You're a lot deeper into BMT lines thatn my knowledge goes, but I'll hazard a "why". Did the two "unusable" lines have stations on curves? Curved stations built with gate cars in mind would leave a large gap between the platform edge and the doors on cars where the doors were not at the ends.
Chicago had a problem with the 5000 and 6000 series cars on the surface section of the Lake Street line where the fishbelly sides wouldn't clear the station houses on the middle platforms.
You are close. The issue did not involve curves, and if Unificaiton had not happened, and use of the elevated lines continued beyond being just a wartime measure for those that did continue, undoubtadly some minor changes would have solved the problem.
Think C-types, and you will have the answer.
The issue is tangetal to our dicsussion earlier concerning route numbers used b the BMT.
From what I can gather, the C-types had lower roofs enabling them to get to the Coney Island shops. They were also wider than the standard BRT cars, due to the rebuilding of the Fulton Street line to take IRT (?) size cars, and had outside sliding doors like Boston Elevated's 0500, 0700 and 01000 series.
Your answer included the clue, but IRT-width cars are the same as floor-width CTA cars and both Brooklyn and Manhattan-Bronx elevated cars. The BMT and IND steel subway cars are standard railroad passenger width. Another hint, the original Brooklyln Bridge cable railroad, opened with the bridge before unification and electrifrication of Brooklyn's elevated lines, including the extensions on steam railroads to Coney Island, was built with its two terminal stations to accomodate the 10-foot wide standard for railroad cars, and the open-platform gate cable cars were 10 feet wide.
But all the Brooklyn elevated lines, with two exceoptions, but including routes whose outer protions eventually had subway services, ran over the Brooklyn Bridge. The two exceptions were the Broadway-Brooklyn elevated routes to Jamaica and Canarsie, which ran to the Broadway Ferry, then later over the Williamsburg Bridge (and were equjipped with steel subway cars when the D-types came in the 1920's, replacing steel standard cars on the Brighton Local and Sea Beach Express lines, long before the experimentals, and were thus considered subway lines).
Or with the question mark after IRT, did you really mean BMT?
I'm not all that conversant with the differences. I wasn't sure if the wider cars were IRT or IND, so I think I meant IND.
OK: Wide cars, standard RR width, 10 ft.: BMT Steel and aluminum equipment, C-types, all IND cars, all current Division B (former IND and BMT and extensions), original Brooklyn Bridge cablecars.
Narrow, similar to CTA: All IRT equipment and current A Division, BMT gate cars, BMT Q (Flushing and Astoria from Queensboro Plaza on track shared with IRT) and predicessor companies excepting Brooklyn Bridge cablecars.
The No. 7 line msy be considered A division as far as car assignment and width, but since abandonment of the 2nd Avenue Elevated Qeensboro Bridge line in 1942, its only track connection is with the B Division at Qeensboro Plaza.
The Qs had their roofs lowered, not the Cs. The Cs had been transferred from Fulton to the Culver Shuttle when the IND A started running to Lefferts, eliminating the last of the Fulton Elevated. They were scrapped when the IND D train started running to Coney Island. The Fulton Elevated was built with wide clearances because it was originally built with the idea of through service over the Brooklyln Bridge, and thus subway platform clearances were possible.
The Qs had their roofs lowered when transferred from the Third Avenue Elevated Bronx, replaced by subway cars, to the Myrtle Avenue Elevated, replacing the last of the gate cars. The high-roof connection to Coney Island Shops via the Manhattan Bridge had been cut as part of the Chrystie Street connection project. I presume the gate cars were scrapped at Fresh Pond Yard and not at Coney Island. The Qs had been transferred from Queens to Third Avenue, then still running in Manahttan, in 1949, when Flushing became all-IRT--- and Astoria all BMT with platform clearances widened.
rc, next question please.
Staying with traction...
