Agricultural vs Industrial: A new controversy?

[Anonymous]

After the sucesses of the last post I made (over 100 replies in a week! Wow, thanks guys and gals. We covered alot of ground!) I thought I would try a less "in your face" topic.

I have noticed, and you too if you have visited the admittedly limited work I have done on my website, that my style and culture of my layout is Agricultural. I like the "small town" rural look since that is the land of my upbringing. This aside, in one of my photographs I accidentally caught a gas meter in the background. I then began to ponder an industrial section.

In the modeling of your layout (i.e. prototypes) do you like to model rural or urban railroads?

Is there a favoring of rural layouts in large scale?

Is it because only rural structures are offered? Or is it that rural is easier? Or is it the Gardening aspect of it that is the true culprit!?

Is an industrial motiff too ugly, or too expensive?

Debate Topic:

Resolved: That most model railroads in Large Scale have a rural style and that industrial scenes are more cumbersome than rural ones.

Have at it my fine friends!

[tangerine-jack]

ARGHHH! Not another controversy!

Well, not being one to miss an opportunity to shoot off my mouth, or stick my foot in it for that matter, I will weigh in with this:
Rural is easier because it utilzes most of the natural environment we are in by virtue of being outdoors. Industrial requires a lot of structures which are subject to the depravations of that said environment. HOWEVER: a rural only RR has no purpose with out some industry to justify it's existance.

My solution (and since this is to be another controversy I will say it's the correct and superior solution) is to have your RR a rural tourist line. You have industry (tourism) in a rural environment, with your choice of structures representing any industry you happen to want along the way that the tourist would enjoy looking at, and if desired, a town to provide the tourist a place to spend thier money.

Ok, y'all, let's do it!!!![:D][:D][:D][oX)]

[Anonymous]

It started in the rural areas with the trains going through, to move the live stock , the stock yards started along the tracks, then grain elevators move their . so now you have industry and agricultural working together., and you still need trains to move the economy . [2c] Ben

[tangerine-jack]

Interesting point, Ben. I wonder how many garden RRs evolve in a prototypical manner ie. starting out sparse or "agricultural" then evolving as our personal finances increase into a more "industrial" flavor. Mine seems to be doing just that as my new addition is almost exclusively modern-urban, and the Old Line is very much a cheesy tourist trap (you should see how much I charge for drinks!). I'll check back on this topic after my short hiatus and see what got stirred up.[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Having thought long and hard ,my garden is going to slowly turn into a tram (trolley for the US ) line.I'll keep the mainline for the children (and me) but I like the idea of a limited inter village tram service (after all,it takes a while to walk up the garden for a beer ).The children can run the main line and I will sneak in with my trams and steal their passengers!!
The added advantage of running trams is that I have to scratchbuild them all.Keeps me amused in the winter months.
I maybe an oddity but sometimes I enjoy the buiding more than the running.
Troy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

ARGHHH! Not another controversy!

Well, not being one to miss an opportunity to shoot off my mouth, or stick my foot in it for that matter, I will weigh in with this:
Rural is easier because it utilzes most of the natural environment we are in by virtue of being outdoors. Industrial requires a lot of structures which are subject to the depravations of that said environment. HOWEVER: a rural only RR has no purpose with out some industry to justify it's existance.

My solution (and since this is to be another controversy I will say it's the correct and superior solution) is to have your RR a rural tourist line. You have industry (tourism) in a rural environment, with your choice of structures representing any industry you happen to want along the way that the tourist would enjoy looking at, and if desired, a town to provide the tourist a place to spend thier money.

Ok, y'all, let's do it!!!![:D][:D][:D][oX)]

OK, I promise, this will be the last controversy thread in a long while. I, however, must admit that I have had a good time reading all the posts. I, again however, don't want to cause so much friction to the friendships herein by making posts based on "political forum" formulae.

