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Constructing a Series of Diamond Crossings

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Constructing a Series of Diamond Crossings
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 27, 2013 7:52 AM

On my Dream Layout, I would need to build 20 diamond crossings at Alton Junction in Chicago.

Who can say for certain what the degrees of the various crossings would have to be and, undoubtedly, these exact crossings would not be commercially available.

You can see these crossings in the green box in the drawing below.

That's the bad news.  The good news is that only the tracks outlined in red would be functional as wired tracks. The rest is purely aesthetic.

So, my question is, what would be the most practical way to construct these crossings.  I am thinking handlaid with Fast Tracks or some such thing.  Maybe set it up as one piece that can be dropped in place.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Motley on Friday, September 27, 2013 9:01 AM

Uh oh. Are you thinking of starting on the dream layout? What are your plans?

Michael


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Posted by cacole on Friday, September 27, 2013 9:25 AM

Practically every one is on a curved track, so there are no commercially available crossings.  If you stick to that track plan, they'll have to be scratch built.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, September 27, 2013 10:12 AM

cacole

Practically every one is on a curved track, so there are no commercially available crossings.  If you stick to that track plan, they'll have to be scratch built.

Well, this is where you modify the design to fit what is available, and what you can do. If you can do hand laid, go fo it,

LION would curve into that crossing complex, but the tracks crossing each other would actually be straight, then I would finish the curve on the other side.

How will it work electrically. LION would isolate the whole thing, and only give routes with green signals the power.

LION *likes* his interlocking towers. Take time to build a proper tower for that plant. You will enjoy it.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, September 27, 2013 10:36 AM

Wow quite a project and the prototype degree of crossing would seemingly be something that would also need the prototype curve radius which I suspect is impractical even on a dream layout.

While I am sure some track charts somewhere have the degree information, I'd take a look at Mike Schaefer's track plan that appeared some years back in Model Railroad Planning.  He has a condensed version of State Line Tower and crossing which is similarly complex and selectively compressed on his huge layout.

If you do handlay the track take careful notes and documentation and in-progress photos.  That would take points in the NMRA's achievement program towards Master Model Railroader.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 27, 2013 1:26 PM

Richie,

You sure do know how to pick um,,,,I'll have  to agree with,DN, WOW !! I can see it now,,''night mares'' in my dreams,about Rich's Diamonds..........Have a Lot of Fun,on that one Buddy...Bow

Cheers, Drinks Drinks Drinks

Frankie

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Posted by mobilman44 on Friday, September 27, 2013 5:14 PM

Seems like an overpass would have been placed there way back when............

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 27, 2013 5:32 PM

I have been where Rich is talking about and it sure is,one heck of a Engineering feat,on someone's part..

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

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Posted by peahrens on Friday, September 27, 2013 5:35 PM

I used XtrackCAD for my plan, so I would perhaps try to create on the PC with commercial crossings, closest to the optimum angle.  Add flextrack and other features that connect to or overlay flex curves to the shortest you think you can cut the commercial crossings.  Alternately, get full scale copies of the crossings and turnouts for the system and play with them and flextrack on a scrap piece of plywood. 

If you go with commercial, HO code 83, I'd avoid Atlas crossings basis my 90 degree crossing experience.  I used their flex but the crossings (I have three in series) had many rolling stock items bumping over them because the clearances of the guards or depth at the guard rails is far off.  I've fiddled with them (filing) and reduced the problem but would never (don't ever say that) buy them again.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 27, 2013 5:39 PM

Now I am really brimming with optimism............................not.   Laugh

Remember though that only the tracks outlined in red would be functional as wired tracks. The rest is purely aesthetic.

So, the diamonds and the tight curves do not need to be operational.  Only the red colored tracks passing through the diamonds need to be wired and operational, as they lead to other parts of the layout.

