Building a new club layout - Update: Moving on after the club

[hon30critter]

Fred W:

Thanks for all the input on Free-Mo. Lots to consider.

To everyone:

It would be helpful to have a basic idea of what modules cost per foot to do the basic construction, i.e. legs and frame, sub roadbed, roadbed, track, wiring and basic scenery like ballast. Let's leave out buildings, vehicles, turnouts, mountains, valleys, bridges, rivers, roads etc. and just assume that there are a couple of straight tracks. I know that is an oversimplification, but it would be nice to be able to tell club members that if they do 'X' feet of module, the starting cost will be 'YY' dollars. Anyone have any idea of the basic cost?

Thanks

Dave

[hon30critter]

Bear:

I like the concept of having a foreman.

Thanks,

Dave

[fwright]

I'm going to come at it from the Free-mo perspective.  Some things to keep in mind:

In Free-mo (or similar modular standards), everybody owns their own modules.  This has many implications that are not obvious at the beginning.

- a club member moves away (or quits the club) and takes his modules with him (or sells them to the club or a club member).  Just think about that for a moment - there is both good and bad. On a fixed club layout, when a member moves, he loses his investment.  This gives people who move a lot of heartburn about joining fixed layout clubs, and creates heartburn when an unexpected move comes.

- If maintenance/repair is needed on a given module, it is the module owner's responsibility.  This (to me) is a big advantage of modular because you don't have to gather club members in a meeting to fix things.  One on one help teaches and advances the module owner.

- dues can be rather low, as most of the layout expenses fall on the individual.  The club only needs to pay for the space and the DCC system.  DC wiring does not work well for a changing/changeable layout.

- Modular layouts do not make the most efficient use of a given space.  However, the layout is also very easy to change, modify, add to, subtract from.

- Module owners will build the module sets they want to build.  Depending on the club membership, you may find you don't have enough of a given type of module set - whether it be yards, straight scenery runs, switching locations, passing sidings, etc.  If the club is cohesive, the shortage will be recognized and somebody will step up to build the missing module sets.  But the club as a whole has to recognize what the layout is missing in the first place.  The module-building process may be a lot easier and faster (and more accepted) than a layout design committee followed by construction approach.

- Modules (some or all) can be temporarily removed and set up at a train show or modular set-up or other special event.  There you can show others what great things you are doing.

- Everybody learns how to lay track, build scenery, and wire in doable chunks on their own modules.  The club experts help each module owner learn and become better modelers.

- All the module owners have real skin in the game, and care about where the club is going or headed.  In modular clubs, a lot of votes are limited to module owners (as I think it should be).

just my thoughts and experiences

Fred W

[bearman]

My suggestion is to appoint a foreman for the entire project who would be responsible for all final decisions, and for doling out individual tasks.  Is there a railroad term for construction forman?  Although the track plan design may require a different lead person.  Obviously, it may be necessary for a general discussion when an issue comes up before a final decision is made.  

What is a camel?  A horse designed by committee.

[hon30critter]

Thanks rrebell.

Dave

[rrebell]

For what you are doing it is best to build the modules top with foam individual to each module, bolt them together but then run the track like it was one peice with care not to do complicated work on the seams. Should you need to move, just cut out a bit of track and replace at your new location. No complicated wiring or anything else to worry about and with just a bit of slack in the  buss wires, as long as they are stranded, you can put them back together  with Posi-taps and they will be like new.

[hon30critter]

Thanks for all the replies. Lots to think about.

JaBear:

Thanks again for the PM with the module specs. The end panel jigs are also a great idea. The 1930s was just a rough approximation. I chose that date because I was guessing that that's when activity would have been at its highest with the most number of tracks etc. We want to allow other eras to be run on the layout too. To that end, vehicles and some signs etc. would be interchangeable.

Several people suggested having continuous track and roadbed over the module/section joints. Good idea.

Eight foot modules seem to make sense as a general rule, but as was said, that doesn't have to be set in stone.

I had assumed that we would establish various standards before beginning construction, including things like rail size, turnout mfr.(s), wire size, connection methods etc. etc. We have some Fast Tracks jigs but as far as I know only one member has used them.