I have considered building some industrial structures our of earthenware clay and backing them in a kiln. So long as the walls aren't too think it will bake just fine and it will last. What would y'all think of this? is it possible or too difficult? I made some Revolutionary War chess figures out of this material and they seemed just fine.

I have played witht he tourism angle, it think a railroad's primary goal should be to haul things, thus my rail line will serve two functions- Tourism/commuter Passenger and agricultural frieght. The Induatrial will come later as I develop methods to build the structures.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bennysrr

It started in the rural areas with the trains going through, to move the live stock , the stock yards started along the tracks, then grain elevators move their . so now you have industry and agricultural working together., and you still need trains to move the economy . [2c] Ben

Mine is Agricultural becuase of the garden aspect. Stoctyards will be forthcoming. I would love grain elevators. Marty and Bman seem to have the best I have thus far seen. If you have some on your layout, please let me in on it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

Interesting point, Ben. I wonder how many garden RRs evolve in a prototypical manner ie. starting out sparse or "agricultural" then evolving as our personal finances increase into a more "industrial" flavor. Mine seems to be doing just that as my new addition is almost exclusively modern-urban, and the Old Line is very much a cheesy tourist trap (you should see how much I charge for drinks!). I'll check back on this topic after my short hiatus and see what got stirred up.[oX)]

I would like to see your "modern urban" section.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Having thought long and hard ,my garden is going to slowly turn into a tram (trolley for the US ) line.I'll keep the mainline for the children (and me) but I like the idea of a limited inter village tram service (after all,it takes a while to walk up the garden for a beer ).The children can run the main line and I will sneak in with my trams and steal their passengers!!
The added advantage of running trams is that I have to scratchbuild them all.Keeps me amused in the winter months.
I maybe an oddity but sometimes I enjoy the buiding more than the running.
Troy

I've never had much of a flare for trollies, but I have seen your work and am impressed by that green and white tram you have. We may be getting real trollies in Corpus Christi, Texas. The community is fighting in because of high tax rates that are on a steady rise and, although the Federal Government is providing the funds for initial construction, the maintenance cost is not justified.

[SandyR]

Tangarine Jack is right; the fact that our railroads are outdoors in a garden setting really skews the bias toward agriculture. Indoors is another matter, where buildings don't have to be weatherproof and also may well be the whole focus of the scenery.
I like the tourist line idea, too, and have considered that for my garden line.
There's a third way to look at it: a railfan's railroad, where you just sit and watch the train(s) go by. That's my approach. And I change out my buildings from time to time to vary the scene a bit. I change locos and cars too, from session to session. It's whatever I feel like enjoying on any particular day!
SandyR

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SandyR

Tangarine Jack is right; the fact that our railroads are outdoors in a garden setting really skews the bias toward agriculture. Indoors is another matter, where buildings don't have to be weatherproof and also may well be the whole focus of the scenery.
I like the tourist line idea, too, and have considered that for my garden line.
There's a third way to look at it: a railfan's railroad, where you just sit and watch the train(s) go by. That's my approach. And I change out my buildings from time to time to vary the scene a bit. I change locos and cars too, from session to session. It's whatever I feel like enjoying on any particular day!
SandyR

Sandy,

Yours is "pure" large scale railroading, I would have to make that comment. We sometimes get lost, quite willingly and with great joy, in the details, fantasy and fiction. But to run trains for the shear joy of it is to be commended as "pure."

My old, now dismantled, N scale line was mostly industrial save for a grain elevator. I've seen some HO refineries that were museum quality pieces.

Does anyone know how I might build a rerefinery (pipeworks and all) that will last outdoors? What could I use for scale pipes, distilation towers and and other rigging?
Being that my line is from TEXAS, I would like to reflect the oil industry. Long trains of oil tanker cars (ooohh...that Bachmann Texaco and some of those LGB and Aristo multidomed tank cars) pulled by steam locomotive.

