mrrdadI'm a guy who has done a LOT of soldering in his life. I tell everyone that Weller soldering stations are garbage. I've never used a Xytronics, but they get good reviews. I swear by Hakko soldering stations.
Hi Ed,
I can't believe how easy it is to keep the Xytronic tips clean compared to the Weller's. All they require is a quick wipe in the brass sponge and they are sparkling again. I rarely have to do any additional tinning and I never have to dip it in flux to clean off a pile of stuck on junk. I could get the Weller tips to tin properly but they went black in very short order. I played with the temperature thinking that I had the tip too hot but it didn't seem to make any difference. I ended up using a fine wire brush and frequent dipping into the flux to try to keep the crud off, and on occassion I used a fine file. I know all of that is verboten but the iron was useless if I didn't. It did the job, but not without a lot of fussing and farting around. The Xytronics is bliss by comparison!
For all you guys out there who have trouble soldering, get a decent iron! No, I don't sell the things!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
railandsailWonder if there is a good way to glue wood battens to concrete,...
Hi Brian,
Certainly the ceiling could be strapped by using construction adhesive and a couple of long boards to hold the strapping up while the glue sets. The problem with that is that it would make an already lousy looking ceiling far worse, even with a coat of paint.
The tutorial you linked to using the coiled LED strip lighting looks easy enough, but the size of the power supplies rapidly mounts up once you do the math, and there is a lot of wiring involved when you are working with 12 volt strips. We would rather have finished, self contained light fixtures with diffusers, spread evenly across the room. The 4' lights that you suggested would work, but because they are single strips we would require twice as many of them to do the same job.
Putting in a drop ceiling isn't an option for a variety of reasons.
rrebellGive us a picture of the ceiling, we might have better suggestions
Hi rrebell,
I haven't taken any shots of the ceiling directly but these should give you an idea:
The surface is quite rough. The ceiling is 14" thick plus the beams, or so we are told. There are quite a few more pipes in the areas not shown. If you wish, I can get some more detailed pics.
Another LED reference that recently came to me
https://www.instructables.com/id/Inexpensive-Garage-Lights-From-LED-Strips/
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Wonder if there is a good way to glue wood battens to concrete,...
1) Polyurethane Construction Adhesive. QUIKRETE® Polyurethane Construction Adhesive (No. 9902-10) is a high performance, construction grade adhesive designed for permanently bonding concrete, brick, marble, stone, wood, glass, aluminum, steel, PVC and tile. Use For: Repairing broken concrete.
2) http://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/products/build/epoxies/loctite_epoxy_metalconcrete.html
3) https://www.fivestarproducts.com/products/concrete-repair-and-overlays/bonding-adhesive.html
4) etc
The LED tube I spoke of are extremely light weight
LED tapes are even lighter.
Give us a picture of the ceiling, we might have better suggestions
rrebell and Brian,
Thanks for the suggestions. Both are viable solutions.
One of the challenges we face with adding lighting is that the ceiling is not smooth. In addition to several large beams that run across it, there is a sprinkler system and numerous bits of plumbing and conduit. We rejected using a valance because it would have blocked off the sprinkler system in several areas. It's just not worth the effort and expense to rearrange the sprinklers.
Another challenge is that the whole structure is poured concrete. It was built as a heavy industrial manufacturing facility in the late 50s or there abouts and the concrete is as hard as rock!! Maybe harder!! Drilling a single hole into it requires that we take turns on the heavy duty hammer drill, and that is just into a wall. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to drill into the ceiling. There is a distinct advantage in having someone else cope with the concrete.
By the way, Ramset is out. Not going to go there!
Thanks again for your suggestions.
Hi Dave,
Some photos of those LED tubes on my layout on this page,... sorry there is no way to link to a specfic posting on this forum.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/265819.aspx?page=8
These LED tubes were cheap, linkable from a tradition wall plug (no fancy electrician required), very light weight, and very tolerate of rough handling.
