by not bidding on Auctions, but in most cases (I do check) my total cost has only been a little higher than the for cost that an Auction item from another seller sold for, and in a few cases my costs have actually been lower. And it's a lot less hastle.
Yeah, if done close to halfway right, even if shipping is not the absolute rock bottom price, then you're only talking a dollar or two.
But when shipping is twice as much as would be typical, that's when you definitely walk away. Even 50% more than what is expected would have me asking questions. Gotta be careful on Buy It Now to check the shipping first, pull trigger second.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
In recent years, all my purchases on Ebay have been "Buy It Now" when I think the price is fair. I use the "Price + Shipping: lowest first" sort option.
I know that I may not be getting the lowest price by not bidding on Auctions, but in most cases (I do check) my total cost has only been a little higher than the for cost that an Auction item from another seller sold for, and in a few cases my costs have actually been lower. And it's a lot less hastle.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Mike,Now we come to "free" shipping that some of the sellers I buy from uses..Of course we know there is no such animal and its figured into the price but,still some prices is less then some prices and shipping combined.
A example I found while searching for a LL P2K SCL GP9 #1025-mate to my 1027.Both was listed as used.
e-Bay store A: LL P2K SCL GP9 1025 for BIN $69.95 plus $8.55 shipping.
e-Bay store B: LL P2K SCL GP9 1025 for BIN $55.00 with free shipping.
Store B listing was a "new" listing according to the store's auction information and I grab it without blinking a eye.
I've seen the opposite of my example many times too.
Again buyers need to go beyond the first few pages for the better prices and shipping..Using B&M hobby shops with e-bay stores helps finding missed models at reasonable prices and shipping cost..
==========================================
Frank,The current shipping prices I use can be varified with a simple check on e-Bay and is in line with what I been paying for years..
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richhotrain I just sold a used set of golf clubs on eBay, so I decided to add an update to this thread regarding shipping charge discounts. The calculated USPS charge was $26.90, but when I ordered up the eBay shipping label, the actual USPS shipping charge was $15.93, a 40.8% discount. Rich
I just sold a used set of golf clubs on eBay, so I decided to add an update to this thread regarding shipping charge discounts.
The calculated USPS charge was $26.90, but when I ordered up the eBay shipping label, the actual USPS shipping charge was $15.93, a 40.8% discount.
Rich
Until the seller creates an eBay shipping label, via USPS, the final discounted shipping charge is not known with certainty. This is not necessarily true for UPS or FedEx shipping in which the actual shipping charge can be determined once the buyer's zip code is known. However, because of the arrangement between eBay and USPS, discounts of up to 50% or more are available for shipping charges, but these discounts are not initially taken into account in the eBay auction setup process.
This situation is not the seller's fault because the seller cannot control the amount of the shipping charge shown by eBay for USPS shipping when a potential buyer clicks on the item for sale or auction. The first time that the seller sees the actual discounted USPS shipping charge is when the seller prepares the eBay-provided shipping label. If the seller unwittingly prepares a shipping label through the USPS web site, the shipping charge will be the higher, undiscounted amount.
Alton Junction
I believe a lot of people are quoting prices in amounts that were in force months ago....what I tried to say in My post, is that all USPS shipping costs have gone up considerably, especially International shipping, which can only be shipped now Priority Mail, no first class, only letter's. Take a look at the cost to ship a small Priority Flat rate box to the UK.....Months ago it was 12.65, for the same size box.
Take Care!
Frank
Larry,
I haven't been on the buyer end of the calculator lately, but it has gotten noticeably more accurate lately based on my input. So part of it is the algorithmn and part of it may just be me doing better estimating of shipped weight. Since I ship random stuff that varies widely, I have to be good at that.
Someone shipping pretty much all the same size stuff, for example locos and cars, can probably tell pretty closely without sizing each item up like I do how much something will weigh.
