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Constructing a Series of Diamond Crossings

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Posted by chipset35 on Saturday, January 15, 2022 2:38 PM

There you go thats it!

My apologies for the backward posts, I got my Covid booster yesterday and I have been sick since.

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Posted by cuyama on Friday, January 14, 2022 4:33 PM

richhotrain
Byron, I wonder if he is referring to the image of that layout at the bottom of your post.

Probably not, since he's started another thread about Fred Soop. But larger views of the HOn3/HO track plan in my signature are here.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 14, 2022 11:30 AM

7j43k

I'm not sure if this link will work as I intend, but it's what appears to be a view of the present-day Alton Junction: 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Stewart+Ave,+Chicago,+IL/@41.8540416,-87.6378816,471m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e2ec16871fe61:0x9398a446e0bd737e!8m2!3d41.7917108!4d-87.6355427 

Ed 

Yep, that is, unfortunately, all that remains of Alton Junction. When Dearborn Station was closed, the 4-track C&WI mainline that formed most of the diamonds at Alton Junction was all torn up and removed. That left the 2-track PRR mainline that once paralleled the C&WI and which today still carries commuter trains and Amtrak over the PRR vertical lift bridge which can be seen in that Google photo.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 14, 2022 11:22 AM

chipset35
 
cuyama

 Hi Byron, its the image you attached and inserted. 

chipset35
For the image cuyama 

I don't know to which image you are referring. Fred Soop's article was in the Layout Design SIG's Layout Design Journal #46 and in the Operations SIG's Dispatchers Office in July 2011. Back issues are available from each organization.

Byron 

Byron, I wonder if he is referring to the image of that layout at the bottom of your post.

Rich

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, January 14, 2022 9:24 AM

I'm not sure if this link will work as I intend, but it's what appears to be a view of the present-day Alton Junction:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Stewart+Ave,+Chicago,+IL/@41.8540416,-87.6378816,471m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e2ec16871fe61:0x9398a446e0bd737e!8m2!3d41.7917108!4d-87.6355427

 

Ed

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 14, 2022 8:16 AM

chipset & all,

Just an FYI: Your reply text should go AFTER the 2nd bracketed quote - i.e. [/quote].  Otherwise, it gets lost inside the quote boxes.  If that's still unclear, just scroll down past ALL the quoted text THEN type in your reply.

FWIW...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by chipset35 on Friday, January 14, 2022 8:11 AM

cuyama

 Hi Byron, its the image you attached and inserted.

 
chipset35
For the image cuyama

 

I don't know to which image you are referring. Fred Soop's article was in the Layout Design SIG's Layout Design Journal #46 and in the Operations SIG's Dispatchers Office in July 2011. Back issues are available from each organization.

Byron

 

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:22 PM

chipset35
For the image cuyama

I don't know to which image you are referring. Fred Soop's article was in the Layout Design SIG's Layout Design Journal #46 and in the Operations SIG's Dispatchers Office in July 2011. Back issues are available from each organization.

Byron

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:47 AM

At one time, 26 diamonds made up Alton Junction.

Alton Junction

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Posted by chipset35 on Thursday, January 13, 2022 10:03 AM

For the image cuyama, but any information above and beyond what I already have from what he posted would be appreciated.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 13, 2022 9:31 AM

chipset35
 
cuyama

Since it's a "dream" layout, it probably doesn't matter, but there's a lot more to making the crossings operational than just building the diamonds.  An actual layout design with four or more operating "arms" in multiple directions can be a challenge in terms of aisles and operator paths. That's another good reason why it can make sense to leave some crossing paths as simulated only. 

Fred Soop moved well beyond the dream stage in building an impressive multi-deck Chicago area layout in HO featuring passenger operations in- and out of Chicago Union Station in the Amtrak era. He uses some clever methods for cutting down Walthers components for complex areas such as the Harrison Street Interlocking.

These were described in his article on his layout in Layout Design Journal #46 (Spring 2012), published by the Layout Design SIG. His operating scheme is described in the July 2011 issue of the Dispatcher's Office magazine published by the Operations SIG. Back issues of each magazine are available. 

Thank you Sir!

Anyway to make that image bigger?

It's an 8-year old thread, so not sure if you are addressing your question to me as the OP or cuyama?

