Things that make you go hhhmmmm.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bill mathewson

...What I hadn't realized was how much those 'blue boxes' had gone up in price in the past decade. When I started building a new freight roster I decided that the 'blue boxes' were no longer a good value, in my opinion.
<snip>
All of this ruckus over the Horizon buyout, perceived "shortages" of Athearn product, and the fear that a national institution - the 'blue box kit' - is going away, has focused a lot of attention on whether or not Athearn is still a competitive product at the prices they have soared to. . .For this modeler, I'll shop elsewhere, thank you.

Speaking of value...

The following is an exchange from another forum with my response that addresses the price difference, and MY personal perception of value:

"> ...I found I had two meat reefer kits, both
> painted for National Packing Company. So I thought it might be fun to
> build them side by side and compare. One was an up to date
> Intermountain kit, the other was early Branchline, a custom paint job on
> an Athearn kit.
>snip<
> All in all, the older and less sophisticated kit looks pretty good,
> especially on the layout and a couple of feet away from the eye.
>


```````` [my resonse-pcbq]:
I made a similar discovery. I bought a few of the Intermountain RTR
reefers in Morrell paint as they were a customer of the Q' near the
area I'm planning to model. While digging through some of my, as yet,
unbuilt kits I discovered good old Athearn makes the same in a kit (at
least it looks like the same car, which is "good enough" for me).

As you mention, the main difference between the two is in the paint,
and also the size of the herald in this case. I wish I had recalled
the Athearn model's existence before I spent $22.35 a crack on the
Intermountains. The price on the Athearn is only $5.00!

I consider myself more of a model railroader than a railroad modeler,
so the Athearn kit has much more value to my needs...it's "good
enough". But also to me the minor difference in appearance between
the two does not come close to justifying the major difference in
their respective prices. This is another reason I make no apologies
for calling myself a "good enougher" and consider the skyrocketing,
out of proportion prices in recent years of these so called "highly
detailed" models to be exhorbitant. Therefore, I tend to pass them
over when purchasing rolling stock for my layout.

Many others, obviously see it differently. I guess to each their own."

[Anonymous]

Brit,

I like that idea of the magazine article...

Guy

[Anonymous]

I agree. Model trains are an expensive hobby, however, it depends what you buy. Today, for example, I bought a side-dump car for my LGB collection. Cost me £50 which would buy a decent loco in HO or OO scale. My point here is that different scales are more or less expensive. LGB and G-scale is expensive, hence I only have an 0-4-0 loco and 4 cars, but it is worthwhile (was running on temporary track in the garden today!).

However, move to OO or HO and the same money would buy a Proto 1k HO or Bachmann OO scale diesel loco (Bachmann OO diesels are far, far better than their HO reputation!). The secret is to do as I (and I suspect almost everyone else) did when younger - be choosy about what you buy. I was amazed by the prices at the first show I attended - far lower than I was used to, and very good value. So, I suspect those of us with less money to spend are most likely buying the majority of their equipment at shows - and also on eBay. Older, second-hand models are a key part of building a collection - they can always be replaced with the latest version when funds are in a better situation.

One magazine feature I've had an idea for: Why not give several different staffers a set budget and ask them to buy the stock and equipment necessary to make a start? Set the budget deliberately low to encourage improvisation and careful spending. The results would make interesting reading and would probably be of great help to beginners. It would also show that getting started need not cost a fortune.

