Page 85, Fall, 2020 issue, New Orleans photo

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 5:30 AM

daveklepper
Overmod, what exactly is the name of the flowers or buds?   Do you know?

I do not.  From what I know, I suspect either Cassia alata (the 'candelabra plant') or Cassia corymbosa -- both of these start sending up flower heads about September.

I don't think it would be very hard for a good deep-Southern nurseryman to identify the plant from the original picture from the 'Urbs in horto' pages.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 4:35 AM

Overmod, what exactly is the name of the fowers or buds?   Do tyou know?

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Posted by York1 on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 10:44 AM

Thanks, Dave and Overmod.

This topic has been fun for me.  I loved the New Orleans streetcars.  I even attended several private parties when the streetcars could be "rented" for private use.

At one time, they were used mainly for commuting.  Today, I believe the major use is tourism, although I know some use the Canal cars for getting to work.

The principal of the school where I taught hit a Canal streetcar with his car right in front of the school as he crossed the neutral ground.

I've been looking for some pictures of the old Canal cars traveling through the rare snow.  I'm not sure where anything is anymore.

Unfortunately, by the time I came along, the old Desire streetcar line had been removed.  Bourbon Street and Royal Street were a little too narrow for streetcars, buses, and cars at the same time.  I think the city's tourism directors would love to have the Desire line back.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 7:50 AM

Again, I apologize for the mistake.  It did provide an opportinity to post some worthwhile pictures, though..

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 5:56 AM

York1
Sorry for the long post that no longer matters.

It most certainly DOES matter.  Among other things it probably clears up why the scene is different today than in 1961, which was an unmentioned issue that only becomes plain with your post.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:14 AM

Thanks to both of you.  York1, your post is valuable in establishing that the traffic lanes of Canal in the area of Galvez were widened at the expense of the neutral ground and with the removal of the bushes.  So I was just plain wrong because of impaired eyesght and lack of knowledge of Canal Street's alteration.

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Posted by York1 on Monday, October 12, 2020 11:27 AM

Well, since I posted a couple of minutes ago, I now see that Overmod has posted the exact location.

Sorry for the long post that no longer matters.

"Nevermind."

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Posted by York1 on Monday, October 12, 2020 11:18 AM

Again, I don't have access to the picture, so what I am saying is only guesswork.

Dave, the widening of Canal Street did take place, but I'm not sure when.  I only know of the time I worked on Canal Street, and lived a block off Canal Boulevard.  Canal St. today is three driving lanes and a parking lane on each side of the neutral ground.

You are correct about the Canal St - City Park Ave - Canal Blvd extension.  It was just completed last year.  Before, the streetcar lines ended at City Park Ave.  It was a mess at that intersection, with lots of car traffic headed towards the lake from downtown, the streetcar passengers crossing the street to transfer to the bus system, etc.

Since I no longer live there, I cannot relate any signs to any location.

Another possibility is that the streetcar barn is located on Willow St. off of Carrollton Ave.  The St. Charles line turns onto Carrollton and goes for quite a distance.  However, Carrollton and St. Charles both are quite a bit narrower than Canal St.  

I wish I could say more, but my memory is not helping.  While I lived and worked there, I wish I had taken more pictures of things like this, rather than just pictures of my kids growing up.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 12, 2020 11:02 AM

Hell, I have been sent the picture, and it seems pretty clear there what was going on at the time.  Caption says Canal at Galvez, October 1961.  It is credited as a T.H. Desnoyers picture from the Krambles-Peterson Archive.  I'd post it here but it was an e-mail attachment, not an URL, and I'm not going to Web-host an image that isn't mine.

Note there is the exact same kind of bush across the way, with its structure more visible.  Road on 'right' side is clearly visible (to me ... but I knew where to look) behind bush, and very obvious they are flower heads, on stems, just like across the way.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 12, 2020 10:59 AM

.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:45 AM

But they do not show the variations.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:41 AM

The URL is not sharp enough to show long thin red stems, but they may be there.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, October 12, 2020 5:54 AM

Clearly buds, or opening flowers.

Perhaps butterfly bush fits the bill better?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2drxd89oS0KKKLzluSvX2efF6L0sGKaM5J6hZL-QjBg&s

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 12, 2020 12:37 AM

I've had another thought, spurred by both Lady Firestorm and Backstop, but they are budding flowers, not blooming flowers.

After the original Canal streetcar line was converted to bus, was the neutral ground narrowed and the roadway on each side widened, with the destruction of the bushes?   Then possibly the caption is correct?

