Page 85, Fall, 2020 issue, New Orleans photo

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Page 85, Fall, 2020 issue, New Orleans photo
Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 4, 2020 4:13 AM

Does your copy have  somewhere around 50 yellow widgets scattered across the photo to disfigure it?  Or is this impairment in only a fraction of the printed copies?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, October 4, 2020 3:48 PM

Those are flowers David.  I asked Lady Firestorm, my resident flower expert what kind, at first she thought they might be irises but since they're growing from some kind of shrubbery she's unfamiliar of what kind of flowers they might be.  Something native to that part of the country we suppose.

So there's nothing wrong with the picture. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 4, 2020 10:49 PM

Here are Jack May's photos of the same location.

Canal St. always had a roadway on both sides of the tracks in the neutral ground.

The altered photo has the right roadway replaced, and flowers do not float in mid-air.

V

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 6, 2020 8:45 AM

Again, there is plenty wrong with the printed picture.  You simply won't find that scene at the intersection of Canal in Galvez today. and it did not exist any time in the era of color film.  Actually, the St. Charles line has scenes somewhat closer to the subject of the photo display, and possibly Lady Firestorm's flowers can be found there.

I rode the system as it existed several times 1968-1970.  A road on both sides of the tracks has existed at least for a century.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 6, 2020 9:02 PM

What the photographer could have done to produce the effect desred, without any distorting or untruthful electronic-darkroom work, is to ask permission of one of the owners of one of the beautifully landscaped "Garden District" homes or hotels on St. Charles Street to photograph the streetcar line from near the entrance to the building, with a luxurious floral arrangement in the foreground, and the streetcar framed by trees or bushes.

The neutral ground on St. Charles isn't much different than that of Canal in the nefghborhood of Gervais, but there is a great difference in the landscapes provided by the properties alongside the street.    

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 8, 2020 9:07 AM

To give you an idea of the real floral beauty to be observed from the wibndows of a St. Charles line streetcar in the Garden District:

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:11 AM

I don't get Classic Trains, so I can't comment on the picture.

Since I'm from New Orleans, I'm interested in this topic.

First, if the flowers are on shrubs, it's possible they're Azaleas.  For a one or two week period in New Orleans, the bushes flower beautifully.  The rest of the year, they usually look overgrown and unkempt.

Second, today the St. Charles streetcars are green, while the Canal Street and the Riverfront streetcars are red.  I don't know what color the old Desire line cars were, but I would guess at one time, all New Orleans streetcars were green.

Also, Dave, when you mention "Gervais", it's a term I'm unfamiliar with.  I know of a Gervais Street, but it is a short lakefront street that does not intersect Canal (that I know of), and I don't know of an area called Gervais.

I may buy the issue of the magazine just to see this photo.

York1 John       

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 8, 2020 1:49 PM

Thanks.  At the time I rode the system, several times, the old system, all New Orleans cars were green.  At the time, there were two types, the 900s, which still run on St. Charles, and the 800s, slightly earlier in date iof construction, anfd identical to the 900s rxcept that the front-right door was controled by a styout lever  and mechanical links instead electric-pneumatic

Galvez not Gervais   Will go back and correct

The photo falsefied as printed is still valuable to me.  It shows an 800, of which the only extant ones are in trlley museums or static displays.  i'll fix the left half with the car complete, and discard the right half that has little relation to reality.

The magazine issue is more than wrth having for other stories, photos, and informatin.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 8, 2020 2:02 PM

Two Garden District Jack May photos not posted on the old thread of his New Orleans visit:

 

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 8, 2020 2:24 PM

daveklepper
Galvez not Gervais 

 

Ahhh!  That makes sense!  Galvez was down Canal Street from where we lived and where I worked.

Thanks for the info!

York1 John       

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 8, 2020 10:34 PM

Here is an example of the tiney "widgets" or Lady Firestorm's flowers scsttered all over the photograph, but mainly on the right side.  What I drew using Microsoft Paint is typical, but some are more complex, some with two "heads," some looking like just parts.  Are there flowers like this in New Orleans?  Where?  At Canal and Galvez?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:47 PM

I think looking at some of the potential plants in the New Orleans area should give us a sensible range of options in short order.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 8, 2020 11:50 PM

Not having seen the picture, could it be yellow jasmine?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0062/8532/8445/products/yellow-jasmine_400-v2-01_grande.jpg?v=1547690524

Or perhaps cassia (warning: large file!)

https://i.imgur.com/UMHDcIn.jpg

The structure of the plant that bears the blossoms (which might be a vine growing on or through a different plant) may be valuable to know.

Both azaleas and rhododendrons can flower with multiple heads, but these would be on bushes:

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/jparkers/1000/0001876.jpg

Double azaleas in particular might produce the effect Mr. Klepper is seeing at a distance.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 9, 2020 2:07 AM

Cassia

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 9, 2020 6:18 AM

The only possible physical explanaition for the photograph, without fasifying darkroom work follows:

There is in-fact a bush nearby wth Cassia flowers, hundred or more.