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

Hi Captain Carrales
At the moment my line is functionless a 30' X10' loop with a couple of sidings
and two points for the current extension works.
The plan is for this to turn into an industrial line.
Mainly because I want a garden as well the function is to get fire wood to the gold mines in the area.
Because this is an Australian Busb Tramway it needs as part of that vast expances of garden with nothing but a single ine of track are required.
and because it is a bu***ramway it has to move passangers and freight as well as fire wood so has a conection with the government system one of these days will have to get around to going to the schoo; of mines to see if they have a drawing of a wooden head frame.
It means a lot of the stock will eventualy have to be scratch built and not to may large structures to clutter up the place one mine probably being the largest structure on the system and small cluster of minners cotages have concidered even having the ladies of doubtfull reputation but not so sure that is a good idea.
But must have a house of worship you cannot build a railway without one not to may towns or villiages don't have a house of worship
regards John

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Captain Carrales
At the moment my line is functionless a 30' X10' loop with a couple of sidings
and two points for the current extension works.
The plan is for this to turn into an industrial line.
Mainly because I want a garden as well the function is to get fire wood to the gold mines in the area.
Because this is an Australian Busb Tramway it needs as part of that vast expances of garden with nothing but a single ine of track are required.
and because it is a bu***ramway it has to move passangers and freight as well as fire wood so has a conection with the government system one of these days will have to get around to going to the schoo; of mines to see if they have a drawing of a wooden head frame.
It means a lot of the stock will eventualy have to be scratch built and not to may large structures to clutter up the place one mine probably being the largest structure on the system and small cluster of minners cotages have concidered even having the ladies of doubtfull reputation but not so sure that is a good idea.
But must have a house of worship you cannot build a railway without one not to may towns or villiages don't have a house of worship
regards John

John,

I think mining is a most easy industry, it is blend between Agriculture (which is basically getting resources from the earth) but with the trappings of Agriculture.

"Women of doubtful reputation?" Can they be purchased through "Woodland Scenics?" I guess that would be a service industry, eh? Very Curious indeed.

I planned to build a "misson church" of which I have held of until my construction skills are more imporved, but a small Protestant type church utilizes much of the construction methodology I have learned in building train stations. I must first consult with the Vatican to see if such a build is contrary to cannon law[:D]!

Capt Carrales

[Marty Cozad]

Well beings I am fortunate to have lots of room, i went rural also, those trains fling by when your driving on the hyway types. But later I did have to have structures, but low on detail cause most of my shots are seeing the train off in the distance rolling by.
I've thought about a town but buildings and lights aren't my thing. So the "feeling" of a whisple stop is what works for me.
When i see a RR with a large detailed town, my first thought is "how many hours does it take them to keep this clean and looking good.?"
BUT I am working on enlarging the grain elevator and wanting to make the trains look small. The WOOOW factor and its simple to build.

[Anonymous]

Hi Capt Carraless
Not so sure I would build a Mission Church If I could aford it I would probably go and buy the Piko adobie one there was one advertised in the latest garden rail.
But then a couple of hours messing about with sheets of clay could probably
produce a nice one.
regards John

[Anonymous]

Being a practising Agnostic i have gone for an Eastern religeous theme, going through temple complexes of both Thai and Japanese flavour. My new area 3 has 60 m long tracks and has a 10 m long climbing ramp which will be of concrete construction as will a 4 m long viaduct. Again we will rely heavily on decorative gravels and stones and a medieval castle, so I really can't say if it will be rural or urban just a big contradiction of situations as usual.

