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Reversing Loops

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, August 18, 2017 7:29 PM

starman

Rich

Where would you put the AR1?  Thanks!

Jack 

The input side of the AR1 would be connected to your track bus. The output side of the AR1 would be connected to the rails inside the reversing section. Any and all feeders inside the reversing section should be wired to the output side of the AR1.

As for the physical location of the AR1, if that is what you are asking, it can be anywhere. When I had AR1s on my layout, I placed them near the reversing sections that they controlled and concealed them inside structures.

Rich

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Posted by starman on Friday, August 18, 2017 6:14 PM

richhotrain

 

 

Rich

Where would you put the AR1?  Thanks!

Jack

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:49 PM

Good idea, Jack. Complete both loop tracks and circle the roundhouse/turntable area. You can always add the yard later.

Rich

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Posted by starman on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:22 PM

richhotrain

 

Yes, you can do that with Plan B.  The only real restriction is that only one train at a time can enter or exit the reversing section (marked in red). Set up some sort of signal or signal bridge at the entry/exit points of the reversing section as a reminder to you and any other operators on your layout. It need not even be an operating signal. That upper passing siding gives you an opportunity to bypass the reversing section and related crossovers altogether. Lots of possibilities here.

 

Rich

 

I laid Plan B today.  I think this is exactly what I want.  I will finish the loop and see how everything works.  I'm going to complete both loop tracks before tackling the yard.  I know the yard is going to be a bear to lay!

Jack

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:47 PM

starman

 

 
richhotrain

The diagram below would allow two trains to run straight through routes on parallel tracks by isolating only the lower mainline track and passing track.

Rich

 

 

 

I thought I had only one question left, but apparently I was wrong!!

I like plan B because of what it will allow me to do on track 2 (the loop track as shown on my track plan).  However, if I move a train from the upper track 2 (as shown on my track plan) across da onto track 1 (a separate loop track on my track plan) I can then operate a train in either direction on track 1. Will plan B allow me to do this?
 

Yes, you can do that with Plan B.  The only real restriction is that only one train at a time can enter or exit the reversing section (marked in red). Set up some sort of signal or signal bridge at the entry/exit points of the reversing section as a reminder to you and any other operators on your layout. It need not even be an operating signal. That upper passing siding gives you an opportunity to bypass the reversing section and related crossovers altogether. Lots of possibilities here.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by starman on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 9:49 AM

richhotrain

The diagram below would allow two trains to run straight through routes on parallel tracks by isolating only the lower mainline track and passing track.

Rich

 

I thought I had only one question left, but apparently I was wrong!!

I like plan B because of what it will allow me to do on track 2 (the loop track as shown on my track plan).  However, if I move a train from the upper track 2 (as shown on my track plan) across da onto track 1 (a separate loop track on my track plan) I can then operate a train in either direction on track 1. Will plan B allow me to do this?
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Posted by floridaflyer on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:20 PM

Here is one vote for plan B, both would work but the second plan allows more flexability as far as mulit train operation. Nice plan Rich

 

 

doug

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:16 PM

The diagram below would allow two trains to run straight through routes on parallel tracks by isolating only the lower mainline track and passing track.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:14 PM

starman
 

I now understand how the lower diagram works.  Is the other plan you described the upper of the two diagrams? 

No, I will try to post a diagram of that other plan that I described in an earlier post.

Rich

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Posted by starman on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:00 PM

richhotrain

 

 
starman

 

 
richhotrain

 

 

 

 

 

Rich

One final question before I am totally satisfied that I know what I am doing.  (Hummm, I'm not really sure that will ever be the case Big Smile ), but in your lower diagram from several post back, the reversing loops actually goes from where to where?

 

Jack

 

 

 

I colored the reversing section red.  That single reversing section will require that only one train at a time enter or exit. I did describe another plan which would only isolate the lower track so that a second train can pass on the upper track.

 

Rich

 

 

I now understand how the lower diagram works.  Is the other plan you described the upper of the two diagrams?