[Anonymous]

My dad got me started in the hobby at the tender age of 4 years old. I have been a devoted participant ever since. I remember the $3.00 40 foot Box cars and the $29.00 SD40-2s. I am now 21 years old. The 40 Foot Box Cars were $7.50 (Before Horizon), And the SD40-2s were gone, having been discontinued when Athearn retooled them a few years back. The new ones they came out with Listed for $55.00. All in all I thought those were pretty reasonable. But in my part of the country. (Wyoming)Where the local hobby store is litterally a stall out of one guys garage and the closest retail establishment is 150 Miles away, the mail order outlet and e-bay are really the only access I have to hobby resources. Now Horizon comes along, to my understanding discontinues kits all together and raises prices, which makes those $55.00 SD40-2s jump to $120.00 (and the RTR versions were only $75.00 before the Horizon take over) and makes getting my hands on the grubby little things damn near impossible because I have to travel 150 miles to the nearest retail establishment, who probably can't get them iether becasue he can't place a large eneugh minimum order. Which makes Caboose Hobbies, which is now a whopping 575 mile one way trip the closest source of Athearn for me. What really makes this a sore spot for me, is I really liked Athearn. Athearn had everything I wanted for the least expensive price and I was happy. I wanted an SD45. Athearns was $35.00 Next closest was Bachmann's for $75.00. If needed an F-Unit. $25.00 please for Athearns. Less than the price of Life-Like's piece of junk from the train set line. Not to mention a most bewildering array of freight cars that would take me years to assembe all of. That is all gone for me now. I now have to make a difficult adjustment to find a new source of kits. Locomotives I am in a bind, as I went from a $50.00 bill to at least a $100 bill going bye bye for a new locomotive, and none of them just have that rugged Athearn feal I have come to appreciate and admire. So you can see, I have been burned heavily by this Horizon fiasco and their antics have pissed me off greatly. I to am turned off by the high prices I am seeing. But like has been mentioned before. I don't have to pay them and I refuse to.

On a side note, as of late, I have done some freight car scratchbuilding as kind of a personal protest to the Horizon take over of Athearn. Just get some trucks couplers, a bottle of paint, and some decals, and you can still turn out a pretty inexpensive freight car. I priced out what I payed for what went into a 40 foot Double sheathed box car, was less than $5.00. the most expensive things being the Trucks, and the Couplers.

[Anonymous]

Guys,

I have to preface my remarks by saying that I think Model Railroading is an expensive hobby.

In spite of my previous statement, I am having a hard time seeing what the ruckus is all about. MSRP is one thing, street price is another. Athearn blue box kits can be bought for as little as $3.00 each on E-Bay and other places. I am sure that there will be 1,000s and 1,000s of these kits floating around for years to come even if no more were to be produced.. I have bought Proto 2000 and branchline super detailed kits for as little as $5.00 each on Ebay (most usually around $7-10). I have even bought fully assembled P2K stock cars for $8.00 each. Most of these kits smoke the old Athearn stuff. The branchline Yardmaster and Accurail kits fill the niche that the blue box occupied and can be had for cheap as well if you shop the deals ($4 or 5 each).

I think locomotives are still relatively cheap for what you get... I see Spectrum 2-8-0s for $50.00 each brand new and lots of other deals on E-Bay once again. Remember we are talking about a well detailed fantastic running (compare to Rivarossi and most older brass) locos here. I think BLI, Kato, Atlas, Proto 2000, Spectrum and others are in many ways better than most of the old brass (especially steam) in how they run and value for the dollar. I think the hobby is getting better and we are getting more for our hobby dollar than ever before.

I think another positive aspect of the new generation of rolling stock is that the old stuff is now around used for very reasonable prices for kids and those just starting out as those who can and are willing to pay for the better stuff turn their old stuff. I'm thinking that Athearn's biggest obstacle to selling its blue boxes for more is the vast amount of the old stuff still out there for cheap (and the higher quality stuff out there selling for not much more).

As for kids ad those starting out in the hobby, I have a little bit of difficulty with the idea that price should be the only consideration. This hobby is a lifelong endeavor. There is no big rush (with the exception of myself at the LHS). I believe that it is better to save for some gear that runs well and provides years of pleasure rather than cheap stuff that doesn't. I'm sure you have all experienced the frustration of trains not running well. It doesn't do much for the hobby when beginners and kids encounter this.

As far as comparing prices to days of old, I think you might find that when you factor in inflation (Yes I know that not all things inflate evenly, but they all do inflate over time) trains may be the same price or cheaper than they were fifty years ago and the quality is light years ahead of where it was then.

Just my 2 cents

Guy

[Anonymous]

I too have found out the hard way about the cost of modeling these days when I got back to the hobby this winter after a 15 year absence. It hurt.

IMO, the bottom line on the general price increases is due to demographics. One of the last times I went to my LHS, one thing struck me - where is the younger crowd? Fifteen years ago, when I was a kid myself, it seemed like it was kids that were pushing sales at the LHS I visited. Nowadays, after about 20 visits to various LHS in my area this winter, I can only remember one instance where there was a kid browsing the model train shelves when I was there. Meanwhile, the middle aged sucker such as myself walks in and puts a $200 dent in his wallet everytime he steps out the shop's door. Now that I can afford to run trains, if I need a certain piece of equipment badly, I will not hesitate to get it for (say) 30% more, whereas when I was a kid I used to just leave it on the shelf or walk away.

Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of the younger folks hanging around model railroading (thank goodness), but i'd be curious to know who spends the big bucks in the hobby shop these days compared to a few years ago. Perhaps the marketing people at MR could answer this one.

Kids are too busy bying video games now. And boy, is there hot competition in that market! What is the price difference between an Xbox and a Playstation 2 these days? Last time I checked, around zero. They are keeping their prices as low as they can to get the (poorer) kids from buying their product. On the other hand, more kids these days don't even know what a real train sounds like because they've never seen one in real life(thanks to railroad downsizing), let alone being inspired by them.

Regardless how much it costs to produce a particular unit, it would be "bad business" for a supplier not to take advantage of raising prices if the market is there to support it. People in the hobby are older and therefore richer than they used to be. Don't blame Athearn for this. We, "the market", are cheering them on!

Sadly, I think model railroading has become a sport for the "elite", much like golf is (relatively speaking), unless there is a John Allen-like "Tiger Woods" who can magically appear and bring the hobby back to the younger crowd, therfore bringing prices down.

My two cents,
Calaille

[Fergmiester]

High end expensive, highly detailed Loco's with bottom end couplers broken right out of the box R-T-R Ready to Ruin!!

[simon1966]

Bill, I agree that the Blue Box is an inferior product to other not much more expensive items. I happen to still buy the blue boxes because my 4 and 6 year old sons can build them with only a little help. I personally prefer to assemble cars with more of a challenge. If I were buying just for my own pleasure I probably would not get any blue boxes at all. As my sons fine motor skills and patience imporve, they will most likely move up as well. I also agree that Horizon have taken a gamble with the Athearn product line that has significant risk. It has become apparent that a lot of the ruckus has come from folks in the retail trade jumping to conclusions. This has been a PR nightmare that could have been helped by a more proactive sharing of information by Athearn/Horizon. For LHS to survive thay have to have a steady income stream. If modellers decide to bypass the Athearn line because they don't see the value and LHS's keep closing down, the volume of sales for Athearn/Horizon must go down.

Product, Price, Place.

If you don't sell a product that has value to a customer at a price they are willing to pay, in a place they can get access to make the purchase, you don't get a sale. Get any one of those 3 wrong and you are in trouble! The market place will determine the answers to these important questions and will ultimately determine the fate of individual LHS's and Athearn. I personally think that Athearn has a great opportunity to grow at the expense of competitors who import suffering the effects of weak dollar. It remains to be seen if the current strategy will work.

[jfugate]

Well, the times they are a changing. The "shake the box" kit was really more about price that construction skill (since they aren't much of a challenge). And many of the molds are from the 50s and 60s in terms of quality anyway.

Given the price increase in model RR cars in recent years, having the "blue box" price go up to be on par with the current crop of new stuff makes them even less attractive.

I get most of my rolling stock these days from eBay (the model RR section is like a constant deluxe swap meet). Many times it comes not only assembled with Kadees, but weathered too. And if you are patient, you can get some great deals, even with shipping (buy more than one car from the same seller).


Approaching south Roseburg on the HO Siskiyou Line

[Anonymous]

I understand your point of view, but a LHS would have to sell a ton of Athearn products each month to impact their bottom line. I agree that it is hard to go to a LHS with the intent of just buying a blue box or MR, etc. so it could increase their traffic, and I hope it does.

I still contend that Horizon's pricing 'strategy' and product mix as we know it today is fraught with problems -- how much are you willing to spend for Athearn models. If you model the late steam/1st gen diesel era you might, if you already haven't, start looking elsewhere.

As I've mentioned on other strings, I've just returned to the hobby after a ten year absence and have a large assortment of Athearn 'blue box' kits still unassembeled - some over 20 years old. I am commencing on the layout I've always wanted to build but had been constrained by a lack of time and esp. space, until my most recent move--got a basement ! Before even looking at prices on anything in particular, and just seeing the advancement in HO plastic freight cars and engines, both steam and diesel, I had considered the need to 'upgrade' to Proto 1000/2000 and Spectrum level products, plus some Walthers, Accurail, and Branchline and limit future purchases of 'blue boxes'. What I hadn't realized was how much those 'blue boxes' had gone up in price in the past decade. When I started building a new freight roster I decided that the 'blue boxes' were no longer a good value, in my opinion.