And if they're using Flat Rate Boxes, of course they know the cost -- but that may not be absolute lowest cost, which in a case like that may actually be produced by the calculator. So if a site offers both, I would definitely try both and I would not skip the calculator without checking it first if it is the only choice. You might be pleasantly surprized.
Remember when Rich and I had the discussion about discounts on shipping? The claculator is where/how they are applied. With the Flat Rate boxes, I suspect there is a discount, but the vendor may be able to capture that, I'm just not sure. If the postage value is printed, it is accurate, so that might be a way to check.
Ultimately, the shipping servuice dictates most of the cost and that choice is up to the buyer. The shipper may or may not receive a discount, and may or may not pass it along, although it's usually less than people imagine until I think it was something like 3,000 transactions a month. I'm going on 15 years on ebay and I haven't reached that many total transactions
mlehmanBut it really is poor manners to start quibbling with things when they're all clearly stated only when you're ready to pay for a closed auction.
As I mention earlier one would be wise to shop for the better prices and best posted shipping. I seldom use e-Bays shipping calculator since the sellers I normally buy from has the shipping cost posted.
A seller that goes that extra step will get me to look over his auction or BIN.
As far as BIN plus shipping there is a formula I use when using the BIN option.
Well, there's a one pound minimum for Priority Mail. It's priced differently, but essentially the first pound costs the same whether an ounce or 15.99 oz. Right now it costs about $5.35 from ebay and that's what I charge my customers, period. It's not "free shipping" but it's realistic. I pay for everything except the magic ride and do it in a timely manner.
So whatever the seller can squeeze in and sell you in that first pound is to his/her advantage. It doesn't pay to send packing past that, but you also don't want stuff broken. You can often get two HO car kits in that first pound, but it's close and often doesn't work. Overseas buyers will sometimes tell you to ditch the weights, as it both saves on postage and, they fear, damage, although I always pack internally unless a sealed kit to minimize internal shaking damage.
Really the smallest practical box to send locos and large cars in is the Medium Flat Rate if you're using PO boxes, thus my comment about needing a better box to suit our trade.
What it does is greatly simplify shipping. Don't forget time is money for most large shippers. It takes labor to give the best postage everytime. The Flat Rate box makes things simple. If it fits, it goes. And really for the buck or two, as a vendor I sympathize, especially if they're paying folks to do the work. Me, I just do it because it's my thing. But it does take a lot of time.
There is another thing that's coming into use that reduces costs, the Regional Priority Mail Box in several sizes, available only by mail IIRC someone already mentioned. This depends on having a lot of relaitively local customers and several people have noted it being used. I've received them several times and it is a pretty good savings.
In all cases, if someone wants to try for cheaper than stated postage, it's usually noted in the shipping policies. Mine is like most in that I ask for that to be done prior to payment in any event, but prefrably before the end of the auction itself if it will be a show stopper for someone's budget. Don't make things difficult for someone after the fact and you may find you get exactly what you want. But it really is poor manners to start quibbling with things when they're all clearly stated only when you're ready to pay for a closed auction.
mlehmanFor the most part here, Larry is right. Flat rate makes a big difference if you need to ship a lot of weight over distance. Otherwise, it's often more expensive than it needs to be. Packing typically adds between a 1/4 and a 1/2 lb to an item, depending on how big a box you need. The packing peanuts or bubble wrap are at best a couple of ounces even in large quantity, but cardboard adds up fast.
If I may and I suspect there is a reason..98% of my engines and cars come in USPS flat rate boxes for around $6.95-the lowest was a Roundhouse covered hopper kit that was shipped for $2.95 from Indiana..
If a seller thinks he will get ridiculous shipping from he's only fooling his or her self. I know it doesn't take $9-14.00 to ship a engine or a freight car.
I have shipped 2 engines for less by using USPS pirority flat rate.
ggnlarsfor HO flat prate does not make much sense.
