Denver Terminal Railway, Denver & Salt Lake, D&RGW. As to the fourth road I'll guess it was the Colorado & Southern.
Mark
The westbound California Zephyr was taken over from the CB&Q by the D&RGW at Denver Union Station. It ran on trackage of four different railroads before reaching the Moffat Tunnel. Name them. What was the name of the junction where the Zephyr got to home rails.
Close enough, 1013 shows the latest build date of 11/1930 so I'll accept Texas Zephyr as the winner. As an aside, 1005-1006 (Mike & Ike) were originally built for Cuba and were appreciably lighter than the other steeplecabs. They were sold in 1941 when South Shore picked up the former IC steeplecabs.
Texas Zephyr, your question.
CSSHEGEWISCHTexas Zepher The 14 GE Steeple cabs, #1001-#1014.You're on the mark, but they weren't all GE's and they weren't one order.
Texas Zepher The 14 GE Steeple cabs, #1001-#1014.
The 14 GE Steeple cabs, #1001-#1014.
You're on the mark, but they weren't all GE's and they weren't one order.
The SW8 was second-hand from Colorado & Wyoming. South Shore didn't have any dual-powers, but daveklepper has the right timeframe.
CSSHEGEWISCHWhat locomotive was the last one to be ordered and delivered new to South Shore prior to the GP38-2's?
In its electric freight days, I wonder if the CSS&SB had any dual-power trolley and battery locomotives similar to the North Shore's, except of course of 1500V DC instead of 600V and pans instead of poles. If they, they were probably steeple cabs, probably built by GE, probably built around 1929. Just a guess.
Not quite, remember that the 20 Little Joes were ordered by the Russian State Railways.
Would it be the electric "Little Joes". IIRC the CSS&SB received four of them with the remainder of the order going to the Milw Road.
Boston, Cleveland and Chicago all operated rapid transit equipment on which they paid royalties to the Transit Research Corp., which makes them PCC's despite their appearance.
And now for the question: In 1980, South Shore ordered and took delivery on 10 GP38-2's which dieselized their freight service. What locomotive was the last one to be ordered and delivered new to South Shore prior to the GP38-2's?
Apparently, nobody can do better than Paul, so he gets to ask the next question. But, fpr the record. Three cities with two operators of PCC;s: LA (right), Cleveland (right), and
ST. LOUIS! (missed that one).
Los Angeles had Pacific Electric double-end mu standard gauge PCC's and Los Angelels Railways wide but narrow gauge single-end PCC's. The PE PCC's operated on the Glendale Burbank line, which ran out of subway terminal and did not share any right-of-way with LAR. Howere, PE and LAR did share some dual gauge street trackage, with common wire, and it would have been possible to arrange a fan trip to have one type of PCC behind the other.
Shaker Heights and Cleveland Transit both had single-end PCC's. Shaker's were mu, both new and second hand from Twin Cities, which requried modification for mu. At one time there were track connections between the two systems, but not at the time they ran PCC''s, although for a while there was a double track crossing without connecting curves.
St, Louis had regular single-end PCC's for its transit system, forget the name of the company (St. Louis Public Service?), but it was already owned by National City Lines by the time I rode its remaining four PCC lines. Forgotten is the fact that Illinois Terminal also had ten mu double-end end-door-only PCC cars, used in local St, Louis -Granit City service, the very last IT passneger operation. Track connection between the two systems would have been via the St. Louis Car Company factory and non-electrified steam railroad tracks and it would have been just about impossible to arrange a fan trip for the two types of cars together.
MU PCC streetcars were operated by Boston, which still runs them but not mu in regular service (probably will be mu in the future as ridership continues to rise, and that is the reason they have kept double the number of cars required for the rush hour service). Did run three-car trains regularly. Now air-conditioned and thoroughly rebuilt.
Shaker in trains up to four cars. IT with occasional two-car trains. Pacific Electric up to three cars in a train.
And Toronto, which ordered some mu PCC;s new and converted ex-Cleveland cars to mu for the heavy Bloor-Danforth line in two-car trains until replaced by a subway. Later, two car trains were used on Queen Street until the articulated LRV's were put into service. Still has two non-mu PCC;s in heritage service. The Cleveland PCC;s had been ordered with all mu equipment except the actual couplers, because for a while the east-west Rapid was planned to be light rail like Shaker, that shares tracks from E-55 to the Public Terminal.
