Hi everyone,
I would like to know any successes your train group has made in getting youth active in
railroading. I don't see alot of youth at train shows anymore. I believe the hobby is losing out
to RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. We need to do something about this.
Thanks,
Chris
Take some kids down to the tracks to watch a train go by up close. The ones that go "Ooooooo!" are hooked. Trains used to go down the center of every town so most every kid saw them growing up. Bet you could chart interest in the hobby just on how many kids got to see trains.
crisco1 Hi everyone, I would like to know any successes your train group has made in getting youth active in railroading. I don't see alot of youth at train shows anymore. I believe the hobby is losing out to RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. We need to do something about this. Thanks, Chris
WHY?
I think it is loosing out to video games, pop music, fast cars and the opposite sex, but that has always been the case - and then they come back when they grow up.
I worked in a hobby shop for years helping new people get started - few of them were under 25.
People like me who started young - age 10 - and stay relatively active their whole life are the exception not the rule.
The sky is not falling, the hobby is not dieing - quite the opposite - the hobby has changed, not necessarily for the better in the view of some - but it is doing just fine.
Why would we use train show attendance to judge this? I'm a very active modeler - but I seldom go to more than one train show a year? The two are not directly linked. I have been at this for over 40 years now.
I will be responsible for giving my grandson the needed exposure - then he will choose for himself - the rest of the world is on their own.
Sheldon
Pick a hobby, any hobby, and go to a message board for it. Find the thread about "the kids they don't do this!"
Well turns out young people, by and large, have different interests than people in the workforce. Not particularly surprising. For instance, Reflector, the Astronomical League's magazine, recently had a cover piece on, you guessed it, young people and not being amateur astronomers.
Really? A hobby that requires absolute control of your schedule, ability to be out really late at night, and invest a small fortune in equipment doesn't attract young people? Color me not surprised.
I see a completely different issue with the young (and I mean not teenagers but toy playing years) eschewing toys that secretly train them to be engineers and problem solvers.
And the last of these scattered, rambling thoughts...it is possible to have more than one hobby. Instead of demonizing other hobbies, try to coexist with them. Is model railroading my primary hobby? As far as lifetime expenditure probably. But I also love my xbox, am anxiously waiting for the weather to improve so I can waste so many hours at the local driving range (they have a full restaurant and full bar and they bring the food RIGHT TO YOU its amazing), slowly putting together a full set of equipment so I can play hockey, would indulge my amateur astronomy more if I didn't live in a major city, and am thinking about adding curling to the mix.
I went to a show yesterdayand there were quite a few young folks there, teenage and under. Even noticed that one dealer gave a young person a very good deal on a few items, I think, hoping to keep him hooked on the hobby. One woman asked me a question as we looked at the vegetable garden in front of us. I gave her a simple reply on how to make the kind of road that was in front of us. She thanked me and said I'd just made her 8 year old son happy. He and his slightly older sister were staring at the trains and dad seemed happy that it was a reasonably priced option. Got the idea that mom and son may be the active modelers, but the other two seemed to be enjoying too.
Overall the show was the most crowded I have seen it in over 10 years of attending. I do agree, there are a lot of distractions for young folks, there were for me, but the seeds were planted young and I made it back. Wish I had had better luck with my children and grandchildred, but there is still time.
Have fun,
Richard
Relax, Chris. There's a lot of competition out there for kids's attention, but the trains are more than holding their own. The diversity of products, quality of craftsmanship, and gallimaufry of people partaking are higher than I've seen it in 30 years. Our hobby is not going away.
For piqueing a kid's interest, consider John Allen's Timesaver:
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/sw-timesaver.html
Yes, yes, I can hear the veterans groaning already, but the Timesaver is simple, fun, and addictive. Just the thing to get the Wiibox or Ploystation shoved aside for a while.