A strong wind arose and ripped nearly al the flowers from their stems and sent them dirctly into the line-of-sfght path between the photographer and the streetcar at the exact moment that he had planned for and did press the shutter-butten.

Nearby trees-foliage cast a shadow pattern on the roadway, disguising it from being a roadway

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 10, 2020 1:51 PM
The original tree which I converted to windblown flowers for electronic darkroom superposition is at:
But combining photos to tell a story certainly is OK and apologies to Kalmbach, the Magazine staff, and T. H. Desnoyers of NOPSI----
If indeed there is a Cassis tree near Canal and Galvez.
And NOPSI's electronic=darkeoom work os better than mine.
 
And Tree not Bush.
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Posted by Backshop on Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:09 PM

I finally decided to look at my copy, since streetcars aren't my thang.  Those are yellow flowers, on longer stems that rise above the leaves of the bushes.  I'm not familiar with NOLA, so maybe, just maybe, the slide was mismarked as to location.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:31 PM

But the sign on the streetcar does say Canal, and there was and is a roadway on both sides of the "neutral ground" and its tracks for the length of Canal (with the downtown portion paved).

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM

Once again, I don't have access to the picture.

Could this picture be at the end of the streetcar route where the cars turn onto City Park Ave and then towards the lake on Canal Blvd?  There is a small section where the route makes a UTurn to head back toward the river.  That is the only place where there would be grass and plantings on one side of the tracks (that I can remember).

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 10, 2020 10:05 PM

That is a current arial photo of the recent short extension of the revised Canal line. If memory is correct, the post WWII line and the first revival simply stub-ended with a double (sizzors) crossover short of City Park Avenue.

The extension was needed to allow streetcar-bus transfers without one or two street crossings.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:42 AM

Before sometime before WWII half the Canal cars were Canal-West End and turned left not right and went to the banks of the Canal and turned right there.

I have Googled a lot and still not come up with any flower resembling the "Widget" except Cassia. and Cassia is on trees, not bushes.  Can York1 find some flowers like I drew somewhere along the St Charles and Canal lines?  Can somene find a flower like Cassia but on bushes?  With almost invisible thin and tall red stems?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:57 AM

In the published picture, there are several people in white shirts near the front windows.  Cars assigned to Canal did make trips to and from the overhaul and maintenance shops at the end of the St. Charles line.  So possibly this is a photo of a just-repaired or overhauled car inbound in the morning on St. Charles, although signed Canal?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:00 AM

Possibly, this is the flower, and the photo has just-about-to-open buds?

What is the name?

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:10 AM

The definition of minutiae.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:39 PM

With the name we might be able to confirm the bud's appearance.

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:09 PM

Backshop
The definition of minutiae.

 

It may be.  He's trying to find out if the photo was doctored.  I've ridden every inch of the New Orleans streetcar system many times, and I don't know of any place that fits his description of the photo.

The streetcars all use the neutral grounds, with roads on both sides of the tracks, or the tracks run in the streets themselves.  I can't recall any track with a road on just one side.

York1 John       

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:50 PM

The photo doesn't appear to be doctored.  The tracks are on the "island" between two roads.  The photo seems to have been taken with a wide angle lens so distances are distorted slightly.  The road on the right side is at the very edge of the frame. There are flowering bushes right by the curb on both sides.  Then comes two tracks, separated by a pole line.

If it helps to identify the location, there are signs for Time Finance Company and John ____ Real Estate across the street. The right-of-way appears to be about 60ft wide. 

Remember, this started out with him accusing Kalmbach of doctoring the photo or adding "yellow things" to it.  I respectfully suggest that someone make an appointment with their optometrist.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:43 PM

You are correct that at 88+ my eyesight is not 100%, and I simply did not see the very thin lines that are the stems of what must be buds almost ready to open into flowers.  And I did apologize already for the initial accusation.

Thanks for pointing out the way York1 and any in New Oleans can locate the photgraph. I hope this mystery can be resolved soon.

You pointed out the width of the neutral ground, which is greater than that on Canal.  So my hypothesis of why the car is signed Canal, but is running on St. Charles, may be correct.  A fine photograph.  Glad it was published.   Hope there can be a correction to the caption, published.   Thanks for the help.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 12, 2020 12:37 AM

I've had another thought, spurred by both Lady Firestorm and Backstop, but they are budding flowers, not blooming flowers.

After the original Canal streetcar line was converted to bus, was the neutral ground narrowed and the roadway on each side widened, with the destruction of the bushes?   Then possibly the caption is correct?

York1 can question older friends.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:54 AM

Clearly buds, or opening flowers.

Perhaps butterfly bush fits the bill better?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2drxd89oS0KKKLzluSvX2efF6L0sGKaM5J6hZL-QjBg&s

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