hon30critter Bigjim7 Thanks for the pics. Looks really nice. Must be a great time working on it. Hi Jim, I wish I could work on the layout more, but my back problems really throw a wrench in that. I can only stand for relatively short periods. However, now that we are about to start doing scenery in earnest, and since much of the scenery will be built on removable modules, I'm looking forward to being able to sit on a chair to do some work. One change that will happen soon is that we are going to improve the lighting in the room. Currently there are several areas where the layout is not well lit, and the lighting over our work table is so poor that doing any detailed work like installing a coupler is a royal PITA. The landlord has agreed to chip in which is great. Unfortunately the electrician he recommended is extremely poor at providing detailed quotes. His first quote was for 10 x 4' fixtures. We had asked for five additional fixtures. How he came up with 10 fixtures is anybody's guess since there are 12 fixtures in the room now and they don't provide enough light. He came back with a second quote for five fixtures but it totally lacked any details as to what type they were and where they would be installed. We have given him another chance to explain exactly what he is proposing, but if he doesn't deliver a detailed quote he will be out of the picture. Very frustrating! I'd like to dump him now and stop wasting time, but we are doing this by committee so nothing will happen fast. Cheers!! Dave
Bigjim7 Thanks for the pics. Looks really nice. Must be a great time working on it.
Hi Jim,
I wish I could work on the layout more, but my back problems really throw a wrench in that. I can only stand for relatively short periods. However, now that we are about to start doing scenery in earnest, and since much of the scenery will be built on removable modules, I'm looking forward to being able to sit on a chair to do some work.
One change that will happen soon is that we are going to improve the lighting in the room. Currently there are several areas where the layout is not well lit, and the lighting over our work table is so poor that doing any detailed work like installing a coupler is a royal PITA. The landlord has agreed to chip in which is great. Unfortunately the electrician he recommended is extremely poor at providing detailed quotes. His first quote was for 10 x 4' fixtures. We had asked for five additional fixtures. How he came up with 10 fixtures is anybody's guess since there are 12 fixtures in the room now and they don't provide enough light. He came back with a second quote for five fixtures but it totally lacked any details as to what type they were and where they would be installed. We have given him another chance to explain exactly what he is proposing, but if he doesn't deliver a detailed quote he will be out of the picture. Very frustrating! I'd like to dump him now and stop wasting time, but we are doing this by committee so nothing will happen fast.
LED lighting
I bought some of these and I am real happy with them. Here is an older posting of mine,..
8 LED shop lites for $62 8 four-foot long LED lights, and linkable, all for $62 These are the latest 'shop style' lites I found at Amazon... (Pack of 8) LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture 4FT,20W,2200lm,6500K (Super Bright White),Utility led Shop Light, LED Ceiling light and Under Cabinet Light That's less than $10 per lite, and they are linkable,.. I have some concerns about the 6500K spec? I'm thinking I could link 3 of these down either of the two sides of my 15 foot long ceiling in my shed,...for 'room' lighting? Might even be usable for under upper shelf lighting?
8 four-foot long LED lights, and linkable, all for $62 These are the latest 'shop style' lites I found at Amazon... (Pack of 8) LED T5 Integrated Single Fixture 4FT,20W,2200lm,6500K (Super Bright White),Utility led Shop Light, LED Ceiling light and Under Cabinet Light That's less than $10 per lite, and they are linkable,.. I have some concerns about the 6500K spec? I'm thinking I could link 3 of these down either of the two sides of my 15 foot long ceiling in my shed,...for 'room' lighting? Might even be usable for under upper shelf lighting?
Bigjim7Thanks for the pics. Looks really nice. Must be a great time working on it.
mbinsewiIt's all lookin' good Dave! Nice to see some pictures of the clubs progress.
Thanks Mike
hon30critter I have to say that my new (relatively) Xytronics soldering station is amazing compared to the Weller station I was using before. If you are having trouble soldering, consider upgrading your unit. I wish I had done it years ago!!! Dave
I have to say that my new (relatively) Xytronics soldering station is amazing compared to the Weller station I was using before. If you are having trouble soldering, consider upgrading your unit. I wish I had done it years ago!!!
Interesting thread. I'm not sure the club situation would be right for me.
I'm a guy who has done a LOT of soldering in his life. I tell everyone that Weller soldering stations are garbage. I've never used a Xytronics, but they get good reviews. I swear by Hakko soldering stations.
Having a good iron will make all the difference in the world. I spend a good chunk of my week welding. No matter how good of a weldor you are, you will never produce quality work on a junky welder. Same goes with soldering.
congrats and enjoy.
Ed
Semi newbie HO scale modeler coming from the O scale world
It's all lookin' good Dave! Nice to see some pictures of the clubs progress.