All of this ruckus over the Horizon buyout, perceived "shortages" of Athearn product, and the fear that a national institution - the 'blue box kit' - is going away, has focused a lot of attention on whether or not Athearn is still a competitive product at the prices they have soared to. . .For this modeler, I'll shop elsewhere, thank you.

[simon1966]

Ironically, I beleive that Horizon are trying to do something that many of us feel is important; support the LHS. Blue Box MSRP moves up to give more margin to the LHS, heavy discount competition is eliminated by limiting the distribution channels to only the LHS. End result the LHS gets a line of products that many modellers still hold in high regard. To purchase the product we have to go to the store. Or visit the on-line presence of a bricks and mortar store. Store owners should delight in this as most of us will not go into the store and only buy one blue box! I never seem to manage [:D] This change in strategy for Athearn distribution, may just be what the LHS needs to stay alive. I have heard that Horizon are trying to "Force" other products onto the LHS like radio control cars and planes. From what I have heard in discussion with my LHS, these products are very high margin and have a huge following. There is a massive after market replacement parts business to keep the things running after high impact crashes! Most radio control guys spend more on upgrades and repairs on a single model than they do on the initial purchase. Are there any shop owners that would not love this steady stream of repeat business. Again, this may be what a LHS needs to grow their business. It sure makes me go hhhmmmm. Horizon just might save the LHS!

[Anonymous]

hey 'ndbprr' --- You are absolutely right on in your analysis. Well stated.

The 'problem' I have w/ Athearn today is three fold - and it all has to do w/ $$$.

First on my list is their move to RTR-does this reflect what the hobby wants (I don't think so). I believe it's managements' efforts to maximize profits using cheap labor overseas.
Secondly, their older-prototype products are simply outclassed by other manufacturers' products. Compare Athearn's older diesels or '40s/'50s era freight cars to Proto 1000/2000 stuff , as an example, which is widely available at heavily discounted prices, especially if one is patient and doesn't rush out and pre-order the latest release The actual price differance is almost nil w/ Athearn being apparantly less available, at least for the immediate future, from discount mail order and internet suppliers.
Third, their pricing reflects an alarming trend I see in model railroading today-most manufacturers are pushing the pricing envelope with each new release. If Athearn can charge $12. for a RTR version of a marginal kit originally tooled almost fifty years ago, why shouldn't the guy offering a far better thought out model ask 2 or 3 times that for his freight car? Or so goes the apparent thinking. . .

Athearn's management is going to do what every management team in any business- for-profit in a capatilist society and free economy is chartered to do - make as much $$ as possible in sales and reduce their costs as far as possible at the same time -- (escalating retail prices, harsher distribution policies, reduced margins for the LHS, and lower manufacturing costs, both materials-if possible-and certainly much lower labor costs in China)

Just taking inflation alone into consideration, Athearn blue box freight car kits sold for less than $1.50 when I switched to HO in the mid fifties. They may have even sold for less than that. Discount hobby sources were non-existent to the best of my knowledge back then. My recollection was that fifty years ago the LHSs had far less variety and inventory than we enjoy today. Mail ordering was in its infancy and MSRP was the norm.

A new Chevy Bel Air could be had for less than $2500. Everything changes-the equivalent Chevy today sells for about tenfold the 1958 price, but is a far superior product-safer, longer-lasting, more fuel efficient and packed with features that didn't even exist in the minds of Detroit's finest. There are thousands of similar examples-some of them far more extreme such as personal computers-a Commodore 64 was the latest thing to have 25 or so years ago and it cost as much, if not more than the computer you are using right now. And it was a boat anchor at best even when new!

That's my issue w/ Athearn - their stuff isn't worth what they are asking for it, and yet they are obviously still getting it. . . What is so dire about what is happening w/ Athearn? We, the hobbyist do this to ourselves. If you believe (some of) their products are being offered at an overly -inflated and unrealistic price, and no longer competitive, just don't buy it! If you still want it for nostalgia or for some other reason, then buy it. Someone posted that "no one is forcing us to buy any hobby product", but some are practically sounding as if we are.

