that's pretty awesome lion, as for myself my first couple years in the world we didn't live by the tracks but when we moved to where we are now I remember seeing a BN diesel at night the moon was bright enough that I could see the logo(I think that's when I fell in love with the BN and trains, thomas came after the real thing weird isn't it?). As for the primary topic of the thread, there's plenty of people my age, slightly younger, and slighty older that all own model trains. Is the hobby dying, no it's just in competition with things that are entertaining at first but soon loose their appeal. before I got my model trains, I'd play video games a lot. Now, it's the other way around I mess with my trains more than I do my poor xbox.
It was probably stated before that it was often a money and space issue reasons are why many don't have model trains. to be honest every time I read a Model railroader or model railroad craftsman, I wished I had the money and space for trains. after my first year of being employed I took a chance, and bought an N scale trainset. That grew from a small oval, a steam loco, 8 or 9 cars to a full on fleet of varied rolling stock and locos.
If the worry is this great about the state of the hobby why not have manufacturers lower prices on train sets enough to were it's appealing to parents/ beginners to not feel like they just bought something they will regret. Have Model railroader and other publications like that in school librarys, open tours of club layouts let 'em run a train, tell 'em about the train they're running.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Kids react to these things in particular:
l. Hands on experiences that are designed to be fun.
2. Food. Have refreshments and a "bull session" to discuss what they liked/ were bored by.
3. Meaningful repetition so that they can correct and learn from mistakes.
4. A positive, helpful, reassuring attitude.
5. Ways to relate their MRing to peers. Either by keeping it "secret" if peer pressure/bullying is an issue or by starting a youth "club" or round robin repeat visits. One exposure, no matter how "turned on" they get will not last more than a few days with everything else going on in their lives.
6. In older grades, having a co-ed tour, club, one day thing (time savers with pizza?) will keep the kids just discovering the opposite sex coming and at the same time encourage girls to learn some skills often denied them, mechanically, scientifically or artistically.
7. ONE visit, one day will do nothing. Repeated exposure to the hobby at least for a few weeks time will ensure much greater success of kids remaining, even mildly, interested over a longer period of time.
None of this will happen magically. Hoping the kids will discover ANYTHING without bringing it to them and having adults who like and understand kids (and have infinite patience and ability to discipline) are absolutely essential. Herman, who is a MMR but can't sequence instruction or deal with wise acres who are trying to impress their buddies won't succeed.
I've done all of the above over the years, while teaching K-12 and it is definitely possible to "save" the hobby this way, but it would have to be done in a large scale, consistent way. NMRA could design a "curriculum" and materials and try harder to sell it to schools, youth groups, etc. Even the teen MR column is long gone. How can they expect to build upon or preserve a hobby if they don't pursue this necessary (in my view) avenue?
If you invite a kid over to show them your layout, make sure they get to operate something. Two kids are better than one as the need to get approval from their buddy and the competition between them (built in, usually) can spur them on to "get better or learn faster" than the other kid to impress them. Clever "manipulation" on the mentor's part can use these traits to steer them on/into the "next step" or get them back for another visit.
I fully believe that direct involvement with MOST kids will be the only way to have enough time to expose them to several facets of the hobby and be a place/thing that's "cool" to come back to long enough to get them hooked.
Some kids, like myself got turned on by going to one train show (even though I had the Xmas set earlier) and never had exposure to any mentors to help me with my frustrating lst attempts at building but that's very rare that a kid would stick with it without the above.
Ok, 2nd post, so enough from me, but I do care whether or not the hobby survives (not that everyone has to...) and if relating some of the experiences with youth(s) that I've had professionally helps others to successfully expose kids and keep them in the hobby (and come back to it in adulthood) works, then that would be great.
That said, I've done my bit with all of that over many years and now enjoy the solitude and peace and quiet without kids these days. All good things come to an end, although I'll always continue to invite a kid to see and try his/her hand out running a train.
Finally, with OPs becoming more and more present in the hobby, I feel and have seen FAR more kids get turned on by the fact that they were running trains that were actually doing something (delivering goods, dealing with meets, etc.) similar to the strategies they enjoy with video games.
Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
NP2626 zugmann Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares. Am I a true modeler? By my definition of what modeling means, no your not a modeler. Being a modeler, modeling and having models has to do with building models from scratch; or, a kit. Having been involved in modeling and being a modeler building models since the mid 1950s, my definition stems from that era. I know that definitions seem to be in a state of flux today and are redefined regularly. The rest of you can define what modeling is with your own definitions! For me however, I'm staying with what I believe models modeling and modelers are all about and that is "building models". Don't worry, eventually these terms WILL morph into meaning simply to buy RTR stuff and you folks who have no interest in building and only want to buy your equipment, will be given the "Highly Esteemed" monikers of "Genuine Modelers"! However, all of us old "Stick in the Mud" model railroading "Codgers" will need to be dead first!
zugmann Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.
Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares.
Am I a true modeler?
By my definition of what modeling means, no your not a modeler. Being a modeler, modeling and having models has to do with building models from scratch; or, a kit. Having been involved in modeling and being a modeler building models since the mid 1950s, my definition stems from that era.
I know that definitions seem to be in a state of flux today and are redefined regularly. The rest of you can define what modeling is with your own definitions! For me however, I'm staying with what I believe models modeling and modelers are all about and that is "building models".
Don't worry, eventually these terms WILL morph into meaning simply to buy RTR stuff and you folks who have no interest in building and only want to buy your equipment, will be given the "Highly Esteemed" monikers of "Genuine Modelers"! However, all of us old "Stick in the Mud" model railroading "Codgers" will need to be dead first!
After reading the above, I'll just agree with zugmann - "am I a true modeler? Who knows and who cares."
I really could care less if I meet somones definition of modeler or get a badge with a "highly esteemed moniker" from the codgers club, seriously. If we have to conform to someone elses definition of some label while they look down their noses at us, it takes all the fun out of the hobby and the hobby looses it's purpose.
The slogan on the front of Model Railroader magazine for many years said it all: "MODEL RAILROADING IS FUN. I'm not in this hobby to please others or get a "real" modelers approval or affirmation. I certainly hope most of the others in the forum do the same and leave the "we have to conform" and be real modelers attitude way behind. I am in this hobby because I like trains and want to play with them, and hopefully imitate reality as I remember it as best I can - if I use RTR stuff to do it, so be it. No matter how hard you try, however, you can't get away from modeling, some modeling is usually required - buildings, scenery, benchwork, wiring, and yes, trains. So whatever.
Back on topic... I think there is a point where it is good where people can, to promote the hobby so the future generations can enjoy it - this is not a new notion in many fields of interest. Certainly the youth can do with out old men telling them what they have to do to be accepted into the "club" or whatever, and be real modelers. Enjoy the hobby, run trains, sure built a kit or two, have fun. Thats what this is about!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Jim,
Very well said and completely agree. What I have found is that when I open up my house to kids and their parents, it is great fun for me to watch them run trains and just generally have a good time. Do we have derailsments? - of course. Do I get upset when something goes a little haywire? - no. I always think it would have happened anyway and I look at it as way to find and fix issues that I may have not known before. So, I look at it as being beneficial to me.
I will relate a story that happened to me just yesterday. I was the speaker for my own Rotary club and, of course, I talked about model railroading. I brought along several props including 3 engines from my layout, some unfinished structures, some scenery materials and I used a series of pictures that I had taken over several weeks of one corner of my layout as the scenery was being built. When I was done, one of our members said her husband was a collector of early Lionel trains and two other people came up and said they remember how they got started in the hobby when they were kids and the encouragement they received from their parents. One of these guys has a layout and he also opens it up to youth groups on a regular basis.
My point is this - first, I had no clue that we have a collector in my club and there are active modelers who open up their layouts to kids. This isn't an indictment os anyone who doesn't but after reading and posting to this thread earlier, I was struck by what my 30 minute presention turned up in about 28 people.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
riogrande5761 NP2626 zugmann Am I a true modeler? Who knows, and who cares. Am I a true modeler? By my definition of what modeling means, no your not a modeler. Being a modeler, modeling and having models has to do with building models from scratch; or, a kit. Having been involved in modeling and being a modeler building models since the mid 1950s, my definition stems from that era. I know that definitions seem to be in a state of flux today and are redefined regularly. The rest of you can define what modeling is with your own definitions! For me however, I'm staying with what I believe models modeling and modelers are all about and that is "building models". Don't worry, eventually these terms WILL morph into meaning simply to buy RTR stuff and you folks who have no interest in building and only want to buy your equipment, will be given the "Highly Esteemed" monikers of "Genuine Modelers"! However, all of us old "Stick in the Mud" model railroading "Codgers" will need to be dead first! After reading the above, I'll just agree with zugmann - "am I a true modeler? Who knows and who cares."
If you don't care, why even ask the question "am I a true modeler"? Also, I was only defining what I think a modeler is and not looking down my nose at anyone!
You guys who are buyers of RTR, are in the drivers seat in this hobby, right now! Kits are becoming less and less available. The writing is on the wall as to the direction the hobby is headed.
Although there is some truth in the last paragraph I wrote in that post, much of what I said is "Tongue in Cheek". At least, certainly I am not a "Highly Esteemed Genuine Modeler"!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Well, returning to the original topic of getting youth active in model railroading, you sure won't do it by holding a kid up to the standard of "true modeler".
If you tell a kid that he needs to buy kits and assemble them and scratch build structures, it ain't gonna happen.