Mr. B - If every section has its own 12 VDC power supply, does that mean that we have to run a 120 V bus to feed the power supplies? To me it would make more sense to have a 12 V bus, or maybe several buses to reduce the amperage on each section of the bus.

Please keep the ideas coming.

Thanks

Dave

[MisterBeasley]

Depending on how big each module is, I would consider providing each one with its own 12 VDC power supply for lighting structures, street lamps and so forth.  This will reduce wiring from module to module.  On my layout, I've distributed my control panels as well to have fewer turnout wires crossing module boundaries.

The word "module" can be misleading.  To me, it implies an edge configuration where tracks must meet at 90 degrees so-and-so many inches from the face.  If you are not really planning to re-configure the layout frequently, which is allowed in the modular world, I prefer to think of "sections" which can be physically separated but won't necessarily mate up with other sections.  On my layout, I've tried to have track joints at section breaks on the newer parts.

Use a strict color code and label everything under the layout.

I will be taking down my layout soon and moving.  I plan to fix a lot of these shortcomings as I dismantle it so re-assemby will be easier.

[rrinker]

 I would perhaps do what I did - build the benchwork in sections, as big as can be easily managed (most of mien were 2x8, which with lightweight constrction is easily handled through a standard 30" door. COuld go bigger if the doors are 36" or wider, and if there are no tight corners to negotiate to remove a section from the building). Smaller when it mkes sense. You can vary the shape, since the point is to just make the layout removeable if you have to move, no need to be stuck with rectangles that won;t fill the room efficiently. Leave slack in the bus to allow it to be cut and connectors added, but don;t do that immediately. Likewise, don;t cut the track and roadbed across the benchwork gaps. The layout will be much more reliable, and if you DO have to move, a Dremel makes quick work of cutting the track and roadbed. Odss are the existing layotu wouldn;t go in a new space as-is anyway, you'll either have more room or the same room but in a slightly different shape, so the sections can be reused or recycled as needed IF you move, but until then you will have a solid railroad built on easily movable benchwork sections.

 My old layout is stacked in my basement. When the dumpster is delivered to haul the trash from the basement cleaning out and demo, I will take off anything I cn use and the rest is goign right in the dumpster. It doesn;t fit my basement size plan in any way, plus most of the track isn;t even usable - I am switching to Peco for the new layout. I'll save the turnouts, I can probably resell them.

                               --Randy

 

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

You need more than just the scenery approved by the layout committee. You need standards for all areas including track, couplers, wheels, etc…. including all of the things you mentioned above.

If this club is going to have open house visitors make the aisles extra wide and make a separation for the visitors and the operators’/ members’ so that operators can walk next to the layout and visitors are just out of reach but can still follow the layout instead of just being stuck in a viewing area.

Modular design eats up space because it is squared. The old L girder method allows the layout to fill the space more efficiently and allows the track plan to flow with the room’s shape. I think history has shown that most layouts that were built to be moved in the future are scrapped instead and the new layout is a fresh start.

[Phoebe Vet]

My layout is made in 8 foot sections.  I have terminal strips on each section and my DCC bus is just daisy chained from section terminal to section terminal.

I don't like IDCs (suitcase connectors).

[davidmurray]

hon30critter

Personally, I have a few things that I would like to see done: - All track sections will have feeders attached. - We will not rely on rail joiners or turnout points to conduct power. - I would really like to have live frogs. - No liquid glue will be used anywhere near turnout moving parts

I agree with the quotes.

I would suggest eight foot long sections, where possible, and as suggested continous track and cork until a future move really occurs.  Then three inches of track can be taken out at section joints with a dremel and a razor saw.

DCC wiring use a standard buss system, with suitcased connectors to terminal strips, and then lighter wire to the track.  When moving remove suitcase to terminal strip connections, and remove the buss.

Dave

[ROBERT PETRICK]

Hey Dave-

A lot of questions. I'll offer comments, in no particular order.

Can you define 'module'? In certain instances that word has a particular meaning. I'd go with modular construction but continuous trackage. That is, no track joints at the end of every wood frame. Easy to construct and transport and place on the layout. Add track after everything is connected and leveled and whatnot.