Model railroading has never been inexpensive, although, as it was also pointed out, there are many ways to reduce modeling costs, the most obvious one is to stop buying RTR stuff. In my opinion,no one really needs a $300 or $400 BLI plastic steam engine or, and I simply don't understand, a $200 plastic diesel. There has to be some sense of rationality in our purchases. If the budget permits such expenditures, then you should buy what you want---that's no different than any other product purchasing decision.

I have seen many hobbies killed over time by the same pattern- a never ending quest for excellance, relegating last year's perfectly okay 'whatchamacllit' to the scrap heap. And
next year's newer than new, better than ever, usually costs a bunch more, too. This has been the norm in recent years in all facets of model building, no matter what the subject matter. The unfortunate result may be to further reduce the number of model railroaders both joining the hobby and those that drop out due to increased pressure to 'keep up w/ the Jones'. Try fleshing out a freight roster w/ $35. Kadee freight cars, and I don't care how beautiful they are-it's outside my realm of reality. I couldn't afford the divorce I'd surely get thrust on me for trying to pull that off !

Again, Athearn has been resting on their butts far too long and the hobby needs to send Horizon a message. Refuse to buy their over-priced, long-in-the-tooth, products, because if you still patronize them in spite of their pricing and marketing policies, it will, as it was pointed out, only get worse. Irv Athearn is gone and resting in peace. He wouldn't approve of what's happening to Athearn, anymore than Walt Disney would condone what has happened to his namesake company.

I'm going to step on some toes with my next couple of comments, I'm sure--One of the key elements of this scenario are the hobby publications themselves. When have any of the magazines we eagerly anticipate each month, express an opinion of a 'value-rating' on a product being reviewed, as is the norm in automotive, woodworking and countless other publications? It's one thing to say that such and such "scales out to within 3'" of the prototype, or it creeps along at 1.7mph, or can pull 12 cars up a 2% grade. That's all fine. But there is never any mention of whether a $350. price is absurd or fair, or compared to. . .Product reviews are often as hyped-up as a manufacturer's press release. Is the relationship that fragile between the publishers and their advertisers? Or is it perhaps too cozy?

[DSchmitt]

Maybe they should sell model locos for $5.00 each and make up te difference on volumn[:o)]

In recent issues of "O Scale Trains" magazine John C. Smith (Pecos River Brass) discuses his experiences developing, manufacturing, and marketing model RR locos and cars. His products are "limited run" but the principles apply to "mass market " items too.

[Anonymous]

Now to turn the tables and play devil's advocate. How many $10 list price box cars must a hobby shop sell a day to be profitable? 10, 50, 100 a day? Let's say at 40% profit . Then figure what the manufacture makes off their wholesale to the middlemen and hobby shops. Makes the $410 BLI F unit seem ok..... But then wait I still can't afford 1 little lone the 4 I really want to buy. Add to this a shrinking customer base , the I model this or that road and boom compound the problem. I bet the hobby shop I frequent doesn't sell 100 Athearn anythings a month. They have had the same inventory since the middle ages. So here is the fine line of how to keep happy customers with out killing their pocket book and still putting food on the table.

RMax

[simon1966]

Have you looked at the $ lately. The dollar has weakened by between 15 and 25% against most major currencies in since Sept 2003. Any imported product particularly from Europe will go up in cost in the USA without the importer making a dime extra. This does not bode well for list pricing in any hobby with a lot of imported products. I know Athearn are "made in the USA", but are the components that they are assembled from made in the USA? Any US based manufacturer has an enormous advantage over importers right now. Importers are having to raise prices, so domestic makers should really be able to grow at the expense of foreign manufacturers. On the other hand, they may decide to put prices up in line with the importers and make more profit. We shall see. The 2004 Walthers calalog prices wer more than likely printed before the Dollar drop, so we may be in for a tough ride.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure some bolt counting person with way too much money is out there and will be quite happy with his $420 F unit. He'll sit there in his easy chair with Nike $250 tennis shoes on . I think there are a bunch of people out there that will say ok you want to much for your products. $150+ locos and $40 box cars will have even a smaller market than they have now to the point that more people will leave the hobby. From what I see the attitude is so what.