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
nobodies missing out, I'm subbed to a pair of gentlemen younger than myself on youtube, even my coworkers (some who are in their 20's) are interested. Why not have more than one thing one likes to do, I like my xbox, Ipod, and my Playstation portable. But my trains (even though I'm still new to this) are higher on the pecking order, as long as locos, buildings, rolling stock, and other things one needs to have a model railroad are still being made we're fine.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
I just got home from a train show. We have nothing to worry about as far as I am concerned. I engaged many kids, teens and their Mom's in conversation. I sense our hobby needs to be rediscovered by some of the "parents" that had been dragged by their kids to the show rather than the kids themselves.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Hey guys,
Thank you for your replies advising that the sky will indeed remain suspended above us. I grow weary of doomsday prophets and your replies a like fresh air.
Keeps your sticks on the ice.Dwayne A
Well let's take a cue from RC cars for example. I went to a local hobby shop, which stocked general hobby items, but was mostly RC cars and kits.
There was a corner with a large wooden racetrack for RC slot cars, and on this particular Saturday, there was a crowd of kids and parents there. They had a race event. It was interactive. It was a thing.
My main complaint about model railroading is that it's very "lone wolf," as far as my experience. I know there are clubs but for me they're prohibitively expensive. I do have friends that model, and have participated in group operating sessions, but most of them are in different scales.
Model RR hobby shops have to be a little more creative, a little more adventurous. I see fewer stores, even the well-stocked ones, have complete layouts with trains running in them, sparking the imaginations of model railroaders of all levels. Shouldn't that be the best marketing ploy for the hobby, rather than a bunch of boxes on shelves?
BTW, as far as model trains, this particular shop only sold the "substandard minimum" you'll find at general hobby shops tht don't specialize in trains: A partial Woodland Scenics scenery products display, a few pieces of Atlas track (Code 100 HO and Code 80 N of course) and lots of Bachmann and Life-Like dreck. Nothing that would interest either beginners, nor more experienced model railroaders.
My grandson likes his WII, his Legos, etc. He has also enjoyed our mutual effort in trains, driven much by my enthusiasm, starting with a Thomas setup (on my much better frame), then a 4' x 6' HO layout based on a Bachmann set. We've enjoyed enhancing that together, which required me in the hobby, not just him (he's now 11). We also had a blast chasing the UP 4-8-4 #844 through Texas a couple of times. I can't worry about where things trend over time, but the hobby is a great opportunity for now and the youth will ultimately make their choices.
I can comment that my experience long ago included being the junior member of an adult RR club in HS years. But I had first gotten into the hobby on my own, probably an extension of our family Christmas Lionel setup. I do think train shows are an important contirbution to the community. I can also say I've noticed one neat bridge from the old to the new...the Lego trains that we have seen at shows are most impressive and enthrall the young kids (and me). I could get hooked on that.
Another angle, as I've gotten back to the hobby recently with my grandson's layout and my own (started last year) I might say I'm impressed with the current state of many things. MR is still a solid magazine (apparently not going the way of many, at least soon), the hobby has many of the old standby items still available (Atlas track & controllers, etc) plus many improvements...DCC, a solid Walthers catalog, good internet vendors like modeltrainstuff.com, this Forum, etc.
An interesting thread, I agree that our personal love of the hobby should cause us to ask (as the OP) what will help younger folks exposure to it...they will decide what their hobbies will be. Time will tell, but fun in the meantime.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I stongly feel that the best way to reach youth(s) is to go to them. School presentations, donations of back issues to school libraries (even if just as prizes for good behavior or those who show an interest), scouting, etc.
It's also relatively easy for hobby shops to hold or at least offer a class on how to get started. After school or early evening club running, loco testing on their test track, buying and building as a seminar/clinic, something like Woodland Scenic's layout kits (although they often have very steep grades) as part of a package price.
Taking kids to see real trains first and VERY shortly after, exposing them to the possibility that they could model something representative of that.
In the old days, when school field trips were more common and affordable, clubs who round robin, could have a tour of area layouts using school buses and see real trains in one day. It could be tied into the curriculum in many different ways (physics of motion, acoustics (doppler effect), art, music, writing skills, etc. etc.
If that can no longer occur, bringing a Time Saver Puzzle around for one "announced" day after school (with refreshments-pizza always works) can get a few kids started who will tell other kids for the next time.
