like all work environments, it's the right set of people. "it's a beautiful thing" when the band plays together.
i know it's about having fun, but i'm always disappointed when things like this become more of a social activity. keeping everyone busy helps.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
SeeYou190 ATLANTIC CENTRAL I spent years as the member of a round Robin group, no club, no club layout, just meet at a different person's house each week, work on the layout or run the layout, or just hang out and talk trains. Best "train club" I was ever in. When I started the Dream House layout, I had a round-robin group to help out. Very quickly, the guys driving up from Naples, and the one guy coming down from Port Charlotte stopped showing up. Then before long, it was just me and Randy. As it turned out, Randy and I could build faster than a 6 person group. -Kevin
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I spent years as the member of a round Robin group, no club, no club layout, just meet at a different person's house each week, work on the layout or run the layout, or just hang out and talk trains. Best "train club" I was ever in.
When I started the Dream House layout, I had a round-robin group to help out.
Very quickly, the guys driving up from Naples, and the one guy coming down from Port Charlotte stopped showing up. Then before long, it was just me and Randy.
As it turned out, Randy and I could build faster than a 6 person group.
-Kevin
The following is a rough translation of the Tao of Programming first encountered a long time ago during the Stone Age of DOS :
A Project Manager brought the requirements documents for a computer program to the Master Programmer and asked, "How long will this program take to write?"
The Master Programmer did not look up from his work and replied, "It will take one year."
The Manager asked, "How long will it take if I assign two programmers to the task?"
The Master still did not look up and replied, "Then it will take two years."
"And what if I assign ten programmers?"
The Master looked up and removed his glasses. "Then", the Master sighed, "the program will never be completed."
LINK to SNSR Blog
gregc riogrande5761 What you speak of above is "in an ideal world". common within the club here in NJ. members of the club work on one another's layouts and eventually help operate them. the club puts modelers in contact with one another.
riogrande5761 What you speak of above is "in an ideal world".
common within the club here in NJ. members of the club work on one another's layouts and eventually help operate them. the club puts modelers in contact with one another.
Lucky you. Occasionally read about a convergence of good things like that. Then there are the rest of us sods.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 gregc riogrande5761 What you speak of above is "in an ideal world". common within the club here in NJ. members of the club work on one another's layouts and eventually help operate them. the club puts modelers in contact with one another. Lucky you. Occasionally read about a convergence of good things like that. Then there are the rest of us sods.
No clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are.
Sheldon
How much time do you have on your hands?.. I mean hours per week...
First thing I would say is that an operational layout basically means benchwork, track and electricity. So to get there, I think people need to plan for a layout that is realistic in size, considering how much time they can dedicate to it. A "Plywood" layout is definitely faster to get up and running than an open grid, but the 8X4 standard is likely to get boring fairly quickly. Again, how much time do you have on your hands??
I think time is pretty elastic myself - when things are enjoyable, I can spend hours and hours without interruption. At work, I came to realize exactly which aspects of the job I did not like - that kinda helped because I would tell myself to just do it and get it over with.
MR paralysis... The number one barrier. there is only one remedy to that: just do it, do your best and fix the problems later. As long as you can reach all sections on your layout (especially the tunnels and areas further than 24''), there is not much that cannot be fixed later. Overbuilt benchwork and bullet-proof trackwork are worth spending the time though, I should say.
Simon
Simon and others, Greg has not confirmed this, but I'm pretty sure he is referring to a large club layout, not a small home layout.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are. Sheldon
I'm not really interested in getting involved with a club at present. My focus presently is on a layout I am building at my home. But it sounds like gregc is with a well oiled machine - not an everyday occurance from what I've read over the years about clubs - why I said he was lucky.
As for getting help with home layouts, it probably helps a lot for the layout builder to be a social butterfly and a good judge of character. As I noted my next door neighbor. My wife and I gave up trying to get along with him after all the lies and balony.
ROBERT PETRICKThe following is a rough translation of the Tao of Programming first encountered a long time ago during the Stone Age of DOS :
Fred Brooks in the Mythical Man Month describes his experience with adding a 3rd programmer to a team of two who said it would take 3 months to complete their assignment -- thinking it's a 6 man month job and 3 men will reduce it to 2 months. he found it took longer with 3 men because now the 2 men were also training the new man.
if you don't know, Fred Brooks manages development of the 1st IBM operating system in the early 60s. RCA nearly went backrupt trying to do the same.
my comments are based on a recent experience during a work session where i teamed with a less expert person
in the one case, just having him strip the insulation off the ends of wires and clipping a resistor lead saved me the trouble of swapping tools, allowing us to get the job done quickly.
in the 2nd case, i was extending some block detector wires while he was mounting LEDs in the proper holes in the panels. it was more convenient for me to quickly move the engine between tracks and blocks to keep him working on the panel while i worked on an underbench panel.
in both cases, the timing worked out. yes, i was surprised.
so now i'm eager to make it happen more often and looking for ways to do that.
