Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

Johnny

You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question.

Al - in - Stockton

The Train that Never Was

I think that all followers of this thread know of the C&O’s plan to inaugurate a day train between Washington and Cincinnati. To make this possible, the C&O ordered new locomotives, many cars, including sleepers that would not be used on this train, but on various overnight trains. When the B&O learned of the plan, the Cincinnatian was launched, using equipment that the B&O already had.. It was not long before the B&O learned that there was no real market for such a schedule, and their train was moved to the Detroit-Cincinnati day run, which had been successful.

The C&O learned from the B&O’s experience, canceled its proposed deluxe train, bought some of the cars it had ordered, and allowed other roads to buy those that the C&O would not be able to use.

About the same time, two other roads planned a joint train that would run tri-weekly, using two sets of equipment (each one owned by one of the roads). Eleven cars were built for one railroad; no cars were built for the other railroad–and the train was swept away before it ever came into being (the cars that had been built were used on an existing joint train). What were the two roads? Which one had the cars built? What was the Train that Never Was? What train were the cars used on (with the name of the Train that Never Was on the letterboards)?

Why was the train swept away?

Johnny

I believe the trains you are talking about were the jointly owned SP/CRI&P Golden Rockets. There were to be two train sets one each owned by each road. Only the CRI&P train set was built by Pullman Standard. They were to have entered service between Chicago and Los Angeles in late 1947. The RI train set was completed as follows:

820 Baggage 24 Crew Dormitory Car

347 VALLE VERDE 48-Seat Leg Rest Coach

348 VALLE VISTA 48 - Seat Leg Rest Coach

349 VALLE MAR 48 -Seat Leg Rest Coach

412 EL CAFE "Fiesta" Coffee Shop Tavern Lounge Car

428 EL COMEDOR 36 Seat Dining Car

660 LA COSTA 22-Roomette Sleeping Car

LA JOLLA 12-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

LA PALMA 12 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

LA QUINTA 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room Sleeping Car

LA MIRADA 2-Double Bedroom 1 Drawing Room Buffet Lounge Observation.

The RI trainset made one trip to Los Angeles for promotional purposes and never carried any revenue passengers under the Golden Rocket name. The idea was the two train sets would operate on a 39-3/4 hour schedule to match the Super Chief and City of Los Angeles but it was never to be. The SP never completed there train set and the schedule could not have been met without ATS on the SP portion of the trackage from Tucumcari to Los Angeles. Instead the Golden Rocket cars went into Golden State service still lettered for the train that never was the Golden Rocket.

PS I just finished the final tax return for a client this afternoon so will have more time on my hands until the mad house starts all over in January 2010. Its been an especially long tax season this year and I have never had so many clients on extension as this year. I have a feeling this is going to become a permanent state for taxpayers with more and more going on extension from April 15 to October 15.

 

Al - in - Stockton   

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Johnny

You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question.

Al - in - Stockton

The Train that Never Was

I think that all followers of this thread know of the C&O’s plan to inaugurate a day train between Washington and Cincinnati. To make this possible, the C&O ordered new locomotives, many cars, including sleepers that would not be used on this train, but on various overnight trains. When the B&O learned of the plan, the Cincinnatian was launched, using equipment that the B&O already had.. It was not long before the B&O learned that there was no real market for such a schedule, and their train was moved to the Detroit-Cincinnati day run, which had been successful.

The C&O learned from the B&O’s experience, canceled its proposed deluxe train, bought some of the cars it had ordered, and allowed other roads to buy those that the C&O would not be able to use.

About the same time, two other roads planned a joint train that would run tri-weekly, using two sets of equipment (each one owned by one of the roads). Eleven cars were built for one railroad; no cars were built for the other railroad–and the train was swept away before it ever came into being (the cars that had been built were used on an existing joint train). What were the two roads? Which one had the cars built? What was the Train that Never Was? What train were the cars used on (with the name of the Train that Never Was on the letterboards)?

Why was the train swept away?

Johnny

[daveklepper]

Just for information.  I believe Metro North makes a practice of running only mu cars (all three lines) around the loops to equalize wheel wear.   Diesels probably have wheel wear equalization by moving trucks around under the locomotives at Harmon.  Non-powered coaches are not that critical, including the cab-cars.   Any comments from someone more familiar with the situation than I am?