I was a school teacher for many years and I have done a bit of all of the above with some success stories resulting. (Kids who came back to MRing later in life). KIds won't get interested in anything they can't see, touch or at least get exposed to.
These days, tying in Train Simulation/Driving programs/games can be the lst attraction and as long as a modeling component/make and take is included you CAN get kids interested and even have some become lifelong (or at least returning) model railroaders.
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
My youngest is 19-year-old daughter. As I was putting my first (any only) layout together, she showed a polite interest, "That's nice, Dad." Then I let her run the train, using the turnouts (all Kato remote switches) and she was genuinely interested. When she has friends over, she knows says, "Hey Dad, show them your trains!" Bottom line, I think experiencing the hobby is the first step. Just watching isn't enough, especially in today's world.
As a youth with an HO 4x8, I can assure you we're still out here. I know another youth with a Lionel 4x8 on top of an HO 4x8.
I got into this mainly because I love trains, but also because my grandpa ran N scale.
I do have a couple problems with this hobby.
1. It can get expensive, fast. I've blown about $300 dollars on that small 4x8, not including the lone engine.
2. It needs a large time commitment. I'm very productive during the summers, but during the school year the layout hardly ever is operated. I barely even have time to play with it.
The time problem won't change (at least for a while), and models won't get cheaper. As a youth, both of these impact me now, because I lack what the majority of model railroaders have - disposable time and a disposable income. Do I let that stop me from modeling as a youth? No, but it is more difficult.
As for the RC cars and planes? It really depends on interest. Car lovers might have a nice RC car. Armchair aviators fly small planes. Those who love trains run our pikes. The reason youths choose other hobbies is because they know about the real things, learn about them, and become interested in the models. The railroads have all but dropped from the public eye, and therefore fewer youths care to learn about them.
This has been a youth on youth model railroading.
As many have said above, it's all about the active participation.
M.C. Fujiwara
My YouTube Channel (How-to's, Layout progress videos)
Silicon Valley Free-moN
eagle1030 1. It can get expensive, fast. I've blown about $300 dollars on that small 4x8, not including the lone engine.
Yeah, but that's true of virtual every hobby. Your upfront costs are often enormous. I spent a good $800 just to get enough gear together for stick and puck, not even full blown hockey. Probably another $500 to get the rest of the gear, then its time to pay for ice time and all that. I'll admit that cost is why I was 30 before I made the move from street hockey in my teens to ice hockey...
Of course, that's without getting to hobbies like...being a private pilot and dropping $230,000 on a Cessna 182.
Are there cheaper hobbies too? Well yeah, obviously. But the other day I went out and got Forza Horizon for my xbox. Spent as much as one of those nice Exactrail TTX boxcars I like. So model railroading isn't REALLY that far out of the range of a lot of mainstream hobbies. And your $300 matches the original launch cost of an xbox 360.
eagle1030 . . .As a youth. . .I lack what the majority of model railroaders have - disposable time and a disposable income. . .
. . .As a youth. . .I lack what the majority of model railroaders have - disposable time and a disposable income. . .
I, too, can't wait until I am old enough to have both. (I turn 53 on Tuesday.)
Time, money, or space. Seems like we always have to pick 2.
I'm just getting back into the hobby after a long absence (but I did buy a PS3 and other toys in that time). It does help to have the extra disposable income to immediately plunk down serious change for something you really want. Still no space for a real layout yet, but currently building up the fleet.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
eagle1030 The railroads have all but dropped from the public eye, and therefore fewer youths care to learn about them.
Actually, I wouldn't say that "railroads have all but dropped from the public eye." In fact, there are more of them today that there were 25 years ago. Yes many freight railroads have merged or been absorbed over the last quarter century,but trains as a whole are running more often than they used to.
The biggest change are commuter rail operations - nearly every large metropolitan area has a commuter rail system or is planning one. Commuter rail systems are the new passenger roads. Thousands of people ride them every day to and from work. They are VERY visible in the public eye.
In many corridors, Amtrak has seen a rise in ridership, particularly in the east and west coasts.
In other corridors, high speed rail is a current topic. Also, many cities boast light rail, heavy rail and/or streetcar operations, and more are being built. Not too many of them were around 25 years ago.