RMax

[ndbprr]

Equating VCR sales to HO train sales isn't going to work because of the demographics. 100,000,000 homes in the US alone have VCRS and they all do the same thing. I'll gauruntee 100,000,000 home don't have trains. Nor do the homes that have VCRs have different versions, brand names and functions. So after the first big push when they were $500.00 and up and videotapes were $25.00 each the market finds cheaper ways to produce them to reach the next tier that in essence say's. "I'd pay $400 for that but not $500. Eventually it reaches the point that the only market left is the low end commodity market. Don't lose sight of the fact that Irv Atheran never rasied his prices when he owned the company. If he intorduced iit in 1960 for $20.00 it stayed $20.00 in spite of inflation or costs. There was a lot of catching up to do in that regard. My last point is whois holding the gun at our heads telling us we have to buy a product? Apparently there are sufficient people out there that BLI thinks a $420 F unit will sell. There is absolutely no logic being the driving force behind train purchase or comsumption that I can see.

[Anonymous]

Ok I guess to the point. Value for the Dollar. When it gets to the bottom line does a 20 or 30 percent increase make me want to go out and buy a product that has not changed in 30 years the answer is no. Do I have to have a new loco or 2. No Lets just say there are better ways to get people to buy your product. Something like MARKETING. Yes it does have everything to do with inflation. It's all about where you get the most value for your entertainment dollars and where you spend them. If Model Railroading out prices itself compared to that of VCR/DVD players which have dropped in price to $59 there lies the problem. VCR and DVD manufactures lower their prices to sell millions of them along with the extras like tape and movies. Athearn could learn from them by selling loco's cheaper or slightly raising prices and then selling cars and their scenery. The whole industry would benefit from the move. Instead they raise their prices greatly and kill the hobby from the inside creating ill feelings to their customers.

RMax

[DSchmitt]

Ther is no connection between the inflation rate and the costs of any individual item or service. The costs for some increase much faster than inflation. Others actually decrease in cost. In real costs my latest $1500 computer is a better value than my first $1000 computer bought many years ago. My $17,000 "02 Saturn has a lot more features (AC, Power stearing, power breaks, power windows, AM, FM radio/CD player etc. also more room, more powerful engine) than my $2500 '74 Toyota (AM Radio) had. Their fuel economy is the same.

The bottom line is what's important to a company. Without a profit its difficult to stay in business. They also need money to development new products and/or improved products to keep them competative in the future. Somtimes a higer price on one product will subsidize a lower price on another.

It's still a shock to see a model kit I paid $1.50 in the 1960's reissued at $15.00 or $20.00. I suspect that some of the higher pricing is because they think the can get it. They are usually right. Most buyers are comparing the price with the prices of later kits.
Others are buying because of nostalga. The want to build the model again, and an unbuilt original is a collectors item costing over $100 if you can find one.

[Anonymous]

hhhmmmm... Like a dog trying to catch his tail, each time he tries, he may get a little closer but the closer he gets the more he realizes that where it's attached stinks!

hhhmmmm... Goin' ta work day in and day out (tryin' to catch our tail). Gettin' an annual raise (gettin' closer to catchin' that tail - so we think). The economy (what our tails are attached to) stinks!!

hhhmmmm... The first house that my wife and I wanted to buy 35 years ago cost $24,000 - 2 bdrm on a half acre with a few fruit trees. Now all the homes in that area are selling for 1.5 - 2 million. Think about it... you can barely get a decent car now for $24,000.

hhhmmmm...

[ndbprr]

I think the main causes have been missed. When Irv athearn ran the compnay he kept prices artificially low and provided the most dependable and realistic engines of the time and as a result the hobby grew. I hope the man is in heaven and he is primarily responsible in my opinion for HO being what it is today. Then it was sold and the new owners rasied the prices to recoup their investment and resold recently so the same scenario occurred. Now Athearn is run with an eye on the "return on investment" instead of the "Return on the hobby". As others enter the market above Athearn pricing it only needs to stay below their pricing to remain the "cheap" alternative. Anticipate further increases in pricing.