Hand laying the curved tracks and diamonds would take some level of skill, but the main objective would be to look realistic without interfering with the operation of the red colored tracks that pass through the diamonds.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 27, 2013 5:50 PM

Rich,

Idea!! Build the Red section,first,get that operational and build up around that,,,,,,then have a track gang standing around it scratching their heads? NO??Whistling

Cheers, Clown

Frankie

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 27, 2013 5:56 PM

zstripe

Rich,

Idea!! Build the Red section,first,get that operational and build up around that,,,,,,then have a track gang standing around it scratching their heads? NO??Whistling

Cheers, Clown

Frankie

YES !

Kidding aside, I think that is exactly the way to do it, Frank.

Lay the red colored tracks and make the layout operational, then build and install the crossings.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BATMAN on Friday, September 27, 2013 7:07 PM

Wow!  Look at all those curved tracks that need to be laid. I hope you're not going to use the springy stuff. That would be a job for an octopus.MischiefLaugh

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, September 27, 2013 7:15 PM

richhotrain

 

 

Forget Fast tracks, they build a set angle and None of those is going to be a set angle.

I see at least two options.

1.  Draw it all out in place.  Lay all the ties for all the routes.  Spike down the rails for the dummy routes through the crossings.  Mark the locations of the red rails on the tops of the dummy tracks.  Notch about halfway down into the rails on the dummy tracks.  Take the red rails and notch about halfway up from the base at the locations it crosses the dummy rails.  Spike the red rails in place.  Add guard rails.

2.  Lay the red route and then butt the dummy tracks up to the red rails, filing them off at angles. and spike down.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 27, 2013 7:57 PM

dehusman

Forget Fast tracks, they build a set angle and None of those is going to be a set angle.

I see at least two options.

1.  Draw it all out in place.  Lay all the ties for all the routes.  Spike down the rails for the dummy routes through the crossings.  Mark the locations of the red rails on the tops of the dummy tracks.  Notch about halfway down into the rails on the dummy tracks.  Take the red rails and notch about halfway up from the base at the locations it crosses the dummy rails.  Spike the red rails in place.  Add guard rails.

Option two after dinner.

Dave,

Option 1 is interesting if I thought that I could notch the rails correctly so as not to create humps or dips.  A very interesting possibility.

Hurry up and eat dinner so I can hear Option 2.   Dinner

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, September 27, 2013 8:00 PM

Salmon with orange marmalade sauce, oven fried potatoes, green beans, cauliflower and sour dough  bread.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, September 27, 2013 8:03 PM

dehusman

Salmon with orange marmalade sauce, oven fried potatoes, green beans, cauliflower and sour dough  bread.

Grilled?

Oven fried potatoes, red potatoes I presume, sound great. 

But, i would substitute asparagus with Hollandaise sauce for the green beans and cauliflower.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, September 27, 2013 9:07 PM

Howdy, Rich,

Given the need for a puzzle palace, here's my method:

  • Lay out the track centerlines full size on cardstock - the stuff I use comes in 20 by 30 inch sheets from the Big Box office supply emporium.
  • Temporarily lay flex track on each centerline, and use a carpenter's pencil to cut in the tie lines.  Do this on EVERY rail route.
  • Look at photos of crossings to see how the rails are supported on non-standard ties at odd angles.  If you have photos of that specific area, so much the better.
  • Install crossing ties, same thickness as the ties under your flex track.  Then, lay the two red tracks with flex track, gently removing the plastic ties where they would conflict with the crossing ties.  (Note - it is possible to slide ties on flex track, but requires patience and a gentle touch.)
  • After the working tracks have been test run and tweaked as necessary use flex to build up to the outside of the working tracks,  Aftter that, it will take six short lengths of rail to complete each route across the two 'hot' tracks - gapped to prevent electrical shorts, soldered to the stock track rails to anchor them at one end.
  • Finally, dremel out the flangeways in the stock rails each place where wheels on the dummy routes need them - for that beautiful, prototypical wheel slamming every time a metal wheelset passes through.

I leave figuring out how to simulate the corner brace castings, and the humongous nut/bolt/washer sets that hold the whole works together, as an exercise for the student.

For your next exercise, try crossing four tangent tracks with two tangent tracks at an appropriate frog angle, then connecting them all with double slips.  Extra points for frog-closing arrangements (pun intentional.)