Rich

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Posted by chipset35 on Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:54 AM

cuyama

Since it's a "dream" layout, it probably doesn't matter, but there's a lot more to making the crossings operational than just building the diamonds.  An actual layout design with four or more operating "arms" in multiple directions can be a challenge in terms of aisles and operator paths. That's another good reason why it can make sense to leave some crossing paths as simulated only. 

Fred Soop moved well beyond the dream stage in building an impressive multi-deck Chicago area layout in HO featuring passenger operations in- and out of Chicago Union Station in the Amtrak era. He uses some clever methods for cutting down Walthers components for complex areas such as the Harrison Street Interlocking.

These were described in his article on his layout in Layout Design Journal #46 (Spring 2012), published by the Layout Design SIG. His operating scheme is described in the July 2011 issue of the Dispatcher's Office magazine published by the Operations SIG. Back issues of each magazine are available.

 

 

Thank you Sir!

Anyway to make that image bigger?

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Posted by chipset35 on Thursday, January 13, 2022 8:41 AM

Thank you Sir!

Anyway to make that image bigger?

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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, September 29, 2013 8:15 AM

Come on guys............    Lets talk of diaramas and civil war railroading - like the "General"!

 

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, September 29, 2013 4:48 AM

Rich,

OH!! Youse,,Wanna Play that way Huh?? I will keep that in mind,,,''Buddy'' of the basic wiring thread..Angry

Cheers,Drinks

Frankie

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, September 29, 2013 4:36 AM

zstripe

Rich,

Is this Thread going to be 5 pages long,like the,basic wiring thread?? Just Kidding!! Oops Bow

Cheers,Drinks

Frankie

Frankie, without your feckless replies (9 to be exact), this thread would only be on the second page, and all of the information would be helpful and meaningful.   Black Eye

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 28, 2013 3:28 PM

Rich,

Is this Thread going to be 5 pages long,like the,basic wiring thread?? Just Kidding!! Oops Bow

Cheers,Drinks

Frankie

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 3:08 PM

cuyama

Fred Soop moved well beyond the dream stage in building an impressive multi-deck Chicago area layout in HO featuring passenger operations in- and out of Chicago Union Station in the Amtrak era. He uses some clever methods for cutting down Walthers components for complex areas such as the Harrison Street Interlocking.

These were described in his article on his layout in Layout Design Journal #46 (Spring 2012), published by the Layout Design SIG. His operating scheme is described in the July 2011 issue of the Dispatcher's Office magazine published by the Operations SIG. Back issues of each magazine are available.

Thanks, cuyama, I will have to get my hands on a copy of that issue. I hope that there are lots of photos.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 3:06 PM

cuyama

Since it's a "dream" layout, it probably doesn't matter, but there's a lot more to making the crossings operational than just building the diamonds.  An actual layout design with four or more operating "arms" in multiple directions can be a challenge in terms of aisles and operator paths. That's another good reason why it can make sense to leave some crossing paths as simulated only. 

Great point, that is a big part of why I want to only simulate the crossings - - - space.

Rich

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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, September 28, 2013 2:55 PM

richhotrain

mlehman

If it was me, I'd give consideration to how it would look with one less set of tracks through it. That would still make a heck of an impression, while limiting the chance they'll have to haul you off to the rubber room.Clown

Never!

Blasphemy !

Gotta have that 4-track C&WI mainline running through Alton Junction.

To do otherwise would be like drinking an Old Fashioned without the cherry.   Drinks

Rich

OK, just checking if you were serious about this.Wink

I've actually been past there on the train and can definitely see the charm. It's too urban for me, but this is about how to build your dream, not mine.Big Smile

Mike Lehman

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Posted by cuyama on Saturday, September 28, 2013 12:55 PM

Since it's a "dream" layout, it probably doesn't matter, but there's a lot more to making the crossings operational than just building the diamonds.  An actual layout design with four or more operating "arms" in multiple directions can be a challenge in terms of aisles and operator paths. That's another good reason why it can make sense to leave some crossing paths as simulated only. 

Fred Soop moved well beyond the dream stage in building an impressive multi-deck Chicago area layout in HO featuring passenger operations in- and out of Chicago Union Station in the Amtrak era. He uses some clever methods for cutting down Walthers components for complex areas such as the Harrison Street Interlocking.

These were described in his article on his layout in Layout Design Journal #46 (Spring 2012), published by the Layout Design SIG. His operating scheme is described in the July 2011 issue of the Dispatcher's Office magazine published by the Operations SIG. Back issues of each magazine are available.