Jack

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:46 PM

starman

 

 
richhotrain

 

 

 

 

 

Rich

One final question before I am totally satisfied that I know what I am doing.  (Hummm, I'm not really sure that will ever be the case Big Smile ), but in your lower diagram from several post back, the reversing loops actually goes from where to where?

 

Jack

 

I colored the reversing section red.  That single reversing section will require that only one train at a time enter or exit. I did describe another plan which would only isolate the lower track so that a second train can pass on the upper track.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:34 PM

starman
 

So you are saying that I can remove all insulators except the two you mention and everything will work fine?

Also, you are saying that if I use a Walthers turntable, I would only need the two insulators on the left of my yard plan and the two insulators could be removed?

I haven't mentioned before, because I just thought of it, but I am wiring each section of track and turnouts so I don't have problems with track connectors.  I'm assuming this is not a problem with the reversing loops.

Jack 

Yes, as long as that crossover section is long enough to accommodate the locomotive(s) passing over it, the only insulators needed are the two on the divergent sides of the two turnouts that form the crossover.

If you use a Walthers turntable, those are the only two insulators needed in that entire portion of the layout. The Walthers turntable has a split ring that effectively flips the polarity of the turntable as it is rotated, so the approach track does not need to be gapped as long as you match the polarity of the approach track to the turntable bridge track.

If you plan to wire each section of track, and that is a good practice, you can do that and still add insulators where needed. But, of course, you need to plan the placement of the insulators and the feeder wires. I use plastic rail connectors as insulators and in tight spots I simply solder the feeders to the outside of the rails where needed.

Rich

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Posted by starman on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:26 PM

richhotrain

 

 

 

Rich

One final question before I am totally satisfied that I know what I am doing.  (Hummm, I'm not really sure that will ever be the case Big Smile ), but in your lower diagram from several post back, the reversing loops actually goes from where to where?

 

Jack

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Posted by starman on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:19 PM

richhotrain

Since only locomotives will likely be traversing those tracks, it would be sufficient to only have two sets of gaps, one set on the divergent track of each turnout forming the crossover.

If you install a Walthers turntable, you would not need an auto-reverser and the approach track would not have to be gapped.

Just some final thoughts.

Rich

 

So you are saying that I can remove all insulators except the two you mention and everything will work fine?

Also, you are saying that if I use a Walthers turntable, I would only need the two insulators on the left of my yard plan and the two insulators could be removed?

I haven't mentioned before, because I just thought of it, but I am wiring each section of track and turnouts so I don't have problems with track connectors.  I'm assuming this is not a problem with the reversing loops.

Jack

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Posted by starman on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:07 PM

floridaflyer

Compared to some we see, your final diagram of the yard area is fine. Agree with starman, that kink at the 9 o'clock position on the track circling the roundhouse should be straightened out 

 

I agree the kink looks bad, but I got tied trying to straighten it out on the computer and just left it.  It will be a nice smooth curve on my actually layout.

Jack

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:37 PM

Without that one crossover, there would be no reversing section in that portion of the layout.

Since only locomotives will likely be traversing those tracks, it would be sufficient to only have two sets of gaps, one set on the divergent track of each turnout forming the crossover.

If you install a Walthers turntable, you would not need an auto-reverser and the approach track would not have to be gapped.

Just some final thoughts.

Rich

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Posted by floridaflyer on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 12:35 PM

Compared to some we see, your final diagram of the yard area is fine. Agree with starman, that kink at the 9 o'clock position on the track circling the roundhouse should be straightened out 

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Posted by starman on Monday, August 14, 2017 8:01 PM

floridaflyer

Nailed it this time Gary

 

doug

 

With your help I finally won the cigar!!  Thanks again for your patients. Smile

Jack

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Posted by starman on Monday, August 14, 2017 7:54 PM

 

I would suggest on your next track plan edit that you might want to put in the actual size of the turntable you want.  The current one you have drawn (if grid is 12") is about a 90' turntable (which in HO incidentally takes up 15"-16" of layout space before you even install a stall track).  