Red Arrow never ran PCC cars. Their postwar 1949 St. Louis-built double-end lightweights did have double-end end-door PCC bodies, practcialy identacle to cars built for MUNI (SF) and for another operator that sometimes people forget operated PCC cars since it was far better known for other distinctive prewar and postwar equipment. But the Red Arrow cars were not PCC's. They had outside frame drop equalizer MCB-style trucks, cam controls lacking automatic acceleration, and never had resilient wheels. The only PCC features they had were the body and (I think, possibly), the magnetic track brakes. No royalties were paid Transit Research for them, and this is the deciding factor. That MUNI and Market St. Ry. Assn, (I'm a member) chose to honor them as PCC's by dressing up a genuine SF double-end PCC in Red Arrow paint does not change the truth of the matter.
I did not consider Chicago in my list of five mu operators because only the PCC rapid transit rebuilds were mu, the Green Hornets and prewar PCC's never were equipped for mu. Counting Chicago, there were six mu car operators and one has survived, although the mu capability does not seem to be used in regular service, but it is maintained from what I understand. Hint: One former mu (one line only) operator regularly runs PCC's in off-peak heritage service on one line mixed with much newer LRV;s, but their few remaining PCC's are not mu, nor were the majority of their once gigantic PCC fleet. Railfans sometimes charter one of their few PCC's for fantrips..
So anyone who can add to the two lists with correct answers will win. If not, you've got it.
I'll start with these offers:
Two operators: Cleveland (Cleveland Ry., Shaker Heights Rapid Transit); Los Angeles (Los Angeles Ry., Pacific Electric); Philadelphia (PTC, Red Arrow).
MU operators: Los Angeles, Cleveland, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago (the L).
Name the three North American cities that had two operators of PCC cars. |f you can, explain the differences between the cars of the two properties in each case (optional). In one of these cities and only one, a fan trip could be arranged to pose one property's PCC behind the other's, although I doubt this was ever done. In which city would that have been logical and possible?
And (required) name the five North American cities that operated mu PCC cars, PCC cars in mu trains of two and/or three cars (as well as single cars). Optionally, name a sixth operator that sometimes is thought of running mu PCC cars, and tell why it should NOT be included, even though a certain heritage operation has a pretence.
daveklepper I think it was provided for the CMStP&P, because part of the Northside el and the route through Evanston was a takeover of a Milwaukee branch, and the freight customers still required service, which was then logically provided by the Chicago El, the Chicago Rapid Transit. I think this service continued into CTA days and may have outlived the North Shore. Before the el used the line, there was at one time passenger service on it if memory is correct. I recall the westernmost track haviing overhead wire south from Howard Street for these freight trains.
I think it was provided for the CMStP&P, because part of the Northside el and the route through Evanston was a takeover of a Milwaukee branch, and the freight customers still required service, which was then logically provided by the Chicago El, the Chicago Rapid Transit. I think this service continued into CTA days and may have outlived the North Shore. Before the el used the line, there was at one time passenger service on it if memory is correct. I recall the westernmost track haviing overhead wire south from Howard Street for these freight trains.
We have a winner, daveklepper is correct. Northwestern Rapid Transit was building the North Side L and the St. Paul saw this as a way of no longer having to provide suburban on this line so it agreed to lease the line (at surface level) from north of Buena Ave. to Northwestern Rapid Transit, which was later absorbed into CRT/CTA. The line was later raised on an embankment by CRT. Freight service on the line was always minimal, serving a handful of coal yards and lumber yards. It finally dried up completely in the mid-1970's.
daveklepper, your question.
I am interested in the answer to this one. Wasn't it to compete with or compliment the Chicago Underground Railroad on LCL deliveries?.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
New question: The freight operation once operated by Chicago Rapid Transit/CTA on its North Side Main Line is pretty well known. Which Class 1 carrier did CRT/CTA provide this service for and why?
New York, New Haven and Conn. R.R.
Oh yes, the LIRR Cannonball was official and remains so unofficially. Not named in today's timetables the Friday only 3:58PM eastbound is still referred to by fans and patrons as the Cannonball. Back in its day, there were sections, too! And while traditionally leaving from Long Island City Terminal (and traversing the Lower Montauk) there was one time when electric locomotives would haul it out of NYPenn to change at Jamaica for steam or diesel (not sure of the year or years). The LIRR did use one word title rather than Cannon Ball.