Tags: Chicago
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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, September 28, 2013 12:08 PM

Richhotrain,

   The diamonds are in your dream layout, not mine.   Given your past accomplishments, I know you could make the proper fully live representation of the prototype.   You can do it!!! 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:56 AM

dehusman

richhotrain

 

My one hesitation about Option 1 would be my questioned ability to cut out pieces of rail precisely so I don't cause derailments when passing over the diamonds.

 

I think you misunderstood Option 1.  Except for guardrails the shortest piece of rail you have to use in Option 1 is 3 feet and that's because you can't buy longer rail.  You could actually incorporate the guardrails into that and not cut any short pieces (although it wouldn't be as prototypical looking.

Option 2 is the one that uses a gazillion little pieces of rail.

No, what I meant was my ability to perfectly notch the top of the dummy rail and the bottom of the live rail to fit the live rail into the dummy rail.  It's just that I think it will require precision to avoid humps or dips on the crossings.

Rich

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:23 AM

richhotrain

 

My one hesitation about Option 1 would be my questioned ability to cut out pieces of rail precisely so I don't cause derailments when passing over the diamonds.

 

I think you misunderstood Option 1.  Except for guardrails the shortest piece of rail you have to use in Option 1 is 3 feet and that's because you can't buy longer rail.  You could actually incorporate the guardrails into that and not cut any short pieces (although it wouldn't be as prototypical looking.

Option 2 is the one that uses a gazillion little pieces of rail.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 10:34 AM

mobilman44

But dummy tracks would not be  a proper representation of the real thing!   It would be sooo cool to have it all working as the prototype, with trains going thru the diamonds in all 4 directions!

Well, I'll tell you what, Mr. Mobilman. 

What say you build a completely operational 20-diamond crossing and take a video or two for us,   Super Angry

Rich

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, September 28, 2013 10:22 AM

But dummy tracks would not be  a proper representation of the real thing!   It would be sooo cool to have it all working as the prototype, with trains going thru the diamonds in all 4 directions!

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:19 AM

dehusman

richhotrain

 

I think that Option 2 is the way to go,

 

A lot of it depends on how detailed the crossing need to be and whether you are going to solder all the frogs together.

Personally I would do option #1.  The toughest part will be getting all the curves in and parallel.  The red tracks are straight lines, they are easy to cut.  Plus if you put in the red line last, since its on top you could have a continuous running surface if you liked, but you'll probably want to notch it to get the clickety clack going across the diamonds.

The other way would be to find the commercial crossings that best fit the angles and then trim them up close to the diamonds and connect all the curves with flex track.  Might not be as pretty or the angles might differ from the pictures, but would be quicker.

You raise good points, Dave.

My one hesitation about Option 1 would be my questioned ability to cut out pieces of rail precisely so I don't cause derailments when passing over the diamonds.

As far as commercial crossings are concerned, I might be able to find something close, but I worry about the cost, considering that I would need 20 of them.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:15 AM

mobilman44

I wonder about butting the tracks up to the crossing and making them dummies..........

Kind of reminds me of a static museum diorama - like the one with the General that was written up here on the Forum some time ago.

With a good Dremel, and rail and the proper soldering iron, you could make your own crossings and keep it all "live" !!! 

After all, it is a DREAM layout, so lets do it right!

No need to make the "dummy" tracks live because they would lead to nowhere on the Dream Layout.

On that section of the layout, only the red colored tracks would be live wired because that route leads to other parts of the layout whereas the unpowered tracks are simply there to reflect the prototype.

Rich

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Posted by dehusman on Saturday, September 28, 2013 8:24 AM

richhotrain

 

I think that Option 2 is the way to go,

 

A lot of it depends on how detailed the crossing need to be and whether you are going to solder all the frogs together.

Personally I would do option #1.  The toughest part will be getting all the curves in and parallel.  The red tracks are straight lines, they are easy to cut.  Plus if you put in the red line last, since its on top you could have a continuous running surface if you liked, but you'll probably want to notch it to get the clickety clack going across the diamonds.

The other way would be to find the commercial crossings that best fit the angles and then trim them up close to the diamonds and connect all the curves with flex track.  Might not be as pretty or the angles might differ from the pictures, but would be quicker.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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