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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, August 15, 2009 1:52 PM

wanswheel
Johnny awards Mark the win on grounds of doubt that anyone could top him for quantity. Mark invites a less frequent contributor to be the first to answer his question. Zephyr Overland names dozens more directional trains including West Taku Arm Special.

 

Yes, sin in haste; repent at leisure.

Johnny

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Posted by passengerfan on Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:25 PM

My question is name the five longest passenger train routes in the world and name the trains that operate over those routes.

Al - in - Stockton 

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:19 AM

 My two candidates are:

The Canadian - 4465 km between Toronto and Vancouver 

The Indian Pacific - 4352 km between Sydney and Perth in Australia?

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, August 16, 2009 1:10 PM

Wanswheel got three and Mark got one there is still one to go.

Al - in - Stockton

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, August 16, 2009 3:39 PM

Al,

If you agree with the distances I posted for the two trains the Canadian's route is the longer of the two.

Canadian - 4466 km = 2774 miles

Indian Pacific - 4352 km = 2704 miles

Since they are so close in length, I am amazed to hear there is another route whose distance falls between the 70 miles that separates these two and anxiously await learning what it is.

Mark

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Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:02 PM

KCSfan

Al,

If you agree with the distances I posted for the two trains the Canadian's route is the longer of the two.

Canadian - 4466 km = 2774 miles

Indian Pacific - 4352 km = 2704 miles

Since they are so close in length, I am amazed to hear there is another route whose distance falls between the 70 miles that separates these two and anxiously await learning what it is.

Mark

Mark I do agree with the mileages you put up for the two trains but you missed the Canadian National at 2930.3 miles Montreal to Vancouver and the train was the Super Continental. That makes it longer than the CP route and the Indian Pacific falls to sixth place.

Al in Stockton

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:12 PM

passengerfan

Mark I do agree with the mileages you put up for the two trains but you missed the Canadian National at 2930.3 miles Montreal to Vancouver and the train was the Super Continental. That makes it longer than the CP route and the Indian Pacific falls to sixth place.

Al in Stockton

What was the distance when VIA operated the Canadian from Montreal via Toronto? I do not remember the year (I am 24 miles from home, 4,000 feet higher, and (supposedly) 10 degrees cooler, and I do not expect to go home for several days; our morning temperature today was about 40, with about 50 noted in the valley), but I do recall seeing that variation in operation.

Johnny

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Posted by passengerfan on Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:49 PM

Deggesty

passengerfan

Mark I do agree with the mileages you put up for the two trains but you missed the Canadian National at 2930.3 miles Montreal to Vancouver and the train was the Super Continental. That makes it longer than the CP route and the Indian Pacific falls to sixth place.

Al in Stockton

What was the distance when VIA operated the Canadian from Montreal via Toronto? I do not remember the year (I am 24 miles from home, 4,000 feet higher, and (supposedly) 10 degrees cooler, and I do not expect to go home for several days; our morning temperature today was about 40, with about 50 noted in the valley), but I do recall seeing that variation in operation.

Johnny

Johnny

That wasn't 50 years ago but I too remember when the Canadian operated via Via ran from Montreal to Toronto then on to Vancouver that would have been longer. I can also remember when the original Canadian would arrive in Vancouver from the east and a bus transferred passengers from trainside to the CPR dock within site of each other probably not more than a block apart in Vancouver where one boarded the CPR Princess Patricia or Princess Marguerite for the trip to Seattle via Victoria all on one ticket. Unfortunately I can also remember the two CPR night boats from Seattle to Victoria and Vancouver the Princess Joan and Princess Elizebeth. I believe it was 1954 that the night boats were discontinued. I have never understood why these fine ships were ever called boats when they were in excess of 350' . When I was in the Navy we never called our destroyer a boat it was always a ship.

Al in Stockton

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, August 16, 2009 9:10 PM

passengerfan

That wasn't 50 years ago but I too remember when the Canadian operated via Via ran from Montreal to Toronto then on to Vancouver that would have been longer. I can also remember when the original Canadian would arrive in Vancouver from the east and a bus transferred passengers from trainside to the CPR dock within site of each other probably not more than a block apart in Vancouver where one boarded the CPR Princess Patricia or Princess Marguerite for the trip to Seattle via Victoria all on one ticket. Unfortunately I can also remember the two CPR night boats from Seattle to Victoria and Vancouver the Princess Joan and Princess Elizebeth. I believe it was 1954 that the night boats were discontinued. I have never understood why these fine ships were ever called boats when they were in excess of 350' . When I was in the Navy we never called our destroyer a boat it was always a ship.

Yes, it definitely was less than fifty years ago; my error in introducing it into the discussion.