Mike.
My You Tube
Just finished the wiring for the Service Area control panel.
The black wire is stranded, hence the relative lack of straight lines. Had to work with what we had.
One man's spaghetti is another man's pasta. Just remember the oft quoted phrase "it's your railroad".
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I remembered to take the camera to the club!!!
Here are the results:
This is on the east side of the layout facing south. The tracks through the center are the mainline and passing siding, and they turn west as they approach the wall. The tracks going to the left will run into the Hearst Pulp Mill and the tracks on the right run into a TransLoad faciliity, a power plant and a cement plant.
This is the other entrance to the Power Plant, the Transload facility and the cement plant, with the Hearst operation in the right rear. All of the uppermost raised track will be on a bridge system:
This is the other side of the aisle that ends where the power plant will be. We have made an initial attempt at base scenery:
This is the Brewery. Seven turnouts in less than 18" x 6' of track. It looks much bigger than it is:
This is the south end of the main yard:
This is the main service facility and behind it the tracks turn left leading into the north end of the main yard. Some of the buildings' positions are not final as of yet:
Here is the first attempt at a control panel for the south yard. It requires a few modifications before we produce the final version. For example, only one toggle switch is needed for turnouts 2 and 4 because it is a crossover. Also, we have changed the track plan around turnout 11 by adding in another turnout which is not shown on this diagram:
The Control Panels are only mock ups. The final versions will be much more attractive, likely black backgrounds with white track, and stained wood frames.
So, that's where the layout stands today!
Some of you will be thinking that the layout is a real spagetti bowl, and you are absolutely right! We designed the layout to maximize the number of operators. So, for example, we have seven turnouts in the Brewery area which is barely five feet long, and 13 turnouts in the Hearst Pulp Mill which is only 13 feet long.
All comments welcome!!
Thanks for your interest.
ATLANTIC CENTRALDave, if I may suggest a better signaling approach, forget about "block signals" and only install "interlocking signals". They will still be tied to detection, but do you really have room between major junction points for more than one train? If not, you don't need block signals.
Thanks for the advice Sheldon. It makes sense. I'll think about it and will probably be back with some questions soon.
Dave, if I may suggest a better signaling approach, forget about "block signals" and only install "interlocking signals". They will still be tied to detection, but do you really have room between major junction points for more than one train? If not, you don't need block signals.
On most prototype systems, as you approach a controlled turnout, or group of turnouts there is a signal head for each possible route, typically no more than three.
The top head indicates the main route, the second one the next most important, the last the most restricted diverging route.
If conditions require a complete stop, all will be red.
This type of signaling is easy to wire up either with solid state boards or simple relays, detectors and contacts on the turnouts, and is easily made into a simplified CTC system.
It will look more realistic, and should meet your needs.
If you want more info, let me know.
Sheldon
railandsailAutomatic signal device Can I get one of those for myself
Our current signalling device is already automatic. Since we don't have any signals yet, if you run into someone else you automatically get an earful from me and probably several others!
Take the camera to the club! Take the camera to the club! Take the camera to the club!! Dianne - remind me to take the camera to the club!!!
If I don't put it in the front hall right now I'll probably forget it!
(Exits temporarily to put the camera in the front hall.)
Camera is in the front hall!
This has been a lesson in how to avoid senior's moments.
Automatic signal device
Can I get one of those for myself
rrinkerThe club layout has full signaling following NORAC guidelines -
Our eventual goal is to have a working signal system with occupancy detection and dispatcher control. For now, we just want to be able to see which way the switch is thrown.
The club layout has full signaling following NORAC guidelines - helps when several people work for an actual railroad, and the guy who set it up is actually the head signal guy. However, not everyone works for a railroad, or has memorized the entire rulebook, so they get simplified instructions - basically, if the signal is anything but red over red, you can go. And unless it's green on top, slow down when you do.
Seems to work, no one seems to run into anyone else. So we can have accurate signals yet have them work for people who don't know real railroad rules. It's pretty impressive when the aspects change to all different sorts based on what should be displayed.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
JaBear!!
Great solution!! I can just imagine the looks on the faces of the club members when I tell them they have to wear one of those! Problem is that I would have a hard time restraining myself from 'stimulating' a couple of the members just because they have screwed up so often in the past! In fact, in one case in particular, I would have a hard time not leaning on the button all night long!!!