Regards

ian

[Anonymous]

Hi iandor
it's not a question of a persons riligious beliefs or lack of them.
It is that in any real town or villiage there is a house of worship of some kind
would love to see a picture of a Japanees pagoda in 'G' that should be quite a structure
One of my 16mm E friends took my comment to mean a Golden Buhda
so spent a few days doing a fantastic paint job on a cheap one for his Pigsty Hill Light Railway and set in north Borneo it fits hard to see in the jungle he managed to create in Bristol of all places though.
Its all a case of what looks right and fits.
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hi Capt Carrales
Lady's of doubtfull reputation are not made by woodland scenics suitable
figures for that made by a German manufacturer and have seen some in a shop that sells wargaming miniatures.
But esentialy any female figure that has been set up the right location
can sugest that without being tasteless offencive and leading to awkward questions from young children.
It is a scene that would need very carefull seting up which is why I am not so sure its a good idea..
Probably one idea best forgoten about even if it is a mining town.
regards John

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Being a practising Agnostic i have gone for an Eastern religeous theme, going through temple complexes of both Thai and Japanese flavour. My new area 3 has 60 m long tracks and has a 10 m long climbing ramp which will be of concrete construction as will a 4 m long viaduct. Again we will rely heavily on decorative gravels and stones and a medieval castle, so I really can't say if it will be rural or urban just a big contradiction of situations as usual.

Regards

ian

I'm affraid my religious trapping is undeniablely Roman Catholic, but I do have great respect for the balance that Eastern Religion uses as its main tenet. I would think, however, that anyone in G scale can appriciate the idea of a Creator who overlooks everything. After all, God does have the biggest trainset of all. [:D] Hummmm, I wonder if there is a religious facet to Large Scale railroading as well.

Well, enough of that...

Ian, as long as the people who make pilgrimges to your temples for enlightenment need transportation and food it make little difference if you have a medieval castle next to oriental shrines. It is the love of trains and their function that are the common link.

Capt Carrales

[vsmith]

Interesting topic.

My observation is quite different. Seems to me most GR's that have a theme I've seen were built around a mining theme, with sidings to mine heads and stamping mills. Maybe I just notice theses types more.

As for the Shady ladies question I dont have to worry about the kiddie factor on my layout, it exists purely as a creative outlet for me so i can get as baudy as i want with it. I have seen the german figures and already have a few ideas, whether I have space or not is another question.

As for the question of "religion" in model RRing, I'm staying away from that issue on my layout . When my layout was bigger I was going to put an adobe church inbetween the bordello and the saloon, complete with the priest clunking a drunk on the head with his processional sceptor but that got axed with the downsizing. I still may have too many buildings on it.

As for personal religion ?

Member in good standing, 24hr Drive Thru Church of Elvis, Las Vegas, NV [bow]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SandyR
There's a third way to look at it: a railfan's railroad, where you just sit and watch the train(s) go by. That's my approach.
SandyR

I agree. I'm just having one big loop. I don't care where those loads came from, or where they're going either. They're just on a train going past. I might build a coal mine loading tower (called 'bins'here), but only cause I want the challenge of doing it, not because I need it to make my railway historically or economically complete.

There are billions of miles of railway in the world that don't have stations or sidings. It's just main line going from one place to another, passing through scenery on the way. That's what I like to model and the best thing is you can run any type train on it and it looks OK.

On the subject of building made from pottery raised by Capt Carrales, there's a good example in Australia ( see photo 2) http://www.users.bigpond.com/huntergpmj/gregs/BuildingsGall.htm
Some one here in NZ was making people from them and they looked OK too.

Glen Anthony.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RockyCreekNZ

QUOTE: Originally posted by SandyR
There's a third way to look at it: a railfan's railroad, where you just sit and watch the train(s) go by. That's my approach.
SandyR

I agree. I'm just having one big loop. I don't care where those loads came from, or where they're going either. They're just on a train going past. I might build a coal mine loading tower (called 'bins'here), but only cause I want the challenge of doing it, not because I need it to make my railway historically or economically complete.

There are billions of miles of railway in the world that don't have stations or sidings. It's just main line going from one place to another, passing through scenery on the way. That's what I like to model and the best thing is you can run any type train on it and it looks OK.