For the most part here, Larry is right. Flat rate makes a big difference if you need to ship a lot of weight over distance. Otherwise, it's often more expensive than it needs to be. Packing typically adds between a 1/4 and a 1/2 lb to an item, depending on how big a box you need. The packing peanuts or bubble wrap are at best a couple of ounces even in large quantity, but cardboard adds up fast.
There are a few things were flat rate makes sense in the smaller scales. Ballast can be heavy if it's real rock. Tools, weights, or brass stock can also be heavy enough to rate flat weight. Plaster, too. But it needs to be dense weight. Even most brass locos wouldn't be cheaper. Then there's the problem most flat rate boxes have less than ideal proportions for model RR stuff. They REALLY need a somewhat narrower and longer medium flat rate box to deal with locos, passenger cards, and even many modern freight cars. Many people would love it if the PO had a meter long flat rate tube, since that would make track easy to ship -- but perhaps not cheaper than other solutions, as it, too, is not very dense.
In fact, sticking to flat rate boxes when selling stuff in the smaller scales is liable to discourage customers, as it will lead tohigher than necessary shipping costs in many cases. The exception, as I mentioned, are the longer distances. I do keep a few flat rate boxes around should it become obvious that's the cheapest shipping solution, but I rarely need them.
for HO flat prate does not make much sense. A 2 pound engine will ship regular priority for less than $10. You do have to be careful and think about what your shipping. This week I had a situation where 3 HO cars shipped separately for a dollar less than if they were in one box. When it goes priority weight and distance matters. If it can go first class it is only by weight. O gauge stuff would fall in a different category.
www.llxlocomotives.com
So many trains, so little time,
I am curious, for you guys who also ship a lot, and are talking about how much it costs you to ship items, is there a reason that you don't use USPS flat rate priority boxes? No weight limits, set prices, free boxes, free tracking. Unless your shipping a lot of oversized boxes, why would you ship somthing in your own box for $30 if you can pack it in a large flat rate box for $17? Or even sign up for an account on stamps.com, or equivilent discount site, and ship that same box for $12?
I ask this because I make my living selling on the internet, though only about 1% of my business is ebay, as they ban what I manufacture and sell. I use USPS for everything except for what I have to ship by UPS due to federal law, and anything that can fit in a flat rate box goes in one. If you arent utilizing all your options to lower your shipping costs, that amounts to ripping off your buyers. When I am on ebay these days, whether professionaly or personally, shipping charges are what I scrutinize the most and I simply don't buy from folks who overcharge for shipping.
BRAKIEThat happen to me twice..I sold 2 duplicate road name and number Bev-Bel/Athearn 50' boxcars and got three times the price I paid at the hobby shop several years ago. Needless to say I was to shock to laugh at the way to the bank as they say.
Yes, you get lucky like that every once in awhile. Being in narrowgauge has helped me a time or two and that stuff tends to hold its value a little better.
Most of the time, one must do one's best to not think of it as disappointing but as cash you didn't have before. There may be other segments of ebay where folks rake in the bucks,. but probably not in the model railroad dept. It costs more to shipp most thing I sell than what I get from them. But someone needs them and I don't.
What would we have done before ebay? Well, that's why so many have those giant stocks of stuff stuck under the layout when they die. There was no easy alternative before. Now the only thing holding back disposing of the stuff that you no longer need is getting over the fact that you're going to take a big hit on what you have in it. That ~13% ebay gets is the least of it.
mlehmanBut the percentages don't really mean much to me. I want to maximize what I get, but I'd just be beating my head bloody against the wall by thinking about needing to get out of it what I paid at retail years ago.
That happen to me twice..I sold 2 duplicate road name and number Bev-Bel/Athearn 50' boxcars and got three times the price I paid at the hobby shop several years ago. Needless to say I was to shock to laugh at the way to the bank as they say.
Milepost 266.2The other problem is ebay/paypal charge a total of about 13% of the grand total. If a store is getting something at 40% off and has to cut 20% off the top to be competitive, there's no incentive to sell on there at all if another 13% disappears.