Add the following I just found on the LIRR website under link to their newsletter (and do click on the link as it outlines the extra services and comforts offered):
Hamptons ServiceService to the Hamptons is about to get underway ... highlighted by our world-famous getaway, The Cannonball. Pick up one of our Montauk Branch timetables at the LIRR’s terminals, or go to Hamptons Service page.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=52990
CSSHEGEWISCH The LIRR "Cannon Ball" ran between Long Island City and Montauk on Fridays only, and may have been an all-parlor car consist. The other would be the N&W "Wabash Cannon Ball" between Detroit and St. Louis, which ran until April 30, 1971 and had no first-class accomodations at the end. It may have had a parlor car at earlier dates.
The LIRR "Cannon Ball" ran between Long Island City and Montauk on Fridays only, and may have been an all-parlor car consist.
The other would be the N&W "Wabash Cannon Ball" between Detroit and St. Louis, which ran until April 30, 1971 and had no first-class accomodations at the end. It may have had a parlor car at earlier dates.
I was not aware of the LIRR having a train called the Cannon Ball. Was this an official name appearing in the timetable or a nickname given to the train?
The Det-StL Wabash Cannon Ball was one of the two that I had in mind. Throughout the 1950's it carried a brass railed open platform parlor/observation car complete with one drawing room. IIRC the car was owned and operated by the Pullman Co.
In a later reply Mike correctly identified the other train I had in mind, N&W's Cannon Ball, No's. 21 & 22 running between Norfolk and Petersburg. It carried a 10-6 New York - Norfolk sleeper and ran between Petersberg and Richmond as ACL No's. 20 & 29. The train is shown as the Cannon Ball only in N&W timetables. No's, 20 & 29 are un-named trains in the ACL timetables.
As to the winner, It's almost a toss up but I think we should award it to Paul who in addition to getting the Wabash part correct also identified a third Cannon Ball, that of the LIRR.
Yes. In fact in 1978 or 79 the Tri State Chapt. NRHS did a fan trip on the Sat. AM train with the Parlor Cars including the then LIRR owned former DL&W Phoebe Snow Tavern Lounges quite reconfigured (as I recall). Train was regular Sat. morning train, not the Cannonball but had the parlors, and we left from NYP changing at Jamaica.
The May 1968 issue of TRAINS had an article titled "Parlor Car East" which covered LIRR's parlor car service and featured the "Cannon Ball". The parlor cars at that time were heavyweights which previously served as Pullman Parlor Cars on PRR.
Just looking at the LIRR online page and schedules...Friday's only there is a 3:58PM departure from Hunterspoint Ave to Montauk with limited stops with a 2 hr 50 minute point to point running time, there is a later train at 2 hrs 59 minutes and three other trains at 3 hr 20 minutes to 3 hrs 30 some odd minutes. And this is summertime service which began May 18th. Nowhere, however, on the web, is there any indication of extra services or extra fare services. In the printed schedule I have ending 5/17 the Friday only train leave Hunterspoint at 4:06 and arrives 6:38, a two hour and 32 minute race. And the printed timetable also does not indicate any premium services or fares. But I had heard or read somewhere that there was bar car service up until quite recently.
henry6 Wasn't th other one the Hooterville Cannon Ball to Petticoat Jct.? And the LIRR CB was Parlor Car Service under the old Pullman Co. auspicies, then LIRR services. Even today the train gets better than average commuter services but I'm not sure what.
Wasn't th other one the Hooterville Cannon Ball to Petticoat Jct.? And the LIRR CB was Parlor Car Service under the old Pullman Co. auspicies, then LIRR services. Even today the train gets better than average commuter services but I'm not sure what.
(Courtesy Wikipedia): The Montauk Line has heavy ridership and frequent service as far as Patchogue and commuter service as far as Speonk. In the summer, with travelers going out to The Hamptons, Fire Island and other beaches, additional service is operated to the far eastern terminal at Montauk, such as the Cannonball, a Friday afternoon train departing from Hunterspoint Avenue and running non-stop between Jamaica and Westhampton.
KCSfanOver the years many railroads had trains that were either officially or unofficially named "Cannon Ball". To the best of my knowledge only two remained by the mid 1950's. What railroads ran the last two Cannon Balls, what were their routes and what first class accommodations were available on each of the two trains?
Then there was a Milwaukee train that supposedly ran until 1972 (past Amtrak?). Called the Watertown Cannonball it was a commuter train that ran between Milwaukee and Watertown. The Milwaukee applied to discontinue it in 1957 and again in 1958 both denied. At its peek there were 30 trains a day. Nothing but coach.
Then the Boston and Main ran a Cannon Ball from Boston to Plymouth - also 1900s with no idea how long it ran. I know nothing more about it.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter