Brendan:
In my experience LED leads are treated (pre-tinned?) to make it easier for solder to adhere. That is probably what you are seeing. Sometimes there is a buildup or coating that interferes with the solder and needs to be cleaned off. Usually a light scraping with a blade will do. Some of the new "low lead" solders don't like to behave either. I've never had a problem with the "old fashioned" rosin core solders.
Joe
Hey Joe - the leds I was using had square leads. Did your leds have square leads?
Yes, they are usually rather square and also some older ones have round leads. The leads have a dull, grayish color which brightens up when scrapped or cleaned. I've worked with LEDs for a long time and they always look this way even when new. Try tinning your leads and wire before you try to solder them together.
I don't know what type of metal is used to make the LED legs, but, square, flat, or round, the legs of all LED's are intended to be soldered. For hobby purposes, a 60/40 tin/lead rosin core solder should be used for this purpose. The main cause of solder not working on metal is the failure to adequately heat the soldering iron.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich:
You make a good point. In going back and reading the OP's previous posts it sounds like the iron is just hot enough to melt the solder but not enough to heat the substrate enough for the solder to flow.
Hey Henry, Joe & Rich, you may all have nailed this in terms of the leds. I have been careful not to overheat the leads on the led for fear of damaging it. I have tinned both the led and the copper wire and the solder definately took to the copper wire when I tried to solder it to the led, but I was keenly aware of not getting the led too hot. I'll be working on it again tonight and I'll try to really heat up the led's leads before soldering it to a wire. I definately had enough heat to solder the wire. I will also try scraping the leads on the led before soldering it.
Brendan Buschi I have tinned both the led and the copper wire and the solder definately took to the copper wire when I tried to solder it to the led, but I was keenly aware of not getting the led too hot.
I have tinned both the led and the copper wire and the solder definately took to the copper wire when I tried to solder it to the led, but I was keenly aware of not getting the led too hot.
Thanks Mel - good suggestion.
Hey Mel - I actually used long nose pliers with a rubberband at a different point when I was soldering spade tongue connectors to the ends of wire.
Your pictures are great and I appreciate you putting them up. I did not think to use them with the leds though. The leds just seemed so fragile.
However, I just came up from soldering a led and it all went well. I scraped the lead with a razor then I heated it up and tinned it - then I tinned a wire and soldered the wire to the led. I held the led in place with an alligator clip that had a plier laying on it to hold it in place.
Thanks again to all.
Hey Mel - that's incredible. Can you put up some pictures of your layout?
Brendan Buschi I'll be working on it again tonight and I'll try to really heat up the led's leads before soldering it to a wire.
I'll be working on it again tonight and I'll try to really heat up the led's leads before soldering it to a wire.
Take a look at this short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0q_4E9nd4g
Thanks Rich - I've been using an old pencil iron with a 30w tip. It has to be at least 20 years old, but it could be 40 years old.
All this has made me think of getting a new soldering station and I started looking at what's out there. When I looked at anything on Amazon, I always found at least 5% one star reviews that I could not get past - I don't know enough when it comes to soldering irons. I thought the Weller Analog Soldering Station would be a no-brainer and then I read lots of reviews trashing it and saying it did not last. I have no clue. I looked at an Edsyn model that had great reviews but buying an additional tip was crazy because of the shipping charges.
I don't mind investing in a decent iron - I just don't know what that would be.
Brendan Buschi Hey Mel - that's incredible. Can you put up some pictures of your layout?
Wow Mel that's incredible. You are an artist. So what type of soldering iron are you using?
Brendan Buschi Wow Mel that's incredible. You are an artist. So what type of soldering iron are you using?
Thanks for the good words
All this talk of LEDs and soldering irons seems to be getting away from the basics of the layout construction.
Maybe I missed something here, but before one gets into LEDs and such, track is normally all installed, and wired, and tested (and tested again).
I understood that the children were going to do some scenery painting and such. I sure would like to see the results of that.
What I'm saying is that the sooner the trains are up and running, the sooner those children will enjoy them, and not have lost interest in the process of "fancy wiring and electronics.
BTW, a plain 40w soldering iron from Home Depot or Lowes will cost under $20 and do all the work you need for BASIC layout wiring. That said, I use a high power gun for soldering 14 gauge buss wires and a 30w for decoder work.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mel
Okay MobilMan - I have finished all of the basic layout except for the leds on my control panel. The grandchildren are coming tomorrow. I wanted to have everything in place for them and I will. The leds were jamming me up. I have about 2 hours more work today and I will be ready for the kids. I will also put up a picture to show where the layout is at this moment in time.
Keep your socks on. I'm dancing as fast as I can for a 70 year old.
The mechanical and electrical parts of the basic/fundamental layout are done.
I finished the led wiring just now. I need 2 wire nuts to be totally done with it, but I have to buy more - that's tomorrow on the way to pick up the kids.
So I will take a few pictures in the morning and you will see what I've been up to. You will also see a layout on a plain table that I've painted light brown. The tracks are sitting on black foam track beds. My control center is a tiny area with everything I need to run trains.
I tested everything tonight and it all works - all the switches and both of the reversing loops.
I think it will be a long time before I am comfortable with the switching sequences. I also don't want to destroy anything be having the wrong polarity in the reversing loops. So, I am very, very cautious and plodding with how I run the train.
I have one diesel locomotive and no cars. I need to aquire some cars and then I will get a steam locomotive as well.
Teaching the kids to run this is going to take a bit of time. I need to go slowly with them and work on one thing for a while until they are proficient with it, then I can proceed to another thing.
I think we will spend the vast majority of our time in the beginning creating an environment on the top of the table. I think they will jump into that with glee. I'm also betting they will want to start with the solar system.
At some point I plan to add an elevated trainline that is not mechanically or electronically attached to what I have now. When I do that I will get a subway train to run on it.
So the solar system and God knows what will evolve on the top of the table and then we will add a subway to it all.
I will post pictures tomorrow. You will get to see this. When you do, I am prepared for anything anybody has to say.
Here are a few thngs I have learned:
1. I built this using all Atlas snap track and turnouts. I am using Atlas switching machines and each switching machine has an Atlas snap relay wired in line with it. The quality of the fasteners that Atlas provides leaves a lot to be desired. I have 7 switch machines and 7 snap relays. On at least 2 of each I had trouble attaching wires because the screws would not tighten. This also happened with the Atlas twin I am using for the reversing loops. Shame on you Atlas.
2. If you don't use snap relays with the switching machines and wire appropriate leds/lights for each switch position, you can never be sure how the turnout is actually set. The position of the switch on the Atlas switch control boxes tells you nothing. The switch machine is not actually electrified until you push the switch in for a moment. Atlas has a switch control that had a led on it, but they recalled them and you can no longer get them.
3. To wire these 7 turnouts with appropriate leds, took slightly more feet of wire than it took to suspend the roadbed on the Brooklyn Bridge.
4. I ended up ordering 3mm leds that were prewired. I ordered red and green and the only difference was supposed to be the color of the light when lit. The red leds had 2 discrete wires going all the way to the base. They were easy to place on the table - all I had to do was drill 2 small holes for each one. Unfortunately the wire they used on the red leds is so small the light intensity leaves a lot to be desired. The green had great wires and they really shine bright. Unfortunately the 2 wires are sealed in the same heat shrink tube at the base so you can't drill 2 holes and if you don't drill 2 holes the led will sit about an inch above the table. You can't drill one hole because the wires, heat shrink tube and resistor under the tube are larger in diameter than the led itself. So I had to remove the heat shrink tube on all the green leds. I also had to cut off the wire to the cathode and resolder it because it had no insulation on it and the uninsulated lead at the base of the led was over an inch long.
5. You can do all your soldering with a 30 watt pencil soldering iron, but beware the lead on your leds. It turns out that all the leads on the 5mm leds I originally ordered were oxidized. When I scrapped them with a razor they were just fine, but 5mm leds are too big in my opinion. They were certainly bright because I used visible wire to add to their leads.
6. Double sided atg tape is fantastic for attaching your track bed to the table and you could also use it to attach the track to the bed, but if you did that you should also nail the track down. I nailed all my track down.
7. I will eventually ballast the track - not because it is consistent with running your trains through the solar system - trains traversing the planets are not prototypical. I will do that because I have become crazy doing this and would like to just become proficient with all aspects of this enterprise. I'm sure knowing how to ballast a track will come in handy in the afterlife.
8. If you are not patient doing this you will regret it. I have been patient. I have not stumbled into every trap and pitfall that you can, but the only reason I didn't was because I was patient and took one step at a time.
9. You can't spend too much time planning the actual layout. What I have is not what I originally planned - enough said.
10. If you can't derive pleasure from sticking to a task and completing it, don't mess with model trains.
When I see some of the layouts that are out there and some of the work people on this blog have shared wtih me I am truly amazed. Serious model railroaders are artists. If you doubt that let me assure you I know art when I see it. My hat is off to all of you who have taken this way beyond anything I will eventually accomplish.
Stay tuned - pictures to come - popcorn in the lobby.
The next stage of this should be very entertaining.
Thanks for all the help and advice.
Here are the pictures of my layout. I regard this as a canvas that is prepared for someone to paint on.
This is my Interstate Diesel Locomotive. It's the only train I have at the moment.
This is my entire control panel. The red switch at the top left controls each of the reversing loops. I am using one position on the yellow switch to control my "yard". I can turn power to that track off so if an engine is sitting there it isn't on.
This is stage 1 of the layout. It is all mechanically and electrically complete. Stage 2 will be the elevated track for the subway. The table is 14' long and 9.5' wide. There is a 4'x4' section missing from the bottom left corner in this picture. You can also see my 18'x2' manhole at the top rear. The table top is 1/2 inch plywood with a 1/8 inch sheet on top of it. The 1/8 inch sheet is very smooth and would normally be used on top of a subfloor for putting down tile. I primed and painted the table. The legs are 2x4s and the framing is 2x3s. The plywood is screwed to the framing.
This is what I use to get around under the table. It has tried to kill me several times.
This is the first of my double track crossovers. It allows me to go from the outer main to the middle transfer.
This is the second of my double track crossovers. It allows me to go from the middle transfer to the inner main. You can also see the turnout for my yard.
This is the wiring under my control panel.
More wiring.
This is a row of halogen track lights over the layout. It is on a dimmer. I can simulate different times of day with it.
I had to include this because it is a tiny vacuum that attaches to my shop vac. It cost less than $8 delivered. It is perfect for vacuuming the tracks.
Well, welcome to my layout. The kids are all in bed. Tomorrow we will start the process of planning and constructing the layout surface. I got each of them an engineer's hat.
I used all Atlas snap track, switch machines, switches, snap relays and turnouts. The track is on top of foam and it is nailed down. All the curved track sections are soldered. There are 3 power feeds to the outer main, 1 to each of the reversing loops, 1 to the middle transfer that connects the reversing loops, 2 to the inner main and 1 to the yard. The power feeds all emanate from a star bus as per the recommendations of MTH. I have a seperate AC power supply powering all the switch machines and snap relays.
I plan to ballast the track using fine ballast because I want to learn ballasting.
Thanks Mel. I started looking at your blog. Your work is incredible. I need to go to sleep so I will resume exploring your blog in the days to come. When I see work such as yours I am optimistic about our species.
It all looks great! You have done a lot of work in a relatively short period of time and you should be proud of that.
Trains in space eh?!? That will be interesting to follow.
Well done!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks Dave.
I decided to work in stages with the grandchildren. Ever, my granddaughter, is 5. We went to inspect the layout and here's what she said in the order she said it:
1. Wow - we have a lot to do here!
2. We need some grass.
3. We could get a big stick and put a big ball on it for the sun.
Mind you, I said nothing to her. This is what she came up with on seeing the layout.
We spent some time moving the locomotive around the entire layout. She liked seeing the train go from track to track and reversing. I am going to do a graphic for the switches so I can remember what switch to throw, then she can work the switches with me guiding her. Of course I need to tell her what switch to throw and right now I don't have that down.
Then we had a detailed discussion on exactly where we should start. She said we need a station and told me she has a wooden station at home. She said she wanted to start by building a tunnel and we agreed that that would be the very first thing we do. The kids are with us for 4 days every 2 or 3 weeks. On their next visit we will make a tunnel. I plan to get 2 portals. When they are here we will attach the portals to the table and build some kind of a skeleton for the tunnel. I think I will also have on hand some of those plaster impregnated sheets to put over the skeleton. When that dries we will paint the tunnel to simulate a mountainside. If we get that done on the next visit I will be extremely happy and post some pictures.
I am also going to experiment with ballast in the next few days. If I feel comfortable with that then Ever and I will also ballast the track on their next visit.
Once the tunnel is done, I predict we will move onto the sun. That will be the visit after next and we will plan for it on the next visit. If we get the sun done, then I predict the visits after that will be the planets until we have the solar system completed.
If you think I have a clue beyond the tunnel, you're wrong. So far the only thing I have is a big stick with a ball on top. Ever at least has the workings of a plan.
The other thing that will happen is that I can now take the kids to see model trains and start getting a few cars to go with the locomotive. I don't think it matters who the manufacturer is. I want to get good models when we do and I also want to make sure the couplers are good. For the diesel engine I thought we would get passenger cars and make that a passenger train. The next locomotive will be a steam engine and I thought we would get various freight cars for that and make it a freight train.
I want the kids to learn about trains and what they do and how they are used.
Does anybody have any recommendations as to what manufacturer's cars to buy?
I got my first freight cars today - all 3. It was great seeing them going around being pulled by the locomotive. It was great seeing them navigate all the tracks and turnouts.
I learned a few things.
First - people have complained about the automatic couplers on MTH locomotives. I experienced what they described. It was being caused by a very slight bump in the track where it went over a seam. I fixed the seam and all's well - no more decoupling.
Second - you should not thnk about ballasting until you have tested every inch of the track big time. Thankfully I have not yet started ballasting.
I am also measuring and coming up with a design for a tunnel. I hope to construct it with my granddaughter next time she is here. I will put some pictures up of it when we do so.
Hi Brendan:
Congratulations on acquiring some rolling stock, and congratulations on your problem solving skills!
Brendan Buschiyou should not thnk about ballasting until you have tested every inch of the track big time.
Re the tunnel, I'm sure you have already thought of this but just in case you haven't, remember to make the tunnel removable for track cleaning as well as recovery of derailed cars. There is an oft proven rule in model railroading - cars will always derail and locos will always stall where it is the hardest to get at them!
Thanks Dave. The tunnel will take up a corner edge of the table and the entire back of it will be open and accessible.