I'd also go with coordinated construction of the modules. Experienced carpenters working directly alongside the newbies. Everyone can add their personal stamp to the whole, but everyone going their own way produces a motley quilt. Unless that's the look you're going for.

Doesn't have to be only modules. One area or peninsula or something can be modular; another area L-girders and risers or splines.

What about a theme? How are the politics of your club? Everyone get along? Accept decisions?

Enough for now.

Robert 

["JaBear"]

Gidday Dave, as you’ve already mentioned in the Diner, your clubs long term wish/goal is to possibly become tenants in the Barrie Allandale Station, a fine looking building if I may say so.

 

Therefore, any future construction should be at the very least portable. By portable I mean, capable of being moved through existing doorways without causing damage, and not busting the foo foo valves of those carrying it!!

 

I won’t comment on Free Mo as I’ve had nothing to do with it, but I am a fan of modules.

 

However, I don’t get to excited about the necessity for uniformity on module size as long as the mating ends are standard. For example, it could take four 1500mm/ 60” x 600mm /24” modules to adequately model the Barrie Allandale Station and its immediate environs so therefore I’d only expect the two outside ends to be compatible with other modules.

 

 

Rulez!! Because standards of construction have to be met, (we’ve basically adopted the appropriate NMRA recommended standards), regrettably rules need to be in place to enforce those standards.

 

I’ve emailed you a copy of our Policy on the Construction of Modules.

 

hon30critter

Or, should we just build the whole thing as a group effort?

When a club can work together with ideas bouncing of each other it’s a Good Thing!! However, some ffolkes do their best work by themselves, and others, like yourself who requires an hour round trip to the club. may find it far more “profitable” to work on a module at home. As long as the set standards are applied, there should be no problems. (Famous last words).

 

 

The club should have a jig available to all members, to drill off the attachment holes and align the track.

 

 

hon30critter

All track sections will have feeders attached. - We will not rely on rail joiners or turnout points to conduct power. - I would really like to have live frogs. - No liquid glue will be used anywhere near turnout moving parts. - Scenery will be approved by a layout committee.

A definite Yes to all of the above.

 

Here’s how we join the modules.

 

Just a thought, unless the majority of the Club members model the 1930s, is that necessarily the best date to set?

 

Well I’ve rambled on enough tonight/now this morning,

So, Have FUN!!!

Cheers, the Bear.

[hon30critter]

Hi everybody:

As some of you are aware, my club, the Barrie Allandale Railroad Modellers, has just aquired new quarters. We have about 800 sq. ft. in which to build a new layout. The layout will not be travelling although we will build it in a manner which will allow for disassembly should we decide to move again. We are considering modelling the Allandale yard and the passenger station as it would have been in its heyday in the 1930s, as well as the important features of the trackage that went both north and south from Barrie.

I'm looking for advice and suggestions on how we can go about designing and building the layout. I'm also looking for things to avoid.

Here are some of the questions that are going through my head. I'm sure there will be many more questions as the process moves forward:

- Should we build modules, or go Free-Mo, or build a structure with larger sections that could be separated relatively easily if we have to move?

- If we go for modules, should we ask each member to build modules from the ground up, or have the club build the basic modules so they are all properly matched and then let individual members do the track laying, scenery etc. Or, should we just build the whole thing as a group effort?

- What methods do you suggest for attaching the track ends at the edges of the modules?

- How should we connect the modules, both physically and electrically?

- What else do we need to think about or avoid doing?

 

Personally, I have a few things that I would like to see done:

- All track sections will have feeders attached.

- We will not rely on rail joiners or turnout points to conduct power.

- I would really like to have live frogs.

- No liquid glue will be used anywhere near turnout moving parts.

- Scenery will be approved by a layout committee. For example, I don't want to walk in one evening and discover that some individual has decided to cover half the layout in static grass, or that they have decided to add white boulders and purple bushes to the yard ballast. Yes, those are actual examples of what has recently happened with our portable layout.

So, let's hear your suggestions. What should we do and what shouldn't we do?

Thanks,

Dave