For a special service, this company had a combine set up as a control trailer that could not be trainlined with its own equipment. When the car wore out, its replacement in the special service it was equipped for was also used in regular service, and was very popular with commuters. The replacement car could be trainlined with its owner's equipment.
Name the railroad and the service.
Pacific Electric, the parlor car used by its President in his daily commute, replaced by another that regular commters also could use. Los Angeles - ?
Too far west. The car I'm referring to would be the equivalent of a PE car that could only train with LARy equipment if both were the same gauge.
One possibility is that in the days before the Indiana railroad consolidation, there was an Inidana Service car that ran as a single unit to be coupled to a United Traction car or train at Peru, Marion, or Blufton, to continue its trip from Fort Wayne to Indianapolis, and was replaced by equipment common to both systems that could provide through service or operate on either, even before the Indiana Railroad consolidation.
Another possibility is a Milwaukee to the north car compatible with North Shore equipment running through to Chicago. This would more likely have been freight, rather than passenger equipment. I forget the northern terminal of what became TMER&L system, De Pere?
All interesting options. Milwaukee Northern (later part of TM) did run box motors through from Sheboygan to Chicago over the CNS&M. Their motors had compatible HLF control -
The car and its replacement I'm looking for were used for a particular service which was jointly handled to an outlying location, but which ran only as required. The service was discontinued in the 1930s.
A Chicago Rapid Transit "funeral car" for running over the North Shore or visa versa.
Do not know the location of the cemetary but could be Mundelein. The pickup point would be the location of the "deseased."
For what it's worth, Chicago, Aurora & Elgin had a funeral car. I have not found more about it though. As I remember there are several large cemeteries on the west side of Chicago.
well, then it may have been some combination of the CA&E and/or CNS&M and/or CRT. Or possibly a hospital car?
Nariq01 is the closest. CA&E equipped one their car 109 as a control trailer for use with Metropolitan West Side Elevated's equipment for funeral service to cemeteries in Forest Park and Westchester. The CA&E and MWSE (later Chicago Rapid Transit) had a joint funeral bureau starting in 1909. When car 109 was no longer serviceable it was replaced by car 10, which had been built as a combine, rebuilt into a coach, and was rebuilt back into a combine for funeral service. CA&E also used it on Wheaton locals, where the parlor-style chairs were popular with commuters. All funeral service ended in 1934. CRT/CA&E's was the only rapid transit funeral service, and may have been the last electric railway funeral service.
Dave also had the right idea.
This is what I found on 109:
http://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2009/10/36.html
narig01It was listed as a motor not a trailer and left me wondering.
Here's where roster notes from various sources can contradict each other. Both CERA bulletin B-105 "The Great Third Rail" and http://www.greatthirdrail.org/rollingstock/index.html list 109 as a trailer. I still have two other books to check. 109 was built 1904 by Stephenson. CA&E 10, built by Niles as part of the first order of AE&C cars, was built as a combine in 1902, rebuilt as a coach in 1910, back to a combine in 1933. It retained its motors and remained in service until the early 1950s.
Both of MWSE's own funeral cars, 1904 Jewett-built 802 and 1898 Barney and Smith 756 were converted from motor cars to control trailers so the funeral party wouldn't be disturbed by the motors. 756 was later renumbered 2756, and was used as a hospital car after 1924, most famously at the 1926 Eucharistic Congress at Mundelein on the North Shore Line.
CTA's charter allows it to run funeral service, but it has never done so.
Still, its your question. Have fun!
Final tally after consulting and comparing a number of lists-- AE&C 109 was built as a trailer but motorized with Westinghouse AB control and GE-262 motors in 1906 for funeral service (AE&C equipment used GE type M control and Westinghouse motors). Retired in 1932, it was rebuilt to a flatcar in 1937. MWSE had motor car 802 and trailer 756 set up for funeral service, 756 was built as a motor car but lost its motors on conversion in 1907. AE&C 10 was built as a coach, converted to a combine in 1910, reconverted to a coach in 1919, re-reconverted to a combine in 1932 for funeral service, burned in an accidental fire in 1948.
I doubt any of this matters much, but as my wife says, "those who care, really care!"
A question:
Let's try US Railway Post Office for a category.
Who can name the first patent for a mail crane or hook, the name of the patent holder and the year?
Thx IGN
narig01 A question: Let's try US Railway Post Office for a category. Who can name the first patent for a mail crane or hook, the name of the patent holder and the year? Thx IGN
http://www.google.com/patents/US61584
Some of the Google abstract is gibberish.
Wanswheel that is the answer I was looking for.At their height, RPO cars were used on over 9,000 train routes covering more then 200,000 route miles. It was an interesting operation in history.
Wanswheel your question.
The question is, what will rcdrye's question be?
rcdrye narig01 A question: Let's try US Railway Post Office for a category. Who can name the first patent for a mail crane or hook, the name of the patent holder and the year? Thx IGN Patent 61,584 by L.F. Ward of Elyria Ohio, issued on January 29, 1867. I'm not sure where it was first actually used - I would bet on the LS&MS - but it was well known and widely used by the mid 1870s. http://www.google.com/patents/US61584 Some of the Google abstract is gibberish.
Patent 61,584 by L.F. Ward of Elyria Ohio, issued on January 29, 1867. I'm not sure where it was first actually used - I would bet on the LS&MS - but it was well known and widely used by the mid 1870s.
RCDye your question. I need better glasses I think. I thought both replies were from wanswheeel.
Rgds ign
His answer was certainly more in depth!
Since the mail must go through - name two interurban RPO routes. Closed pouch mail does not qualify.
Indianapolis - Peru and Fort Wayne - New Castle. both Indiana Railroad. Earlier, Union Traction of Indiana with the latter run jointly with Indiana Service Corporation. Service on the first ended 10 July 1938, buses having replaced the regular passenger runs five days earlier. Service on the second ended 18 Janary 1941, the last day of scheduled Indiana Railroad operations. The Indianapolis - Seymore line had one round trip daily afterward, until the accident on 8 September 1941, but this was an Indiana Public Service obligatory operatiion, despite the name Indiana Railroad remaining on the two cars used alternately.
While Dave's answer is correct the way I asked the question, I was looking for two different interurbans. So... it's your question, but I'd like to get at least one more interurban on the side.
Pacific Electric had several RPO runs, and the LA - San Bernadino one outlasted passenger service by about 8 - 10 years, if my memory is correct.
I think the West Jersey and Seashore had an Atlantic City - Ocean City RPO at one time, ditto Bamberger Salt Lake City - Ogden.
My question is easy, and the subject has been discussed on this Forum before.
Name the railroad line, connected to and part of the national network, where electrified passenger service, a service that still operates, predates all other existing railroad electrifications and/or existing electric passenger services on the national network. End points of the existing service and original electrification. If you know the subsequent history, please continue to the present.
daveklepperName the railroad line, connected to and part of the national network, where electrified passenger service, a service that still operates, predates all other existing railroad electrifications and/or existing electric passenger services on the national network. End points of the existing service and original electrification. If you know the subsequent history, please continue to the present.
Possibilities:
I remember discussions involving the Stamford-New Canaan branch, first with the DC 'streetcar' electrification, then reversion to steam for a while, then one of the first 11kV AC installations. Was this the line that had the interesting wooden cars?
Technically B&O would have transported passengers through the tunnel with the original 1895 electrification, but that really doesn't count.
If we take the 'present service' as a trick question (it didn't say electric service), I think there are portions of the old New Haven third-rail electrification with the A-frame third rail that are traversed by the MBTA commuter service to Greenburg (?) that was established in the late 2000s, I think 2007. That was a fascinating technology.
It was described in Burch and also in this downloadable PDF of Street Railway Journal.
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