You have a big enough challenge getting kids today to get interested in the hobby without imposing such strict standards.
Rich
Alton Junction
Back on topic, folks. One more venture into obviously contentious territory like who is a "Real Modeler" and this thread will be locked.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
One way to get kids involved in model railroading is to donate magazines to schools, doctors offices etc. My friend, the infamous ex forum member TA462 used to buy magazines and donate them just to spark an interest in the hobby. Thats how I actually got interested in the hobby, my kid brought one of Dave's magazines home from school one day.
richhotrain Well, returning to the original topic of getting youth active in model railroading, you sure won't do it by holding a kid up to the standard of "true modeler". If you tell a kid that he needs to buy kits and assemble them and scratch build structures, it ain't gonna happen. You have a big enough challenge getting kids today to get interested in the hobby without imposing such strict standards. Rich
Very good point Rich! Good enough that I'm going to change my opinion on this topic. I guess if the young folks we're trying to attract to this hobby have no interest in building models, then it doesn't matter to me if they become involved.
NP2626 richhotrain Well, returning to the original topic of getting youth active in model railroading, you sure won't do it by holding a kid up to the standard of "true modeler". If you tell a kid that he needs to buy kits and assemble them and scratch build structures, it ain't gonna happen. You have a big enough challenge getting kids today to get interested in the hobby without imposing such strict standards. Rich Very good point Rich! Good enough that I'm going to change my opinion on this topic. I guess if the young folks we're trying to attract to this hobby have no interest in building models, then it doesn't matter to me if they become involved.
Well, I think that it is a 2-step process. Get the kids interested and involved with the hobby itself, and then get them interested in building models. What is that old adage? You have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I came to the hobby, not untypical of most of us back in the 50s & 60s, from starting out with building models. My interest in trains came after I built a bunch of planes, cars and ships. At that same time I also built flying model airplane kits and got involved in R/C in 68, the year I graduated from high school and went to work and could finally afford an R/C set-up. I was heavily involved in R/C and built kits and scratch built airplanes. I'm still doing R/C; but, like Batman said, almost everyone buys almost ready to fly (ARF) airplanes and very few build them from kits anymore, similar to Model Railroading, where RTR has taken over. First and foremost I am a builder of models, operating; or, even just running my trains is secondary.
Not being a young person anymore, I can only relate to what drew me into the hobby and that is from building models, buying Model Railroader Magazine and seeing the wonderful work being done in this hobby .
unfortunately the only kit's in N are building ones, RTR is all we have. frankly some of the stuff that is being said is others opinion's but it bugs me. RTR is taking over because people don't have the time to build kits, it took me a month to build my three stall roundhouse. with work, school, and other activities taking up time. new model railroaders may not have the time many of you gentlemen have and they may never get that time either.
so much for model railroading for fun, just like so much for playing some of my video games for fun. then you guys wonder why younger people don't want to join, because of the standards of others. I'm sorry guys but I'm afraid I'm just going to have to blunt, it struck a nerve. I wonder why SUX left, the more I think about it the more I regret saying what I had said in his final thread.
Some very good points about getting young people into the hobby.
Here, a neigbour has put together a rather good operating session 'program' together for the neighbourhood adults as well as the kids...and we seen something like a 3 fold interest in the hobby as such
It is a hobby...roight?
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
crisco1 Hi everyone, I would like to know any successes your train group has made in getting youth active in railroading. I don't see alot of youth at train shows anymore. I believe the hobby is losing out to RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. We need to do something about this.
Hi everyone,
I would like to know any successes your train group has made in getting youth active in
railroading. I don't see alot of youth at train shows anymore. I believe the hobby is losing out
to RC planes, RC cars, X-Box, and WI. We need to do something about this.
This thread has grown tiresome and stale in my view.
Part of the problem is that the OP launched this thread with the cited statement and then didn't stick around to manage the thread which I always feel that an OP has the responsibiility to do. So, we don't even have any idea what the OP would do to get youth active in railroading.
The simple fact of the matter is that youth today is not interested in model railroading, certainly not to the extent that kids were interested in the 1950s or 1960s or even in the 1970s or 1980s. And why should kids today be interested in model railroading? Times change. New hobbies and new interests take over.
And, quite frankly, at least in my view, the introduction and promotion of RTR over kits and scratch building has nothing to do with the decline in interest in model railroading among the younger generation. If anything, you would think that RTR would encourage participation of youth in the hobby since it requires less time, skill and effort, making it easier to get started.
I think that it is very admirable if there are some out there who are interested in bringing kids into the hobby. I think that is wonderful if kids today were to decide to enter the hobby. But it doesn't bother me in the least whether kids join the hobby or not. I am in it to enjoy it. If kids want to be in the hobby because they enjoy it, great. If not even one kid enters the hobby going forward, I am not going to lose any sleep over it.