Did the two SP Dallas - Houston trains carry a parlor or where they all coach? They were streamlined, initially with streamlined steam, I think streamlined Pacifics and not 4-8-4's One was the Hustler, and I forget the name of the other. Only two consists were required, since a round trip each day was possible. Sunbeam?
Was the Zepherette name of the Sacramento - Ogden RDC that the WP operated an official name?
We will count RDC runs as long as they were named. I don't think McKeen cars will qualify.
The Mainstreeter operated with a slumbercoach up until the end so doesn't count. The Red River, City of Las Vegas, El Capitan are good.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfan My question is name the Coach only streamliners that operated west of the Mississippi? This does not include trains that operated with parlor cars or sleepers. The list is not very long. Al - in - Stockton
My question is name the Coach only streamliners that operated west of the Mississippi? This does not include trains that operated with parlor cars or sleepers. The list is not very long.
Red River - GN - St. Paul-Grand Forks
City of Las Vegas - UP - Los Angeles-Las Vegas
passengerfan I should probably disqualify myself answering questions about streamlined coaches as I am writing a book on them at the present time and hope to have it finished soon it is now 448 pages without pictures so might have to be done in volumes. It is more technical and informational then similar books have been in the past. I had just completed the information on the Challenger trains so the information was handy. My question is name the Coach only streamliners that operated west of the Mississippi? This does not include trains that operated with parlor cars or sleepers. The list is not very long. Al - in - Stockton
I should probably disqualify myself answering questions about streamlined coaches as I am writing a book on them at the present time and hope to have it finished soon it is now 448 pages without pictures so might have to be done in volumes. It is more technical and informational then similar books have been in the past. I had just completed the information on the Challenger trains so the information was handy.
Well, carpe the diem, I guess. UP's Challenger, obviously, where it was advertised a passenger could "eat for a dollar a day" (in the Thirties).
And of course, ATSF's El Capitan. I do not believe it was commonly hitched onto the Super Chief until after the end of our historical period of interest, which now extends to January 1960; and even after the trains started running combined, it (they) would break back into two separate trains in high season. But certainly El Cap (I have been asked not to call it "THE El Cap") was its own being when it incorporated the newer technology of hi-rise cars beginning in, I think, 1956.
This next one is probably wrong, but I'll give it a shot: The Mainstreeter? - a.s.
Start with the City of Salinas? (UP) The Bullet cars of the Bamberger interurban, StLC - Ogden Do Budd RDC-car operations count? How about McKeen motor cars?
passengerfanThe only trains I know of that carried 56 seat coaches with a Nurses room that were built new were the CHALLENGERS the cars were built by Pullman Standard. The 6160 - 6166 were owned by the C&NW and the 5200 -5211 were UP owned they operated in both the San Francisco Challenger between Chicago and Oakland and the Challenger between Chicago and Los Angeles.
Al's turn - again.
Great Western, thanks for the posts. Interesting information; however, the question was not about coaches that were 56 feet long but rather coaches that had 56 seats in them. I'll have to go read that article that you referred to .
The article I refer to mentions the existing heavyweight cars and says that B&O 'cobbled together' two five car consists, which as far as I can see, included the two 56ft. cars.
But I accept, there may be others I know not of.
Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad
https://www.buckfast.org.uk/
If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)
The only trains I know of that carried 56 seat coaches with a Nurses room that were built new were the CHALLENGERS the cars were built by Pullman Standard. The 6160 - 6166 were owned by the C&NW and the 5200 -5211 were UP owned they operated in both the San Francisco Challenger between Chicago and Oakland and the Challenger between Chicago and Los Angeles.
Builder of the Cincinnatian cars was B&O shops and they were actually built from heavyweights and streamlined.
I was reading the Dream Trains 2 magazine last evening and it seems that the article about the 'Cincinnatian' is what this post is about.