[passengerfan]

Johnny

You got the four cars correct and I am sorry about the CN trackage from the border to Winnipeg for the Winnipeg Limited. Your question.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

In 1962, the UP had two 6-6-4 sleepers, American General and American View (A.C.F., 1950), rebuilt to 4 sections, 6 roomette, 4 double bedrooms, 1 small snack section, for service on the Butte Special?(Salt Lake City-Butte). But, the names apparently were not changed.

I can’t find any other rebuildings of just two cars.

Johnny

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Each road remodeled two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars for there own named trains, they only operated on the owning roads tracks from beginning to end of each run.Each road had two sets of equipment to maintain overnight service in each direction for thes named trains. Is that enough information to help.

Al - in - Stockton 

I think that I have found one pair:

In 1956, Great Northern had two of its 16 duplex roomette, 4 double bedroom Glacier cars (Oberlin Glacier & Harrison Glacier, P-S, 1947) rebuilt to 8 duplex roomette, 2 double bedroom, buffet lounge cars that were given the names Manitoba Club and Winnipeg Club, for service on the Winnipeg Limited. But, didn't this train run on CN rails into and out of Winnipeg?

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to?

Al - in - Stockton

Al, am I right in understanding that the cars each road had remodeled were for its own train, or was there one train operated jointly by the two roads?

Johnny

Each road remodeled two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars for there own named trains, they only operated on the owning roads tracks from beginning to end of each run.Each road had two sets of equipment to maintain overnight service in each direction for thes named trains. Is that enough information to help.

Al - in - Stockton 

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to?

Al - in - Stockton

Al, am I right in understanding that the cars each road had remodeled were for its own train, or was there one train operated jointly by the two roads?

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Two Western RRs each had two lightweight streamlined sleeping cars remodeled for specific train assignments. Name the two RRs name the cars and what type car they were before conversion and what type they became after and the trains they were assigned to?

Al - in - Stockton

[daveklepper]

CORRECT!!!     The MU's are run around the loop on a scheduled basis, smothing like once every two months.  I don't know how the diesels and unpowered coaches are handled.  Tt is pssible to trn equipment at both Croton Harmon, and at Brewster.  Think the New Haven line fleet can currently only be turned at Grand Central.

[passengerfan]

daveklepper

 So far incorrect.   Keep trying!

To promote even wear on the wheels.

Al - in - Stockton

[daveklepper]

 So far incorrect.   Keep trying!

[henry6]

But Mark, today's commuter coaches...those in push pull service especially...often have permanent seating so that half the riders are always riding backwards!  Otherwise, commuter coaches have flip over seats.  But that is not the reason trains use the loops today...

[KCSfan]

I'm guessing it must be to turn the train because unless the cars had flip over seats passengers would be riding backwards heading either outbound or inbound from GCT.

Mark

[daveklepper]

It is widely known that there are loop tracks for both the upper and lower levels at Grand Central Terminal.  Given that most trains, all pushpulls with dual-power and nearly all multiple unit electrics simply reverse ends at Grand Central, the push-pull dual power locos always on the north end and the cab car on the south, what really essential purpose do the loops served and why are they used regularly?

DO NOT ANSWER IF YOU ARE A METRO NORTH EMPLOYEE!!!!

[henry6]

Perspective!  I've seen the equpment changes, et al, on a regular basis, so I didn't even think all you have included, Dave!  But you are right.  There are still some position light signals around.  But in my shallowness I was thinking the complexity and multi meanings of the word "change", in this case, as an active verb.  Therefore I limited my sights to the AirTrain to JFK and the new stations for the F and J train services tunneled below the station building allowing for a covered passage from LIRR to subway instead of the three block hike to Jamaica Ave for the old BMT (the el structure is gone), or the further hike to the E&F train's old IND designated station; E train is still there but F's are on new line. 

At anyrate, Dave, your answers trump mine for sure...your turn...

[daveklepper]

There were still some trains that exchanged steam for DD-1 electrics for a run to Penn Station during and after WWII.   I don't know whether this lasted into the diesel era but I think it did.   The rolling stock is very different.  No more MP-54's, no more postwar conventional mu's.  No more baggage car service and checked baggage.  No more mail handling.   No Push Pulls back then or dual power, which exist today.   Position light signals back then, are they still around?   The track arrangement has been somewhat simplified with higher-speed switches.   No more active Union Hall Station East of Jamaica Station.   Newer platform train identification signs.   New public address system.

[henry6]

But that's only one change!