[Fergmiester]

Back to this price thing. I remember when I trashed Dad's Rivarossi Berkshire back in the early seventies, I was about 13 or 14 at the time. Anyway feeling bad off I went to the LHS on Mount Pleasant to see what the cost would be. I left the engine with them looked around and went home. Several days later I got the call "The engine was declared dead". So off I went again remebering I had seen a Hudson for what I thought was $30. No it was $69. Put that in todays terms and I can honestly say I would not spend that kind of money on "old" Rivarossi Stuff. This brings me back to my original statement. The market will only go as far as we let it. Problem being most companies are making limited runs turning this into a collector's market. This could really damage the hobby for the majority of us.

[DSchmitt]

To some extent Model Railroading is as expensive as you make it.

Choose your era and prototype. You don't need to buy every loco and car that is made.
Also how much equipment do you need. You problably don't need as many loco's and cars as your prototype has/had. Even if you freelance you can set limits. Once you have enough, you don't need any more, unless you are just a collector.

You don't need everything right now, a better model might be available latter. Conversly, you don't have to buy the new one, if the old one is adequate for your needs.

I sometimes wish I followed my own advice. I have not inventoried my collection, so don't really know how much I have. Its somewhat over 100 locos and over 1200 cars.
I own more of some loco types than my main prototype (the Western Pacific) did. I also own many lettered for other roads.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,I know it popular to trash and bash Athearn..But lets not forget the other manufacturers that have risen their prices as well...The costs of our great hobby as shot through the roof and beyond but let's not be foolish here..Who is really to blame? We are...After all we ask for better detailed engines and cars and that my friends came at a cost as somebody has to be paid for putting those details on.Same as building those great RTR cars that many of us love so well so you see who is really to blame.
My best advice is to buy at the best price that you can find..

Now if you want a cheap hobby then buy a quality fishing pole,some hooks,sinkers and a small tackle box ,buy some bait and head out to your favorite lake or river.You see you only need to buy fishing license once a year and bait as needed.

[Anonymous]

Its hard for me to keep up with the prices going up. People don't take "skyrocketing inflation" into consideration when they pay me.

If I wasn't so stubborn and if I didn't like it so much I would get another hobby

[Anonymous]

There is a way to fight this. A lot of people just blindly pay the sticker price and complain. This is something I refuse to do. I am always looking for ways to streatch my hobby bucks and locomotives and rolling stock are no exception. I search and dig until I find what I want at the price I want to pay. Granted this generally means I have to fix this or that, or effect repairs to another thing. But I view my self as a craftsman of model railroading and thus find it no sweat to do such things becasue it is well in my abilities to fix them, most often times quite inexpensivly as well. Maybe its just due to my isolated location, but I wouild like to see more of this sort of thing happen.

James

[pmsteamman]

Athearn Genises I will buy but not regular Athearn locos. As for the cars, thats another story my layout will be filled with them. Lets hope the cars dont get to the point where we cant afford them too.

[dharmon]

I'll keep buying them.....though most of my purchases are swap meets and eBay.....the lod mechanism's don't bother me that much. And really, the complaints about Athearn running gears seem to be directed at the noise and such...but...I seem to read alot about P2Ks cracking gears and Kato's burning up circuit boards......that makes me go......hmmmmmmm

The unfortunate reality is that prices do rise and so does overhead. As Brothaslide can attest as a small business owner, CA is a tough business climate with regards to labor costs, taxes, etc....leading the nation in business costs I'm sure.

[AntonioFP45]

Agree with you!

I find it very difficult to believe that Athearn's costs have skyrocketed to the point where 15% to 35% price increases are considered justifiable. I wonder if it's a combination of rising costs plus a decline in customer purchases as Athearn now has much more competiton to contend with than it did in the 80s. As corny as this may sound, I would not mind paying these inflated costs if Athearn had improved the gears and drive trains and eliminated the "infamous growl! I'm very sure most of us would agree. Top it off, parts availablity??- well that's another thread.

I've purchased Athearn's since I was a teen in 1978. However, after two more Athearn U-33s and a Santa Fe FP-45, I will not be purchasing any more Athearn locomotives. The only reason I'm getting these units is that the roomy interiors make DCC/Sound installation a "tad" easier. The U-Boat's "extra wide" hood is not as noticeable as it is on Athearn's EMD hood models.

I'll be sticking with the "PAKS" Group
(also affectionately known as the 4 Tops! - Proto, Atlas, Kato, Stewart)

10-4!