Keep in mind that a lot of stuff on Ebay was not purchased at wholesale for resale there. Some is, no doubt, and much of that pricing aims to just undercut brick & mortar retailers.
On the other hand, thinking this applies to private individuals and their sales is not really a good assessemnt. Many people think of something they bought at retail long ago as an "investment." It could be, I suppose, if you happened to buy something failry cheap that turned into a high demand item now with little or no supply. Sure, I've had a handful of deals like that.
But most stuff I sell are items I no longer need. It would be silly to expect to "make money" along with all the talk of percentages, etc that Milepost 266.2 listed for me. And this is what sticks people up from selling on ebay. They want to "make money" off of that piles of stuff under the layout over and above what they paid at retail.
That is difficult or impossible to do.
If you think of your sales this way, don't even bother going through the motions, as you will just be disappointed in the "returns on investment." Fact of the matter is, if bought at retail, unless one plans to hold it for a half-century or more you'll be lucky to gte what you paid for it. very lucky. In fact, you'd have done much better putting the money in the stock market or something under the theory of lost "opporttunity cost."
How you should think of the value of all that stuff is "What happens if I die tomorrow?" Unless wife or other kin will be thrilled to inherit, it will end up in some kind of estate sale. There it will most likely attract pennies on the dollar. Sometimes a model railroader will be involved, and recognizing the value, your survivors might eke out a few pennies more. They will be very unlikely to get more than 25% of the retail value.
With ebay, you'll often but not always do better than that. It's up to you what you decided to liquidate and how. I simply decide that a kit or other item no longer fits my future plans, and often biting my tongue looking at the price I paid, I list it at 99 cents and let the market decide. Do I seel some things for 99 cents? Sure do and even more for little more than that. But it's all money that I did NOT have before, after fees, etc, of course.
And it is what the market is paying, not what I imagine it must be worth because I paid $X years ago.
If you really want to sell stuff, that's how you do it. That's what sets private individuals apart from a store, which can't afford it's current inventory to be sold like that. True, some private sellers think they can act like a store, because they're on ebay, but the starting price is a good clue to deciding between what someone intends to sell and those perpetual optimists who think they'll eventually make big bucks off an item.
For buyers, consider that starting price a clue to how the auction will go. I think we've already discussed most of the ins and outs of all that.If an item is priced at 75% of the current list, there's not much headroom for bidding before it makes more sense to visit or order from your favorite hobby shop. At 99 cents, it's painless to jump in with a bid that reflects a good deal for you, so that if stick to and you win you may get a bargain.
But the percentages don't really mean much to me. I want to maximize what I get, but I'd just be beating my head bloody against the wall by thinking about needing to get out of it what I paid at retail years ago.
DAVID FORTNEYIf you order one HO car be prepared to to pay between 30% to 50% of the cost of the car for shipping.
Or like I was charged this morning.. I bought two Atlas tank cars from the same dealer and the shipping cost was $5.95 combined for priority for the total of $39.95 including shipping.
One really needs to look at various sellers to get the best price and lowest shipping--if not well,good luck!
I have bought and sold on eBay for the past 16 years. I live on the east coast and shipping anything west of the Mississippi is getting very expensive. I usually ship priority mail on small packages but never to the west coast. The cheapest to the west coast is fedex ground.
I shipped a O scale steam locomotive to Santa Ana, California and it cost the buyer $72.00 plus insurance. I have also shipped a similar item it to Australia this past year for $82.00 plus insurance via USPS priority intl. it is faster to Australia 4 days then to the west coast which is 5 days. I have done it several times so I know it is only 4 days to Woy, woy Australia.
When shipping smaller packages the percentage of the cost versus shipping cost will be high. The further you ship the more it will be. As somebody posted if ordering smaller items order more to get the weight up and the shipping cost will be more reasonable.
If you order one HO car be prepared to to pay between 30% to 50% of the cost of the car for shipping.
yougottawanta Greg Thanks for that. I will look. To the others I dont mind paying shipping and some handling. What I do object to is the shipping costing 50% of the cost of the product. I have mailed stuff before and it doesnt cost 50% of the price of the product. I did not know EBAY was taking a slice also. Thanks all YGW
Greg
Thanks for that. I will look.
To the others
I dont mind paying shipping and some handling. What I do object to is the shipping costing 50% of the cost of the product. I have mailed stuff before and it doesnt cost 50% of the price of the product. I did not know EBAY was taking a slice also.
Thanks all
YGW
Shipping is getting more expensive all the time, and is highly dependant on the size of the box and what zone it's heading to. The difference can be surprisingly high for what seem to be very small differences, and I've been stung on the shipping end more than once.
The other problem is ebay/paypal charge a total of about 13% of the grand total. If a store is getting something at 40% off and has to cut 20% off the top to be competitive, there's no incentive to sell on there at all if another 13% disappears.
I think the trick is to make larger purchases.
NittanyLion farrellaa You can barely ship anything for less than $5 or $6 today. -Bob You can barely buy the box to put the thing in in the first place for $5!
farrellaa You can barely ship anything for less than $5 or $6 today. -Bob
You can barely ship anything for less than $5 or $6 today.
-Bob
You can barely buy the box to put the thing in in the first place for $5!
Why buy the box when USPS furnishes priority boxes free and your carrier will drop them off at your door and if you schedule a pickup your carrier will pick your shipment up?
I stop paying inflated shipping/handling prices 30-40 years ago.
the issue is shipping one item. If your going to ship a continuous number, you need to buy the supplies in bulk. If I go to the local office supply store, the want to charge me $30 for 24 shipping labels that you can print and stick on. You can get 1000 on Amazon delivered for less than that. Boxes are the same.
The real trick is to ship in the right sized box. If the item is less than 13 oz including box, it will ship anywhere in the U.S. For under $4. 8 oz is less than $3. I have yet to find the case where flat rate is cheaper. It generally adds cost and nobody wins. All you save is the time it takes to weigh the package.
In over seas shipping, customs is the issue. Depending on the threat level, the time of day and other ambiguous issues, your package can be delayed. I've seen 30 - 45 days. If they decide to return to sender, which I've also see, it goes by the slowest method. I had the same package returned twice over a period of six months. The label and customs firms were printed through eBay. The third time it arrived at the destination in less than a week.
Several months ago, I shipped a small flat rate USPS box to the UK..the cost was 12.65 usd....that same box today...is 26.50 usd.
I also checked UPS...They want 94.50 usd for the same size box. The contents was not even close to the amount they wanted to ship it.
As I said in My other post...shipping rates have gone up considerably.
Life Go's On, if You have the $$$$ I guess.
Btw: The pkg from China I am waiting for is considerably large and heavy....contents value is no way related to cost to ship. After going through different shipping methods and carriers today on-line, I believe I must have got a deal...for 43.00+, if I ever get it. LOL.
I don't think you can evaluate shipping cost based on the cost of the item you purchased. Any one single item can be small, very small, large or very large and that plus the weight (in most cases unless shipping Flat Rate) results in the shipping cost. I don't care if an item I am purchasing on Ebay or other Internet stores costs $2.00 or $50.00, the shipping cost is not tied to the item cost, unless they offer free shipping on orders over a specific dollar amount. As others have mentioned, when buying online, I try to combine items from one seller to get the best 'per item' shipping cost. Just my opinion, I have been buying/selling on Ebay for over 10 years now and it is just a form of business that has evolved. You can barely ship anything for less than $5 or $6 today.
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Well I have not said anything in this thread...but I hope everyone is aware of the fact that shipping charges have gone up considerably over the past three months. I don't sell anything on E-bay...but have bought a lot. I am still waiting on a shipment from Beijing that was inspected and shipped on 7-08-15, has a tracking number and it continues to say ''in Transit'' was to be here in 8-15 days, it was supposed to be shipped air....but I think it's on a slow boat. I paid 43.00+ for shipping on a 400.00 item, that was discounted to 150.00...still waiting.