You do realize that you are bringing out the worst in me, don't you Bear?!? I do forgive you! The fantasies are very cathartic!
I'm so glad that most of the club members don't follow the forums!
hon30critterUnfortunately I have yet to develop an automatic system which slaps the operators in the side of the head when they are not paying attention to their trains! Any suggestions?
https://www.wish.com/product/5bdbb90dc3d16b70a6050dd4?from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=NZ&_force_currency_code=NZD&pid=googleadwords_int&c=%7BcampaignId%7D&ad_cid=5bdbb90dc3d16b70a6050dd4&ad_cc=NZ&ad_curr=NZD&ad_price=26.00&campaign_id=1643927955&gclid=CjwKCAjwr8zoBRA0EiwANmvpYGPt0Cd-XZr0z6jfR32U-l4CRkgZlF0fzuTP7mfDGl4wB0rMMOiachoCNHwQAvD_BwE&hide_login_modal=true
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I had a great discussion last Tuesday night with one of our club members, Brian, who just happens to have spent his entire career with Canadian National. We were talking about signals for the layout.
He was dilligently explaining what prototypical signal aspects would be shown for the turnouts and other parts of the layout. I was trying to figure out what signal aspects we should actually use in the immediate future in order to prevent head on and rear end collisions. As I have said many times, our members are still learning to operate. In fact, we have barely begun to learn how to operate.
As a result of our discussion we decided (subject to the approval of the Layout Committee) to use a somewhat modified system. The main line will have red/green signals. Red means stop, green means go (sorry if that is too obvious).
The sidings when being approached from the main line will have a red/yellow indication. Red means that you are staying on the main line. Yellow means that you will be going onto the siding. There will be a bit of redundancy involved in that if the mainline signal is red then the siding signal should be yellow and if the mainline signal is green then the siding signal should be red. Brian explained that we could do the whole scenario with just single head with red/green/yellow indications, but the wiring complexity immediately becomes far more complex. Maybe we will go there in the future, but for now all we want is a simple traffic light system. Red="you can't go that way", green or yellow='this is the route that you are about to take'.
Unfortunately I have yet to develop an automatic system which slaps the operators in the side of the head when they are not paying attention to their trains! Any suggestions?
Thanks for following this thread, and for heaven's sake, if you have a suggestion, please speak up!!
Cheers guys!! Every time I get on the forums I feel good. That is on you!
maxmanSounds like you need to be more forward thinking with your budget. What we do is decide how much we have available to spend in the coming year. Then we try to do is determine which things we would like to accomplish, Each of these is a "project". Then an estimate is made of what each project would cost, and what items are proposed to be purchased. The total of the estimates is added up. If that total exceeds the available budget, a pin gets stuck into someone's dream idea.
Hi maxman,
We did exactly the same thing. In fact our total expenditure from the start of construction to having the mainline running and the bulk of the Tortoises in place is within a couple hundred dollars of where we said we would be by that point in the construction.
There are a few reasons for why the budget has come up again. One is that we are ahead of schedule as far as the construction is concerned. Our budget was supposed to do us until October and we didn't expect to be starting scenery until after that. Turns out we can start scenery now. That's going to require about $500 for the peninsula alone just to get the basic terrain in place.
We also made the decision to buy all the turnouts we needed for the sidings at once instead of buying them on an as needed basis. That decision was prompted by the Atlas turnout backorder situation which had delayed us for several months already. We bought 46 turnouts all at once. That was almost $1000. We also need 11 more Tortoises. Hopefully we can find used ones at the shows for cheap. (If the costs seem high, keep in mind that we are talking Canadian dollars.)
Another issue is that we had not anticipated the need for a booster until we were well down the road. However, we realized at our running session a month ago that we were already getting close to the maximum capacity of the Command Station without anyone running consists and with only three sidings in operation. That has added another $200 to what we need to spend.
Fortunately nobody seems to have their shorts in a knot, and we have enough to buy the booster and some of the scenery materials before October.
Bigjim7Bigjim7 wrote the following post 13 hours ago: Maybe my post was to harsh' did not intend that.
I did not find your post to be harsh. It was an honest comment and it was a bit of a (needed) wakeup call.
Of course, your suggestion about buying a camera would have thrown another wrench into the budget confusion!