The railroad was the Baltimore and Ohio -(before its mergers) - and I have just reached the part where Amtrak stepped in. The article mentions these 56ft'ers and gives then the numbers and names of 3572 Oakley and 3573 Norwood. I can't recall the builder however.
Which Trains carried 56-seat coaches (chair cars) that from the original manufacturer (not a rebuild) had a nurse's room in them? What company built the cars?
Treasure Island Special it is. So I guess the next question is yours.
passengerfan The Forty Niner is correct but the City of San Francisco is not. So we still have one to go.
In an book, Southern Pacific Passenger Trains, I found, "[speaking of the Forty-Niner]...streamlined all-Pullmand tran that also operated about ever six days. On May 22, 1940, the Treasure Island Special debuted as a summer schedule extra-fare service between Chicago and the Bay Area. According to the April 20, 1940 Railway Age, it carried a baggage car, six lighweight Pullman sleepers, a dining car, and a loung observiation, Its livery was a light grey ...."
So since there are no coaches listed in the consist, I deduce that it is an all-Pullman train.
daveklepper OK. The original streamlined Prospector, the overnight D&RGW train between Denver and Salt Lake City, was I believe an articulated self-propelled diesel electric railcar. Like other streamlined compact semi-doodlebugs of the era. Possibly two such for daily service, otherwise running thrice weekly. But if I remember what made it unique is that it was all-Pullman, with nothing but sections and possibly one or two private rooms instead of coach seats. And a compact meal-serving section. Is my memory correct? I do remember that it often did arrive at one or the other terminal behind a steam locomotive because of a power plant or tranmsission problem.. Right after WWII started it was replaced by a conventional heavywieght coach and Pullman steam-hauled train because of increased traffic demands, then this was replaced by lightweight equipment, much from the C&O Chessie order, after deisel power had been applied.
OK. The original streamlined Prospector, the overnight D&RGW train between Denver and Salt Lake City, was I believe an articulated self-propelled diesel electric railcar. Like other streamlined compact semi-doodlebugs of the era. Possibly two such for daily service, otherwise running thrice weekly. But if I remember what made it unique is that it was all-Pullman, with nothing but sections and possibly one or two private rooms instead of coach seats. And a compact meal-serving section. Is my memory correct? I do remember that it often did arrive at one or the other terminal behind a steam locomotive because of a power plant or tranmsission problem.. Right after WWII started it was replaced by a conventional heavywieght coach and Pullman steam-hauled train because of increased traffic demands, then this was replaced by lightweight equipment, much from the C&O Chessie order, after deisel power had been applied.
Johnny I did consider the Forty Niner because my criteria was streamlined and the heavyweight cars were streamlined for this service. The UP power for this train was also streamlined steam a Pacific between Omaha and Cheyenne and a Mountain from Cheyenne to Ogden. The other train I am thinking about was for all intents and purposes streamlined except for the Dining and Baggage Dormitory car.
passengerfan Texas Zepher passengerfanThe three you mentioned Texas Zephyr were all heavyweights prior to WW II.Yup that WWII thing keeps biting me, the Cascade was all Pullman AND streamlined August 13th 1950. It lost its all Pullman status in October (the 11th to be exact) of that same year when two coaches were added to the consist. Ok, I have an unreliable source that says the UP Forty-Niner was all Pullman and streamlined. That was between Chicago and San Francisco. A different reference refers to "Daily operation of the all-coach and the all-Pullman City trains between Chicago and Los Angeles-San Francisco-Portland,..." So I am going to guess the City of San Francisco was at one time all-Pullman (even though the M-10002 had a coach section in the round end observation car). The Forty Niner is correct but the City of San Francisco is not. So we still have one to go. Al - in - Stockton
Texas Zepher passengerfanThe three you mentioned Texas Zephyr were all heavyweights prior to WW II.Yup that WWII thing keeps biting me, the Cascade was all Pullman AND streamlined August 13th 1950. It lost its all Pullman status in October (the 11th to be exact) of that same year when two coaches were added to the consist. Ok, I have an unreliable source that says the UP Forty-Niner was all Pullman and streamlined. That was between Chicago and San Francisco. A different reference refers to "Daily operation of the all-coach and the all-Pullman City trains between Chicago and Los Angeles-San Francisco-Portland,..." So I am going to guess the City of San Francisco was at one time all-Pullman (even though the M-10002 had a coach section in the round end observation car).
passengerfanThe three you mentioned Texas Zephyr were all heavyweights prior to WW II.