ATLANTIC CENTRALNo clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are.
i feel fortunate. i see some of the club members and many many others are local NMRA meets. i think an NMRA meeting would be a good place to find other modelers in the area, some willing to accept some help (thanks to sheldon's prodding, i joined the NMRA)
i'm planning on moving near harpers ferry, WV. i got a lengthy email response from the hagerstown model railroad museum about the museum and area activity. I am optimistic that i can find some modelers looking for some help. i assume there must also be some NMRA activity in the area
i'm optimistic that at least a few modelers wouldn't turn down an offer to help with their layout.
helping others has dramatically changed my perspective of the hobby, how to build layouts and different types of operation
riogrande5761 ATLANTIC CENTRAL No clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are. Sheldon I'm not really interested in getting involved with a club at present. My focus presently is on a layout I am building at my home. But it sounds like gregc is with a well oiled machine - not an everyday occurance from what I've read over the years about clubs - why I said he was lucky. As for getting help with home layouts, it probably helps a lot for the layout builder to be a social butterfly and a good judge of character. As I noted my next door neighbor. My wife and I gave up trying to get along with him after all the lies and balony.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are. Sheldon
I get it, my interest in the social side of the hobby comes and goes. But, having lived in the same place, meaning same region of the same state, my whole life, and having grown up in the hobby, you get to know a lot of people with similar interests, even if they are just aquanintances.
And I find most modelers to be affable at least as it relates to others in the hobby.
So if I decide I need a hand with the layout, or when I'm ready for that first group operating session, I will have no trouble finding a few interested parties.
gregc helping others has dramatically changed my perspective of the hobby, how to build layouts and different types of operation
Funny how that works......
I had lots of help with the benchwork and early stages of my layout. I always had a plan when work parties showed up and the guys were all expert builders with more experience than I, so lots of stuff got done very quickly.
I was done with the mainline and had most of the infrastructure on a very complex design completed in three years.
Even with all the help, I ended up doing most of the work on the layout myself. As the layout has progressed, the time it has taken has expanded. This is mainly due to the amount of scratch building and scenery work that was undertaken - after 15+ years the layout is roughly 75% complete...
With help things can move very quickly. I think that most of us get to the point where after the basic stuff is complete, we would rather do it ourselves - for example I laid all the track and did nearly all of the wiring on the layout myself - I am very picky about this stuff and I wanted to make sure it was done to my standards...of course others may feel differently
my two cents,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I hope to be able to answer this question in the near future. How near depends upon how quickly the renovation of our home goes. But I expect to be building a fairly simple 15 x 34 layout in an already finished basement room. There will be a mainline built mainly for continuous running, with local freights picking and setting out cars from the branchline that will be the focus of the layout. I will have one double-ended large staging yard that also serves as the division terminals on the mainline route.
I am not a proponent of gluing track and roadbed to foam; I understand that I am in the minority, but that is ok. I have always wanted to utilize some sort of spline roadbed, and I have the power tools and the proficiencies with them to make that happen. I intend to start the branchline at its terminus and handlay track on homasote roadbed towards the junction. Initially, I will utilize flex track on the mainline. I want to be able to run trains asap. I will have to scratchbuild at least two structures and one 900 foot trestle/bridge combo on the branchline.
Tin Can II I hope to be able to answer this question in the near future. How near depends upon how quickly the renovation of our home goes. But I expect to be building a fairly simple 15 x 34 layout in an already finished basement room. There will be a mainline built mainly for continuous running, with local freights picking and setting out cars from the branchline that will be the focus of the layout. I will have one double-ended large staging yard that also serves as the division terminals on the mainline route. I am not a proponent of gluing track and roadbed to foam; I understand that I am in the minority, but that is ok. I have always wanted to utilize some sort of spline roadbed, and I have the power tools and the proficiencies with them to make that happen. I intend to start the branchline at its terminus and handlay track on homasote roadbed towards the junction. Initially, I will utilize flex track on the mainline. I want to be able to run trains asap. I will have to scratchbuild at least two structures and one 900 foot trestle/bridge combo on the branchline.
Rich
Alton Junction
Tin Can II How near depends upon how quickly the renovation of our home goes. But I expect to be building a fairly simple 15 x 34 layout in an already finished basement room.
Would younlike me to give you a list of everything that can cause a delay during a home renovation?
Living the dream.
richhotrain Have you set a timeline to complete this layout? Rich
Have you set a timeline to complete this layout?
An interesting question. Like most things we do on our railroads, learning to estimate project times is something we have to figure out. Until you've built a few layouts, and various parts of layouts, you really don't know.