[wanswheel]

AirTrain

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/0/5/1905.1071727920.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/9/2/2892.1248711279.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/photo//1413609/L

http://www.airliners.net/photo/JetBlue-Airways/Airbus-A320-232/0936050/L/

[henry6]

CHANGE AT JAMAICA means so much to those riding the Long Island RR...I even have a 1950's era book of that title written by a hapless commuter who happened also to be a NY Times writer...but Mike's pictures posted above and in the question also point out another set of reasons for the phrase.  My grandparents lived just a block north of the station near the Arena and I could wax nostalgic of the many hours we spent train watching on those platforms a half century ago...cleaninng out the phone coin returns for up to $5 bucks for both of us after the rush hour; the long string of freight cars trundling eastbound around the station on the far south track away from the platforms, the double deckers the FM cabs the Owl eye cars the, well...enough...

... But it does bring up a question to ask about change at Jamaica in fact.  I can see...and have used...two major changes (note the word changes) at Jamaica station which were not extant back in the mid 20th Century.  What are those changes (aside from the platform and bridge work)?

[wanswheel]

Henry, yes your turn again. Change at Jamaica.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1287522

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=675668

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?54645

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Jamaica_Station_Arch.jpg/800px-Jamaica_Station_Arch.jpg

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/jamaica/Jamaica_c.1971RGlueck.jpg

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?42314

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?10541

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?10558

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?42534

[henry6]

Pic one made me think Pittsburgh...but two and three changed my mind about 400 miles east to:

Jamaica, Queens, on the Long Island!?

[wanswheel]

What station is this?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/1913.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/1927.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/Track.jpg

Mike

[henry6]

wanswheel

Rutland RR and B&M at Bellows Falls. They look like tin cans.

http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/chronicles/collora/COLLORA_06.jpg

B&M at White River Junction

http://books.google.com/books?id=TISRZNN0sCMC&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q=&f=true

Maine Central and B&M at Whitefield, NH

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=347353

Ouch! I forgot White River Jct.!  That makes five...my other picks were Quebec and Waumbec Junctions.  Most protected diamonds.  B&M  in all with the Rutland and Central Vermont factored in at Bellows Falls; CV was also at WRJ.  Maine Central was at Whitefield and Waumbec while CN's other NE line, the Grand Trunk, was at Quebec Jct.

I can't wait for what Wanswheel will spin out for the next question:

[wanswheel]

Rutland RR and B&M at Bellows Falls. They look like tin cans.

http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/chronicles/collora/COLLORA_06.jpg

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=892014

B&M and CV at White River Junction

http://books.google.com/books?id=TISRZNN0sCMC&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q=&f=true

http://naphotos.nerail.org/showpic/?200705141143099857.jpg

Maine Central and B&M at Whitefield, NH. 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=347353

http://www.signalbox.org/overseas/usa/whitefield.htm

[Texas Zepher]

henry6

Into the 60's I can think of three, maybe four, locations where actual ball signals were in use in the New England States...name them, thier reason, and as a bonus, the railroads involved in each location.

Funny, I remember just seeing an article on ball signals in the NE.  Unfortunately, now I don't know where that was.

[Deggesty]

DSO17

henry6

The obvious then would be rag or towel,to wipe handrail-grabiron.

     Correct. I guess some railroads were more careful about wiping the handrails than others. Around here you always saw it on the B&O and PRSL, usually on the Reading and very seldom on the PRR.

     Henry6 gets the next question by a couple minuites.

I think that the conductors, flagmen, and porters on all the roads I rode in the South were careful to wipe the handrails down before letting passengers off or on. (Even I did so the time I played Pullman porter and boarded a passenger at a scheduled stop when the porter was eating his lunch) However, I do not remember seeing anyone take a towel or other cloth out of the stepbox; I did see the men using paper towels that were either fresh or had been tucked behind one of the rails. Such a compartment is a better place to keep the wiper.

Johnny

[henry6]

It's been a while...harder to think of a question sometimes than to answer...but, fresh from a weekend in New England here goes....

Into the 60's I can think of three, maybe four, locations where actual ball signals were in use in the New England States...name them, thier reason, and as a bonus, the railroads involved in each location.

[DSO17]

henry6

The obvious then would be rag or towel,to wipe handrail-grabiron.

     Correct. I guess some railroads were more careful about wiping the handrails than others. Around here you always saw it on the B&O and PRSL, usually on the Reading and very seldom on the PRR.

     Henry6 gets the next question by a couple minuites.

[KCSfan]

I believe it was for a rag which the porters and trainmen would use to wipe down the railing which the passengers gripped when getting up or down the car's steps.

Mark