And though there are only four major railroads in the US, international trade has brought on an increase of freight traffic, especially intermodal traffic.
One thing I've noticed both attending shows and being in a train club (before moving and poor health prevented me from joining another one) is how unfriendly and unapproachable many modelers seem. I can't count the number of times I've seen somebody interested at a show ask a question and get frowned out. When a kid asks a man old enough to be his grandfather something and gets a frown and the body language of "you're bothering me" that doesn't help anybody.
cmulligan01 One thing I've noticed both attending shows and being in a train club (before moving and poor health prevented me from joining another one) is how unfriendly and unapproachable many modelers seem. I can't count the number of times I've seen somebody interested at a show ask a question and get frowned out. When a kid asks a man old enough to be his grandfather something and gets a frown and the body language of "you're bothering me" that doesn't help anybody.
While I get your point, it is beyond unrealistic to expect every vender at a train show, or every random modeler at a club or open house to be the "Scout leader, grandfather, mentor" of today's youth.
Not everybody "loves" children general, or wishes to interact on that level with them.
I love my grandchildren, but to be honest, after raising three kids and three step kids, I'm pretty full up on the kid thing. I'm not the school teacher type, or the Scout leader type - like the elder Dr. Jones said in the movie - "you left just when you started to be interesting".
I'm in this hobby because I like to sit quitely and build models, not becuase I like large crouds of people - young or old. Oh, I forgot, this hobby is no longer about building models - we just buy them RTR and drop them on KATO track.
Now if a 15 year old wants to sit next to me and learn how to build a Silver Streak wood kit, I might be up for that. I was rather experianced at them by that age.
I agree with many of the other posters, many of the younger gen's have other interests concurrently. They'll get back to MR-ing eventually. I am 25 and still model off and on. I don't have a layout, but I go to a show or two every year, and still build structures and freight cars (yes I actually build them, not RTR), all while working full time, and still enjoying other things like traveling and weightlifting. MR-ing is just one piece of a larger puzzle.
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
I have bought a loop of Atlas Tru-Track from ModelTrainstuff, an Athearn Blue Box GP40-2 off Ebay and several freight cars and a Bachmann DC Power Pack at a Train Show. All told I spent about $125.00 on the above and gave this to my 9 year old Grandson who has shown some interest in Model railroading. Next time I see him, I will build an Athearn Blue Box Kit with him, hoping to inspire interest in building models in him.
Beyond doing the above, I don't know what more we as Model Railroaders can do!
I can assure you that R/C Airplanes is suffering through the same situation as Model Railroading and interest in that hobby is also dwindling.
My opinion is that Modeling in general is struggling and I think all the RTR stuff isn't helping! For me, the fact that so many of you are willing to cough-up $30.00 for a RTR Freight car, $60.00 for RTR passenger cars and hundreds on RTR locomotives is part and parcel to the current situation! By not having an interest in building these things, you have gutted the hobby of more than 50% of the enjoyment!
You can disagree with my opinion, and so, what else is new? However, I'd request that instead of your espousing your disagreement with me, over my opinions, come up with your own independent opinions on how to create renewed interest in the modeling hobbies!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
A couple of observations about this topic...
First, when the NMRA convention was in Grand Rapids last summer I went one day and was plesantly surprised to see the number of young families, grandparents with kids, youth and other 'younger people' in attendance during that day. I came away pleasantly surprised.
However, the fact remains that kids today are being pulled in so many different directions. I worked with junior/senior high youth for over 20 years and I saw for myself how this is true. It's not only the gadgets, it's the schools and parents. I personally know that in my area, if a kid is involved in a major sport, it is almost all consuming. In my area, the parents have allowed the schools to totally take over and make it almost impossilble for, what we used to call, family time. Then you have parents who insist that their kids be involved in soccer, dance lessons, music - and the kid is exhausted. I saw this so many times and, in some instances, we need to let kids be kids and not live vicariously though them. That said, it does affect people entering any hobby because there isn't time or energy.