As to ship/boat, I do not know if there is an official demarcation line, but I know that my brother, who was a radarman on a minesweep (AM55), was on a ship, and not a boat, even though it was smaller than a destroyer. I do not think that anybody would cavil at calling a dory, yawl, gig, or lifeboat a boat.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, August 17, 2009 1:58 AM

passengerfan

Mark I do agree with the mileages you put up for the two trains but you missed the Canadian National at 2930.3 miles Montreal to Vancouver and the train was the Super Continental. That makes it longer than the CP route and the Indian Pacific falls to sixth place.

Al in Stockton

Duh. I must be suffering from old timers disease to have missed that one,Sign - Oops

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 17, 2009 5:00 AM

Interesting indeed.   Look forward to the next question.   Meanwhile, overnight ships between costal points were often called night-boats.   Case in point:   In the summer of 1937, age 5, I rode overnight on the Boston Night Boat from NYC .  I remember the taxi to North Station and the train  to Concord or Plymouth, NH.    Returned with mother and father the same way.   I think there were other Night Boats along the eastern seabord.

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Posted by passengerfan on Monday, August 17, 2009 6:09 AM

Not getting to far off subject but on the west coast several RRs provided coastal steamship services and realizing it is someone else's question Ijust thought i would mention the following.

GN/NP provided service between Astoria Oregon and San Francisco with two steamships named SS Great Northern and SS Northern Pacific. They were actually faster than the competing SP Rail route between Portland and San Francisco. An SP&S train took passengers from Portland to Astoria for the steamship service. From Seattle GN operated transpacific ships at one time.

CPR provided coastal steamships that connected Vancouver with Nanaimo, Skagway, Seattle, the Gulf Islands,  Victoria the Sunshine Coast and coastal steamer services from Victoria up the west coast of Vancouver Island and the Queen Charlotte Islands. Later they provided cruise ship services to Alaska

CNR provided steamship services from Seattle to Victoria, Vancouver and on to Prince Rupert at one time. They also provided cruise ship services to Alaska.

Al - in - Stockton

 

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, August 17, 2009 7:10 AM

I looked up boat. Webster's says, "1. a small, open vessel or watercraft propelled by oars, sails or engine. 2. a large vessel; ship: landsman's term applied especially to river steamers." Funk & Wagnall's says, "1. a small, open watercraft propelled by oars, sails or an engine. 2. Colloq. Any watercraft of any size, ranging from a rowboat to an ocean liner."

http://cruiselinehistory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/44cprsteam410.jpg

http://www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/c1389842.html

In the old days when New York was the king of ports and the nation's biggest factory town, most railroads in the region had maritime freight facilities there. What railroad had an East River pier and a freight terminal in Manhattan, but no tracks in New York City or New Jersey?

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, August 17, 2009 8:21 AM

Off hand I would give first choice: B&O and second choice UP.

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, August 17, 2009 10:40 AM

B&O had tracks on Staten Island and at the W. 26th St. freight house.  I don't know of any Union Pacific pier but Southern Pacific had a pier for its steamship line to New Orleans. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:51 AM

I believe that is the correct answer.  

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Posted by wanswheel on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:47 PM

Southern Pacific was on West St. and the Hudson River. The freight terminal of the railroad in question was on South St. and the East River at Pier 29. One of its steamers was in town all day, getting unloaded and loaded. Meanwhile another steamer was unloaded and loaded at the railroad's other pier at the end of its main line. They sailed back and forth at night.

Pier 29 is the 3rd pier south (to the left) of the Manhattan Bridge. The railroad's steamer is just visible above the roadway to the right of the tower of the Brooklyn Bridge.

The railroad's steamer at Pier 29 is visible between the towers of the bridges.  PRR and B&O are near the Brooklyn Bridge. 

South St. viewed from the deck of the Manhattan Bridge. At the lower left is some water and a side view of the front part of Pier 29.  Lackawanna is further down at Pier 26 (the long building).

Pier 29 is the structure with 3 triplets of upstairs windows and a flagpole.  That's the Brooklyn tower of the Brooklyn Bridge.

The railroad's steamers sailed under a bridge on which its most famous through train rolled.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 6:07 AM

Thanks for the hint.   The Central Vermont.   And it smost famouse train was the Monteraler/Washingtonian.

 

Now, do I get to ask the next question?

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 7:12 AM

Dave of course!

The 3 CV steamers were the New York, the New London and the Vermont. The LCL freight they transported on the East River, Long Island Sound and the Thames River was shipped to or from New York and Chicago via Canada at a differential rate.

This is at New London, Connecticut

The water tower is in the linked picture. The old freighthouse is gone.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2005120720220710016.jpg

Boxcars in New London got jostled by the 1938 hurricane.

Mike

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:00 AM

Those are truly marvelous photoraphs.   Thanks.   I should point out the the B&M also operated the Montrealer/Washingtonian, but that was not by any means its premier train.   Its premier trains were definitely the Flying Yankee and the Minuteman.    The B&M's East Wind also operated over Hell Gate.