On the subject of building made from pottery raised by Capt Carrales, there's a good example in Australia ( see photo 2) http://www.users.bigpond.com/huntergpmj/gregs/BuildingsGall.htm
Some one here in NZ was making people from them and they looked OK too.

Glen Anthony.

Greetings,

I must admit that I am really impressed by that structure made from the pottery. I'm getting an idea of what I can do with it, clay that is. Thanks for the link, it was great.

I guess my fixation on Large Scale is somewhat tained by my times in N scale. The smaller scales seem to focus on operations. I can respect your approach, I too like large stretches of track going through the countryside.

[grandpopswalt]

Ian,

I'm reminded of the story about the Marine drill sargent and the new recruit. The sargent asked the kid what religion he was and the recruit answered "agnostic". The sargent looked a little puzzeled but said for all to hear " you see, that's what's great about America, you can practice any religion you want to".

My plan is to mix rural with industrial. Small, dense, industrial areas receiving and generating freight and passenger traffic seperated by long stretches of rural (plants and flowers) right-of-way. I should then be able to operate prototypically or "just let 'em run".

Walt

[railman]

I'll be brief- in large scale the size of building cities cost a lot..ag is less labor intensive.

[Anonymous]

My idea is to model a modern day working railroad museum. I'll set up small display areas throughout my yard with period pieces. Then there will be an area in the center where I can let 'er run. With the museum theme I can mix old and new, rural and urban, industrial and agriculture - as long as there is a logical separation between each area.

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,
Mine is definately rural cos it runs through a garden. It hauls whatever I put on it, mainly beer, and it goes round and round - or will when the last section is in. The beauty of the hobby, it's whatever you want it to be. Even for agnostics[:-,]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Hi guys,
Mine is definately rural cos it runs through a garden. It hauls whatever I put on it, mainly beer, and it goes round and round - or will when the last section is in. The beauty of the hobby, it's whatever you want it to be. Even for agnostics[:-,]

See the rual (farming) makes the grain, trains take it to the citys where they produce your beer and BOOM you have beer. [:D]

[Anonymous]

Hi Bill,
This also true, I get mine from Asda (WalMart), I have to go in the car because I haven't enough track & it would probably get hijacked on the way back. Still, life is good.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Hi capt Carrales and Vic
This does happen in my town so would be a realistic set up for a model
at one end of the street have the ladies of doubtfull reputation complete with colourfull buildings and neon lights
In the middle of the street the police station or sheriffs office with the court house opposite then further up the same street the house of worship
dont forget to change the street name 1/2 way between the sherrifs office and the ladies.
regards John

[Anonymous]

I would have to say a bit of both.
My present layout takes place in a rural setting in a good sized town in Montana. You might want to say it is a urban setting, but the tallest building is the grain elevator next to the water tower. The best way to go is to have a bit of both AND have both raw materials and finished products pickk up and manufacturing plants on a layout, ie. picking up grain at one stop and delivering it to a food processing plant or brewery. Another example is picking up iron ore at one stop and delivering it to a steel mill. Or timber and delivering it to a lumber mill, etc. That would be a good goal to have when planning a good productive layout. My future Layout may incorperate a large town, perhaps Havre MT with more city building and a LARGE 4 track heavy desiel repair shop and maybe a large industrial complex such as a steel mill or a large lumber mill, etc. I think right now what I have for industrys is : a grain elevator, ballast facility, food processing plant(small), a couple freight houses, an oil depot, another oil depot in the future(have the siding, but need the building and tanks), a small dry goods storage, a farm live stock pick up, a frieght car shop(2 track) and a med. size passenger station(remember, people count to as a shipping commadity). I also have a coal tower which needs replenishing from now to then too [:p] Oh yeah, a co-op building for seed, tools and such too. I also have a siding for another plant in the branchline to fill. So there's something else. Not too bad for a layout that's only 14x 23 feet and a small yard to boot as well as a good sized town in the middle of it [;)][:)][^]