Now a word about cost - we have talked about this many times. If anyone out there is a golfer - and I do play - have you priced the latest driver, shirt, bag, set of irons, lessons, not to mention green fees? In northern Michigan, depending on the time of year and course, these fees can be well over $125. If you want the latest and greatest, it is a very expensive sport and when you live in Michigan, the season lasts for about 7 months. So, I know we get concerned about cost, so look at some other activities and we are not alone.
Please don't think I am ranting, but we need to understand that the world has changed - it's not late father's time anymore.
The OP said - 'we need to do something about this.' My question is, what are we doing as individuals to promote interest in the hobby in younger people? I think we all have a responsibility to do just that. When is the last time anyone of us invited some 'younger people' from the neighborhood over to see and help run the trains? When was the last time one of us talked to a group including a 'show and tell?' When was the last time MR ran a feature article about a young person's layout? When was the last time a LHS hobby shop had a kids day?
I go back to my golfing example - younger people that play golf were encouraged to play - most of the time by family members or friends. They were given clubs at an early age and if they broke something, no big deal. It was fixed and everyone moved on. I think we need to take a lesson, look at what we are doing and understand that we bear part of the responsibility for promoting the hobby and developing interests in other people.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
ATLANTIC CENTRAL crisco1 I would like to know any successes your train group has made in getting youth active in railroading. I don't see alot of youth at train shows anymore. I believe the hobby is losing out to RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. We need to do something about this. WHY?
crisco1 I would like to know any successes your train group has made in getting youth active in railroading. I don't see alot of youth at train shows anymore. I believe the hobby is losing out to RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. We need to do something about this.
LOL
Doggone it, Sheldon, you took the word right out of my mouth.
As I read the initial post, I thought the same thing. Why?
What do I care?
Why should I care?
To me, it is similar to one younger person saying to another that we have to get older guys involved in RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. Why?
Rich
Alton Junction
HAROLDA, I could not agree more! Don't get me started on how stupidly this country has been pushing SPORTS to children, to the detriment of education, which should be the focus of our schools and not sports!
this is the thing I am young I am 23 the thing is i had a Model railway when i was 10 built for me by my Grandfather but we moved into a house that was to small for it now i have always been fascinated by trains both real and model but as grew up i got interested in other things like tabletop wargames it was only when my then Girlfriend now Wife to be was looking through my stack of PS2 games and found a Game Called A-train 6 by Artdink after a few hours of that the next weekend we were down at the local model shop looking at trains
Apologies in advance for any use of UK RailRoad Terms
"there is the wrong way the Right way and then there is Great western railway Way"
Chris,
We have had great luck with younger modelers. A few things:
1. Boys in particular learn by touching/moving--let them do so with models that aren't fragile.
2. Having some kids talk/demonstrate to new kids helps a lot. So, we have a core of kids that we help them reach out to other kids. Like arranging birthday parties.
3. Sound is very helpful to gain interest.
4. They will get bored with just running trains(just like us). So, have some activities for them to do, like assembling a kit or painting, etc.
5. As the kids get older they will be able to understand the concepts of operations and so this will help them maintain interest in running trains. Give them a switch list and have them work as teams--they really like it.
Not trying to offend any particular person here...
Every time someone gets a wild hare and starts talking, either directly or through innuendo, about "responsibility to the hobby," I do one of two things: Laugh at their presumptuousness or walk away without listening at all.
Model Railroad back in the 1980s or 1990s was pretty full of that crap, and I nearly dropped them for good before they dropped that mantra.
This is my hobby. I have no responsbility to it at all. I do it because I enjoy it - period. When I no longer enjoy it (if ever) I'll abandon it without looking back once. Meanwhile, go stuff your calamitous paranoia about whatever aspect of the hobby you think is in crises somewhere else, OK?
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'm in this hobby because I like to sit quitely and build models, not becuase I like large crouds of people - young or old. Oh, I forgot, this hobby is no longer about building models - we just buy them RTR and drop them on KATO track. Sheldon
If I had to build models, I wouldn't be in this hobby. A major factor that brought me back is all the cool, RTR, highly detailed, sound-equipped locos and cars that I don't have to build myself. I just don't have the time or attention span to complete what I want. And if I can have models of stuff that I handle in real life - so much the better.
Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.