 

Asa far as I know, the "Boston Night Boat" was a separate operation, not part of the B&M.   I think the firm was called "The Fall River LIne", even though the Boston Night Boat did not dock at Fall River.

 

Now for the question:   During the height of the streetcar-interuruban era, at least ten fairly large North American cities had electric public rail transit of one sort or another emplying two or more different gauges.   Which ones were they?    Please don't answer unless you can name at least seven. 

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, August 24, 2009 2:09 AM

New Orleans - broad gauge and standard gauge streetcars

Philadelphia - broad gauge streetcars, standard gauge subway

Camden - broad gauge streetcars, broader gauge and standard gauge interurbans

Trenton - standard gauge streetcars, 3 different broad gauges of interurbans

Wheeling - broad gauge steetcars, standard gauge suburban lines

Columbus - broad gauge streetcars, standard gauge interurbans

Cincinnati - broad gauge streetcars, standard gauge interurbans at city limits

Louisville - broad gauge streetcars, standard gauge elevated line to Indiana

Denver - narrow gauge Trams, standard gauge interurban

Los Angeles - narrow gauge and standard gauge streetcars

I'm glad you liked the pictures. CV planned to have a passenger steamer to New London but it didn't happen due to World War I. For about 3 years before the war, CV and Grand Trunk ran a through sleeper from New London to Chicago via Montreal, according to my father, who almost certainly had to have visited Pier 29 because he moved to New York right after graduation from Notre Dame in 1936.  Dad was a messenger at the St. Albans dispatcher's office from 1926 to 1932, and he worked on a track gang during summer vacations from college.  His father and two uncles were CV engineers, of course.  In 1971, he submitted a long and detailed proposal for restoration of the Montrealer, which put Vermont on the Amtrak map in 1972, and led to his appointment to the Amtrak board of directors in 1974. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:42 AM

MIke, you win and get to ask the next question.   But a few minor corrections and some additions.

The local cross-river interuruban to New Albany and Jefforsonville was the same broad gauge as the Lousville streetcar system, but the Indiana Railroad, and its predicessor Interstate Public Service, entered Louisville on the same bridge on standard gauge with dual-gauge track on the birdge.   Therefor, New Albany, as well as Louisville, had two gauges.  In fact, the local Birney-operated New Albany system was standard gauge, and so New Albany outlasted Louisville as having two gauges, since the local interurban to Lousiville and the local streetcars outlasted the Indiana Railroad service.

New Orleans also had the standard gauge NO-Kenner interurban

Philadelphia also has and had the Norristown Line at 69th Street and had the interurbans to Allentown over that line until 1953, standard gauge.

Cincinnati had interurbans, one at the same broad gauge as the streetcar system, several standard gauge, and one narrow gauge.

Los Angeles, the streetcars were all narrow gauge.   The Pacific Electric interurbans were all standard gauge.   But some of the PE routes could possibly be described as streetcar.

Toronto had two standard gauge interurbans at city limits 

 San Francisco:  The cable cars cars are now completely and were mostly narrow gauge.

Most funiculars are special gauges, so Pittsbught and Johnston, among others, can be counted

 

Again, Mike your question

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:28 AM

God rest Ted Kennedy.

What railroad did his brother Bobby ride on a whistlestop campaign on May 31, 1968 and what railroad did his brother John ride to a football game on December 1, 1962?

Mike

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 27, 2009 2:48 AM

My guess and i'll admit only a guess, is Boston and Maine for th efirst and PRR for the second.

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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:00 AM

Not B&M, far from it.

Yes, President Kennedy took the train to the Army-Navy Game.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 28, 2009 3:22 AM

So does my 50% qualify me for the next question or do you wish to ask another question?  Your choice.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, August 28, 2009 7:10 AM

Sure Dave, your question next.

Robert F. Kennedy was on the Southern Pacific just 5 days before the awful news on the radio in Vietnam. John F. Kennedy rooted for Navy. In the old days the Pennsy brought the teams, the cadets and midshipmen, and tens of thousands of fans on special trains from New York and Washington directly to Municipal Stadium (JFK Stadium) in South Philadelphia.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 31, 2009 3:56 AM

Name all the railroads that served Durango, Colorado. And to where they ran.  Were they all three-foot gauge?   If there was an exception, which was it and why was it an exception?   What was the eventual plan.   And what actually happened?

 You must have at least three railroad names to answer and know the answer to the last four questions.

 

An edit:  Since there are no answers so far, I"ll relent.   Need not know the eventural plan.   Just the other answers, and three railroads remain enough.   (There are more.)   

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, September 2, 2009 2:50 AM

Do I have to make the question even easier to answer?

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