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with puzzle palaces)

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 27, 2013 9:35 PM

Rich,

I could very well agree with some of the idea's,,,,but I won't,,to me they involve to much,to do in the beginning,,you will be wasting all your time trying to cut and fit pieces together,not even knowing if it will work,,you may even get discouraged and not do it at all.......Do the red tracks first,get them operational and be able to use them,while you are working on the others..Who knows,you may come up with a better way,,once you see the red track in place,,even if you don't,you at least can use what you did put down..

Cheers,Drinks

Frank

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, September 27, 2013 9:58 PM

Rich,

I can't add much, except my first ever piece of handlaid track was a crossing and it works. I'd say you've got your work cut out for youSurprise

You're right that having a lot as non-functional will make things easier. Laying the rail is bad enough with that many crossings, but the gaps and feeders will drive you bonkers.

If it was me, I'd give consideration to how it would look with one less set of tracks through it. That would still make a heck of an impression, while limiting the chance they'll have to haul you off to the rubber room.Clown

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, September 27, 2013 10:26 PM

Mike,

He already is in the ''rubber room'',,,,He's in the one next to mine..Stick out tongue

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

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Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, September 28, 2013 12:41 AM

zstripe

Mike,

He already is in the ''rubber room'',,,,He's in the one next to mine..Stick out tongue

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

I was wondering who the new guy was. Smile, Wink & Grin

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, September 28, 2013 1:10 AM

BATMAN

zstripe

Mike,

He already is in the ''rubber room'',,,,He's in the one next to mine..Stick out tongue

Cheers, Drinks

Frank

I was wondering who the new guy was. Smile, Wink & Grin

Heh, heh.Smile

They keep telling me I'm not, but why are the walls so spongy?Smile, Wink & Grin

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by "JaBear" on Saturday, September 28, 2013 1:46 AM

Scheesh Rich, you're going to to require a lot of patience and possibly all of these

to get that done!!! Looking forward to the photos. Smile, Wink & Grin

Seriously GOOD LUCK.

Cheers, the Bear.

PS. asparagus quickly grilled on the barbecue and lightly drizzled with balsamic vinegar is quite yum.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:18 AM

tomikawaTT

Given the need for a puzzle palace, here's my method:

  • Look at photos of crossings to see how the rails are supported on non-standard ties at odd angles.  If you have photos of that specific area, so much the better.

Chuck, that is great advice, and I will hold onto your reply.

Here is a photo of the diamonds at Alton Junction.  The photo is taken at a slightly different angle than the track diagram.

Those two tracks crossing the diamonds are the "live" tracks on my Dream Layout.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:23 AM

mlehman

If it was me, I'd give consideration to how it would look with one less set of tracks through it. That would still make a heck of an impression, while limiting the chance they'll have to haul you off to the rubber room.Clown

Never!

Blasphemy !

Gotta have that 4-track C&WI mainline running through Alton Junction.

To do otherwise would be like drinking an Old Fashioned without the cherry.   Drinks

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:29 AM

dehusman

Forget Fast tracks, they build a set angle and None of those is going to be a set angle.

I see at least two options.

1.  Draw it all out in place.  Lay all the ties for all the routes.  Spike down the rails for the dummy routes through the crossings.  Mark the locations of the red rails on the tops of the dummy tracks.  Notch about halfway down into the rails on the dummy tracks.  Take the red rails and notch about halfway up from the base at the locations it crosses the dummy rails.  Spike the red rails in place.  Add guard rails.

2.  Lay the red route and then butt the dummy tracks up to the red rails, filing them off at angles. and spike down.

Dave, thanks for the advice.

I think that Option 2 is the way to go,

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:44 AM

DUH!!!!!!

Cheers, Drinks

Frankie

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:58 AM

Here is a closeup of a typical crossing.

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:52 AM

YUP!! Piece of cake,,,,,After the Red line is in,,,the only problem,I see,is finding,the nut & bolt,detail..If you want it..You cut the Red line track,to create the crossing,,,just not all the way,through both rails..With one of the wider Dremel cut off disc's..You will hear the clickty,clack,that way..

Cheers,

Frank

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