I started my layout back in 2005. I started with a 5x12 foot table, box frame construction with a pink foam subroadbed. I started in early spring, and estimated I should have a presentable operating layout by Christmas. Well, I was wrong. That sixty square feet took five years. I have added several more distinct sections, and I found that it took me about a month, on average, to do a square foot of layout. Now, that included everything, including building rolling stock kits, painting and decaling structures and learning about DCC.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley I started in early spring, and
then they tied you up. and threw you on the railroad tracks, and there's a train coming" and then "along came Jones".....
gregc ATLANTIC CENTRAL No clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are. i feel fortunate. i see some of the club members and many many others are local NMRA meets. i think an NMRA meeting would be a good place to find other modelers in the area, some willing to accept some help (thanks to sheldon's prodding, i joined the NMRA) i'm planning on moving near harpers ferry, WV. i got a lengthy email response from the hagerstown model railroad museum about the museum and area activity. I am optimistic that i can find some modelers looking for some help. i assume there must also be some NMRA activity in the area i'm optimistic that at least a few modelers wouldn't turn down an offer to help with their layout. helping others has dramatically changed my perspective of the hobby, how to build layouts and different types of operation
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No clubs or like minded modelers in your area? I'll bet there are.
Harpers Ferry, what a cool place. I spent a good bit of my teen and young adult years visting there often.
The first hobby shop I worked for moved there in the 1970's, and built a diorama of John Brown's Raid. At only 15 years old my parents let me spend the whole summer living there, setting up the new hobby shop and building the diorama.
The business only lasted about a decade, so it is long gone now.
Took my first wife there on our Honeymoon - look up Hilltop House Hotel.....
I'm only about 1-1/2 hours from there, and still get out that way from time to time.
That is serious railroad country out there, Point of Rocks and Brunswick just down the road, the B&O crossing the Patomac, and lots more.
While I don't try to model actual places, it is part of the area my new layout will attempt to depict.
You will be reasonably close to lots of modelers.
SeeYou190 Tin Can II How near depends upon how quickly the renovation of our home goes. But I expect to be building a fairly simple 15 x 34 layout in an already finished basement room. Would younlike me to give you a list of everything that can cause a delay during a home renovation? -Kevin
rrebell SeeYou190 Tin Can II How near depends upon how quickly the renovation of our home goes. But I expect to be building a fairly simple 15 x 34 layout in an already finished basement room. Would younlike me to give you a list of everything that can cause a delay during a home renovation? -Kevin This forum is not large enough for that. This is a good example: had a guy doing a job for me of stripping paint, was soposed to use a torch at first and then use paint remover to finish up, all was going well till he desided to use both in near time.
This forum is not large enough for that. This is a good example: had a guy doing a job for me of stripping paint, was soposed to use a torch at first and then use paint remover to finish up, all was going well till he desided to use both in near time.
Sounds like a bad plan to begin with.
Torch as in open flame? Why? Suitable heat guns have been around a long time.
Chemicals, not on wood, not on any old house I am restoring.
You know that old house I once lived in and posted pictures of on here? I stripped virtually all of the interior woodwork of that house with a heat gun, no trouble at all.
Yes, there are lots of home improvement horror stories....... not everyone should be allowed to own tools.......
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, there are lots of home improvement horror stories....... not everyone should be allowed to own tools.......
Just to be clear, I do not have any "horror stories" on my home rennovation. Nothing has really gone wrong.
It is all the DELAYS that drove me crazy. Now that I am almost done, and looking back, getting as much done as I did during the pandemic was pretty amazing.
Heat guns were not arrond at that time, would have loved a cordless drill and a cell phone would have sure beat a walki talki, we are talking the mid 70's here. Would have died for a Harbor Freight store instead of 84 Lumber and Heckingers, we talk about loss of hobby stores, you should see the list of hardware stores and they have a far greater following.
Rich:
Hard to answer that question. I probably will never complete the layout in its existing form; as when I finally retire for good in 3 to 5 years, we will move back to Texas. Whether or not the layout goes with me, we'll see.
I have plans on paper, supplies, and lots of trains. The caveat is that no layout construction can be started until the upstairs renovations are complete. I think I casn fudge that a little, but there is some major work that needs to be done.
Edited to add that I have three plastic tables that I plan on setting up in a row that will let me mock up the first town in Kato unitrack. Of course, this will let me do a bit of running...
SeeYou190 Just to be clear, I do not have any "horror stories" on my home rennovation. Nothing has really gone wrong. It is all the DELAYS that drove me crazy. Now that I am almost done, and looking back, getting as much done as I did during the pandemic was pretty amazing. -Kevin
Tin Can IIThe biggest issues we are running into is that all of the local contractors are extremely busy.
Yes, I had that problem too.
I ended up hiring four different contractors for work on my house, only the painters delivered in the time frame promised.
Everything left to be done I can do myself.
It all just makes me happy that I can do my own remodeling..........
Tomorrow should be the last day of work on the rental property flip, already have several interested buyers.
Next complete the family bath renovation at my house, and start on the layout, and the detached garage.
We need our deck replaced and cannot even get contractors to return phone calls and emails.
Cape Coral is issuing around 500 new residence building permits each month.
It has been reported that there are no contractors available for home remodel or repair work. The news had stories about people waiting weeks for plumbing repairs.
Not necessary; this will be our 4th renovation; the last one my wife finished by herself as I was in Kansas. She did a really good job, as the house sold above listed price, with 10 offers...
We can compare notes....