I buy a fair amount of items from China and the USA, I have no idea what the particualrs are but many items I buy from China are shipped to me in Canada postage free. I do not know if this is something that China Post only offers to new merchants or what the criteria for who is elegible.
Sometimes the item is offered at a inflated price so the total paid is not a good deal at all.
However, many times the price is very close to what vendors are charging in the USA and with the free postage, it is indeed a great deal.
In dealing with USA vendors in many instances First Class Postage arrives within a day or two of items sent Priority Post. Also many times I have watched as parcels shipped Priority Post sit in Canada Customs for days, even weeks while most First Class is sent right through the system. Go Figure.
As to the E-Bay Global Post, this is no doubt a kickback to E-bay. It is a partnership agreement of sorts between Pitney Bowes, E-Bay and the US Postal Service. The vendor sends the item to a Pitney Bowes warehouse where it is relabeled for shipment to the purchaser. It takes more time than Priority Post and the fee is based on the sales price. There is a payment made to Canada Customs representing Federal Sales tax. At least that is supposed to happen but even though it is somewhat documented I would need to see proof it is really paid or not.
Even if new in box, etc, once an item is sold at retail, it's used as far as customs, taxes, etc is concerned. Ebay puts up a very conservative and inclusive rendering of what custom duties apply to because they don't want hassles from the gov't, but use your best judgment here. Many countries don't sweat the small stuff, so your average car or kit will likely just go on through and they won't even both to ask for any import duty. An expensive loco, maybe not. This of course varies widely, depending on where you live, the current gov't in power, had badly hard up it is for revenue, etc.
My advice is be as honest as possible with labeling, while saying as little as possible to be honest when it comes to customs forms. I was aksed once if I was willing to wildly misstate the value of a piece of brass I was selling and I indicated I would not, so that person did not bid, item sold anyway, that's cool, but not for me to do. Just remember that once it gets to where you filling out the customs form you've already sold the item. No need for verbiage that makes it sound impressive or very valuable, rare, etc, as that will only attract unneeded attention.
I will say, may have said earlier, that I use First Class International to Canada and other international destinations with 100% success as a shipping option. No tracking, but nothing I've sent was particularly valuable except one brass caboose where I made it clear they were accepting the shipping risk in exchange for the price savings if they did not want to use Int'l Priority Mail. In the other caes, I would have simply refunded as part of the cost of doing business, but a lost brass item is just not in the cards. Use your best judgment in cases like that.
bigpianoguy According to the North American Free Trade Agreement, there is no duty payable on the purchase or import of used toys, which is what model trains fall under. Yet here's the Global Program, listing an 'Import Fee' at least matching but usually exceeding the price of the item. This 'fee' does not go to the seller or eBay but it certainly goes into someone's pocket. My usual action at this point is to contact the buyer directly to see if he will use USPS First Class International Mail, many will; if not, I thank him for his time & move on.
According to the North American Free Trade Agreement, there is no duty payable on the purchase or import of used toys, which is what model trains fall under. Yet here's the Global Program, listing an 'Import Fee' at least matching but usually exceeding the price of the item. This 'fee' does not go to the seller or eBay but it certainly goes into someone's pocket.
My usual action at this point is to contact the buyer directly to see if he will use USPS First Class International Mail, many will; if not, I thank him for his time & move on.
That's a good point. But it also might be the case where New-In-Box items and New-Old- Stock items, no matter how old, might not qualify as "used", so that "import fee" may be a legit expense that someone has to pay.
It might make a difference in transportation costs between new and used items, and the buyer might be able to make that distinction. Perhaps ebay is being conservative (to their advantage) by charging it on everything when only a segment of the items sold are subject to the fee.
- Douglas