Ok, I have an unreliable source that says the UP Forty-Niner was all Pullman and streamlined. That was between Chicago and San Francisco. A different reference refers to "Daily operation of the all-coach and the all-Pullman City trains between Chicago and Los Angeles-San Francisco-Portland,..." So I am going to guess the City of San Francisco was at one time all-Pullman (even though the M-10002 had a coach section in the round end observation car).
I could not find or think of any of any other pre-war streamlined all sleeper trains besides those already named, and knowing of the heavyweight cars on the the two Chicago-Oakland trains, I did not think of them until you named the Forty Niner.
It is really interesting to see how the railroads moved to the concept of lighter weight and streamlined equipment in their search to increase passenger patronage.
Johnny
I guess everyone is waiting for a hint/ The two remaining all pullman streamlined trains that operated west of the Mississippi River prior to WW II both operated between the same city pairs.
ZephyrOverland The RI/SP Arizona Limited.
The RI/SP Arizona Limited.
The three you mentioned Texas Zephyr were all heavyweights prior to WW II.
SPs Cascade was all Pullman in 1937.
SP Sunset Limited was when it was first started, but I do not know if that carried forward into the streamline era or not.
UP Pacific Limited and Portland Rose - I know coaches were included after 1947 when they were combined, but I don't know if they were streamlined before this happened.
CSSHEGEWISCH I'll lead off with these trains: Chief, Super Chief, Lark.
I'll lead off with these trains: Chief, Super Chief, Lark.
passengerfanName the all Pullman trains west of the Mississippi River prior to WW II?
Of the latter there is the Santa Fe original California Limited, Deluxe, Chief, and the Super Chief. All of the others I can think of (Oriental Limited, Hiawatha, Empire Builder, CZ, NCL, and even the City of San Fransisco) had coaches in them.
Of the former I believe the Oriental Limited was all Pullman built. At least one (possibly 2) of the Chiefs was all Pullman - if you don't count the transfer through cars from Pennsy & NYC. The 1938 Super Chief was all Pullman equipment with subsequent sleepers built by PC&M. Later Super Chiefs used some Budd equipment(1951). The 1892 California Limited was 100% Pullman built.
Name the all Pullman trains west of the Mississippi River prior to WW II?
Al in Stockton
Bingo!
Give that man a cigar.
The all-Pullman Panama Limited and the all-coach Magnolia Star (you gotta love that name!) were one and the same train. Behind the diner, the train was the former and ahead of it, the latter. The IC didn't want to sully the Panama with coaches, so it created the Star to, at least nominally, handle the coach traffic.
They may not have wanted to sully the Panama with coaches, but I know a fellow who sullied it with a carload of cotton from Memphis to New Orleans. Imagine - turning the Panama Limited into a mixed train! He got a phone call from Wayne Johnston's office the following day.
Over to you, Al, for the next question.
Bob
AWP290 No. This train (or trains) was/were operated by only one railroad. Let me clarify. There were two trains advertised, two names, but only one consist, and one schedule. That should virtually give it away. Bob
No.
This train (or trains) was/were operated by only one railroad.
Let me clarify. There were two trains advertised, two names, but only one consist, and one schedule.
That should virtually give it away.
AWP290 If I gave you the end points, you'd know the trains right away. I'll give you this hint - they were not transcontinental trains. Bob
If I gave you the end points, you'd know the trains right away.
I'll give you this hint - they were not transcontinental trains.
Is it by any chance the combined Zephyr - Rocket, St. Louis to Minneapolis??
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