York1 can question older friends.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:43 PM

You are correct that at 88+ my eyesight is not 100%, and I simply did not see the very thin lines that are the stems of what must be buds almost ready to open into flowers.  And I did apologize already for the initial accusation.

Thanks for pointing out the way York1 and any in New Oleans can locate the photgraph. I hope this mystery can be resolved soon.

You pointed out the width of the neutral ground, which is greater than that on Canal.  So my hypothesis of why the car is signed Canal, but is running on St. Charles, may be correct.  A fine photograph.  Glad it was published.   Hope there can be a correction to the caption, published.   Thanks for the help.

 

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:50 PM

The photo doesn't appear to be doctored.  The tracks are on the "island" between two roads.  The photo seems to have been taken with a wide angle lens so distances are distorted slightly.  The road on the right side is at the very edge of the frame. There are flowering bushes right by the curb on both sides.  Then comes two tracks, separated by a pole line.

If it helps to identify the location, there are signs for Time Finance Company and John ____ Real Estate across the street. The right-of-way appears to be about 60ft wide. 

Remember, this started out with him accusing Kalmbach of doctoring the photo or adding "yellow things" to it.  I respectfully suggest that someone make an appointment with their optometrist.

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:09 PM

Backshop
The definition of minutiae.

 

It may be.  He's trying to find out if the photo was doctored.  I've ridden every inch of the New Orleans streetcar system many times, and I don't know of any place that fits his description of the photo.

The streetcars all use the neutral grounds, with roads on both sides of the tracks, or the tracks run in the streets themselves.  I can't recall any track with a road on just one side.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:39 PM

With the name we might be able to confirm the bud's appearance.

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:10 AM

The definition of minutiae.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 10:00 AM

Possibly, this is the flower, and the photo has just-about-to-open buds?

What is the name?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:57 AM

In the published picture, there are several people in white shirts near the front windows.  Cars assigned to Canal did make trips to and from the overhaul and maintenance shops at the end of the St. Charles line.  So possibly this is a photo of a just-repaired or overhauled car inbound in the morning on St. Charles, although signed Canal?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:42 AM

Before sometime before WWII half the Canal cars were Canal-West End and turned left not right and went to the banks of the Canal and turned right there.

I have Googled a lot and still not come up with any flower resembling the "Widget" except Cassia. and Cassia is on trees, not bushes.  Can York1 find some flowers like I drew somewhere along the St Charles and Canal lines?  Can somene find a flower like Cassia but on bushes?  With almost invisible thin and tall red stems?

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 10, 2020 10:05 PM

That is a current arial photo of the recent short extension of the revised Canal line. If memory is correct, the post WWII line and the first revival simply stub-ended with a double (sizzors) crossover short of City Park Avenue.

The extension was needed to allow streetcar-bus transfers without one or two street crossings.

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Posted by York1 on Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:38 PM

Once again, I don't have access to the picture.

Could this picture be at the end of the streetcar route where the cars turn onto City Park Ave and then towards the lake on Canal Blvd?  There is a small section where the route makes a UTurn to head back toward the river.  That is the only place where there would be grass and plantings on one side of the tracks (that I can remember).

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:31 PM

But the sign on the streetcar does say Canal, and there was and is a roadway on both sides of the "neutral ground" and its tracks for the length of Canal (with the downtown portion paved).

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Posted by Backshop on Saturday, October 10, 2020 2:09 PM

I finally decided to look at my copy, since streetcars aren't my thang.  Those are yellow flowers, on longer stems that rise above the leaves of the bushes.  I'm not familiar with NOLA, so maybe, just maybe, the slide was mismarked as to location.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 10, 2020 1:51 PM
The original tree which I converted to windblown flowers for electronic darkroom superposition is at:
But combining photos to tell a story certainly is OK and apologies to Kalmbach, the Magazine staff, and T. H. Desnoyers of NOPSI----
If indeed there is a Cassis tree near Canal and Galvez.
And NOPSI's electronic=darkeoom work os better than mine.
 
And Tree not Bush.
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 9, 2020 6:18 AM

The only possible physical explanaition for the photograph, without fasifying darkroom work follows:

There is in-fact a bush nearby wth Cassia flowers, hundred or more.

A strong wind arose and ripped nearly al the flowers from their stems and sent them dirctly into the line-of-sfght path between the photographer and the streetcar at the exact moment that he had planned for and did press the shutter-butten.

Nearby trees-foliage cast a shadow pattern on the roadway, disguising it from being a roadway

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 9, 2020 2:07 AM

Cassia

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