You may find it beneficial to fix the kink in the loop near the turntable now, as waiting until later may result in the necessity to change your track plan again.

 

[/quote]

Thanks for your comment.  I'm not very good at drawing my layout on a computer.  Sad As I am actually installing this layout, I am installing smooth curves and I have a cardboard circle cut out to the size hole I need for the turntable I am planning on using.  The different yards, i.e., the maintenance, classification, gravity, and empties have tracks that are straight or curved slightly.  It looks a lot better on my actual layout than what I have drawn. Big Smile

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Posted by floridaflyer on Monday, August 14, 2017 7:50 PM

Nailed it this time Gary

 

doug

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 14, 2017 6:04 PM

starman

 

 
floridaflyer

Close but no cigar. 

 

 

doug

 

 

 

How did I do this time?  After I get this right, I will then take the time to see what is happening to try t understand what is going on.  Thanks for your patience!  Your's too, Rich.

Jack

 

 

I would suggest on your next track plan edit that you might want to put in the actual size of the turntable you want.  The current one you have drawn (if grid is 12") is about a 90' turntable (which in HO incidentally takes up 15"-16" of layout space before you even install a stall track).  

You may find it beneficial to fix the kink in the loop near the turntable now, as waiting until later may result in the necessity to change your track plan again.

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Posted by starman on Monday, August 14, 2017 10:38 AM

floridaflyer

Close but no cigar. 

 

 

doug

 

How did I do this time?  After I get this right, I will then take the time to see what is happening to try t understand what is going on.  Thanks for your patience!  Your's too, Rich.

Jack

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 3:01 PM

starman
 
richhotrain

Jack, what brand of turntable is it?

Rich 

I haven't purchased it yet, but I am planning on purchasing a Walthers that is big enough for an articulated steam engine and tender.  Do you have a suggestion?  I'm open to what will work best for me.

Jack 

If you are going to purchase the Walthers Cornerstone DCC 130' turntable, and that is an excellent choice, you will not need an auto-reverser for the turntable because it has a split ring mechanism that will maintain the proper polarity relative to the approach track.

Rich

 

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Posted by starman on Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:51 PM

richhotrain

Jack, what brand of turntable is it?

Rich

 

 

I haven't purchased it yet, but I am planning on purchasing a Walthers that is big enough for an articulated steam engine and tender.  Do you have a suggestion?  I'm open to what will work best for me.

Jack

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:42 PM

floridaflyer

Agree Rich, I added the additional trackage up to the top circle to give the reversing section added length. I gapped the lead to the TT not knowing what the final wiring would look like on that lead, and didn't want the polarity(phase) changing on the lead.  

 

ahh, I must admit, FF, I was too lazy to read your reply. So, it appears that great minds think alike.   Laugh

Rich

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Posted by floridaflyer on Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:04 PM

Agree Rich, I added the additional trackage up to the top circle to give the reversing section added length. I gapped the lead to the TT not knowing what the final wiring would look like on that lead, and didn't want the polarity(phase) changing on the lead.  

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 1:44 PM

In that latest drawing, the only reversing section is that crossover between AR1 and the M in Maintenance. Just gap the divergent side of the two turnouts forming the crossover.

Depending upon the brand of the turntable, there may be no need for an auto-reverser on the approach track to the turntable.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by floridaflyer on Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:24 PM

Close but no cigar. On the right side of the drawing, the top two circles are fine. At the turnout by "M" put the circle on the main track, not the divergent. At the AR1 turnout move the circle from the main to the divergent. You do not need the circle on the left side up by the TT. Your reversing section will be from the divergent track at AR1 to the top circle on the right of the diagram. Going this isolates the reversing  section of track from the rest of the layout. (Any power going to the re versing section has to go thru the reversing module.)

 

 

doug

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 11:38 AM

Jack, what brand of turntable is it?

Rich

Alton Junction

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