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International overnight services

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 3, 2021 5:33 AM

Going into Penn Cental days, a sleeper or up to seveal sleepers were handled on The Federal as follows:

 Boston - Washington

Providence - Washington

Boston - New York

New York - Washington

If I remember correctlty, only Boston - Washington made it into Amtrak and for some time was operated by Amtrak.

Earlier, in New Haven - PRR days, with separate Boston - Washington (Federal), Boston - NY (Owl) and NY - Washington (?) trains, there were also

Providence - NY

Boston - Philadelphia

Springfield - Washington

In addition, in its last days, the State of Maine, to and from Portland and Bangor, ME, was combined with the Owl south of Providence, which restored a light breakfast service for Owl passengers into NY.  The Owl left Boston at 2AM with sleepers open at 10pm for occupancy.  

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 11:36 PM

Pais -Nice overnight service to be restored in April. The article mentions that other service will start when equipment is acquired.  Brings up the question was all the overnight service cars scrapped with the down turn previously?  Anyone have any references ?

France to restore Paris – Nice night train in April | International Railway Journal (railjournal.com)

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, December 13, 2020 10:33 PM

From looking at the video, the early shots of the GWR looked like Brunel's 7 foot gauge. At the Didcot railway museum there are some 7 foot lcomotives and cars that are operable but I think they are replicas. The dual gauge track and points are pretty interesting to look at. 

Back to sleepers- I think a Toronto to Chicago service would be useful as well as say, Toronto to Montreal. Via did have such a service a few years ago where the sleeper car would lay over in Kingston (I think) so people could get a night's sleep and would be picked and and taken to Montreal at a reasonable hour. Didn't Amtrak have such a service between Washington and NYC? 

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 13, 2020 8:42 PM

You'll be chuckling but I was going to introduce this a couple of days ago in the other thread as ideas for making high speed trains serve other areas.  I had the idea when still very young; I saw a New York Central MU train and erroneously thought it was a self-propelled long-distance consist going to have a prime mover attached at Harmon.

Obviously the God's Wonderful Railway method would work poorly (if at all) in modern practice, but consider combining the idea with the way the Southern Railway in England ran the Atlantic Coast Express.  Ignore for a moment that Chicago and New York are both high-traffic destinations, and imagine London as the principal origin of a wide range of 'down' routes and destination of a wide range of 'up'.  The ACE would leave London as an enormously long train, but would be progressively whittled down at intermediate stops on diverging routes where engines would be waiting; the reverse train toward London would be progressively assembled with each added car also serving the following stops until a huge long train arrived at Paddington.

Now it might be possible with automatic couplers, etc. to detach part of a high-speed consist without severely slowing or stopping, and direct those cars into one of the "branches" to be served at high speed.  The opposite number going the other way could, at the appropriate time, also dump a part there.  These would slow as appropriate, make branch stops, and coming the other way would accelerate to match and connect with the appropriate train.

This is much like a slip coach under powered control, which instead of just stopping at an intermediate station and needing to be retrieved later by switcher or local could act as a railcar -- there are  several historical examples of RDCs as trailers detached for self-propelled routes.

With some fancy active elements for streamlining this might work up to an effective peak speed, retaining both the speed retention of the 'dropping' train and the flexibility of fast operation on branches as well as serving intermediate stops on the main route that were too small or frequently spaced to preserve end-to-end high speed and least-time performance.

Heck, when I was 8, I thought it could work.  (The alternatives for one-seat branch operations are not as quick...)

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, December 13, 2020 7:25 PM

BaltACD

 

 
charlie hebdo
 
BaltACD

What relation does this have to the thread topic?  Any? 

 

It isn't US or CDN so it must be International - to think if this as a valid business undertaking whomever had to be asleep.

 

Why so? 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, December 13, 2020 7:21 PM

charlie hebdo
 
BaltACD

What relation does this have to the thread topic?  Any? 

It isn't US or CDN so it must be International - to think if this as a valid business undertaking whomever had to be asleep.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, December 13, 2020 4:28 PM

Exactly.  I think slip cars were mostly in England. 

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, December 13, 2020 4:00 PM

Balt might be thinking of the pick up and set out service for Pullman cars, though a slip coach set out would probably be a rude awakening.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, December 13, 2020 3:18 PM

BaltACD

What relation does this have to the thread topic?  Any? 

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Posted by 54light15 on Sunday, December 13, 2020 2:05 PM

Were slip coaches ever used in North America? 

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, December 13, 2020 12:16 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, December 10, 2020 2:20 PM

New announcement about expanding night - jet service. in western Europe.  Note that France only shows Paris as a terminal. Map is not showing any intra France service however that may change in the future.

ÖBB, DB, SBB, and SNCF announce Nightjet collaboration | International Railway Journal (railjournal.com)

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, September 29, 2020 12:25 AM

Croatia summer ovrnight service deemed a success with better that 90% overall loads.  Last train September 26.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/passenger/regiojets-train-to-croatia-is-a-sell-out-summer-success/57451.article 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, September 24, 2020 4:58 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, September 17, 2020 1:49 PM
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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, September 11, 2020 8:01 PM

Sweden pputs out feelers for its proposed night trains thre Denmark to Germany.

https://www.railjournal.com/regions/europe/trafikverket-launches-tender-to-operate-night-trains-in-sweden-and-denmark/   

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Saturday, August 22, 2020 3:16 AM

Night jet starting a new maitenance facility that includes a 2 train building.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/passenger/nightjet-depot-investment-to-support-sleeper-train-network-expansion/57203.article 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 9:39 PM

Guess it had to happen.  Some of the new private night train startups are complaining about state owned night train proposals and services.  Here is a link from what appears a spokesman of the private night train operators complaining about state owned RRs.

https://www.railjournal.com/opinion/fair-treatment-essential-for-european-night-train-revival

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 10:44 PM

1. The neutrality of and return of an independent Switzerland was established in 1815 at the Congress of Vienna by the European powers. 

2. The elimination of border checks for the parties to the Schengen Agreement was in March 1995. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 9:41 PM

CMStPnP
H-m-m-m-m-m, now I seem to remember the Hannover to Berlin, DB train that ran across East Germany.   

"Passthrough" trains are a different situarion.

CMStPnP
 Also, if a late overnight train I am not sure why you would want to stop in the very early a.m. at stops in Toronto....

As another poster has pointed out, it's VIA's decision, and I don't think they would exclude service.

I would guess that the two customs services could work out some general procedure to avoid many middle-of-the-night inspections, however, there would be enough odd situations to give the operation bad reviews.  The US-Canada border has been a hassle since 9/11/2001.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 8:06 PM

BaltACD
Wasn't aware that Switzerland, being surrounded by EU countries wasn't a member.  I guess being a member would have made it harder for 'crooks' to hide their ill gotten gaines in numbered Swiss bank accounts.

It's more because they tired of being dragged into European Wars and have declared themselves both Politically and Militarially neutral.    The country is engineered to go it alone militarily in any major conflict including Nuclear.   During WWII if you crashed or landed in Switzerland as a combatant it was the country's policy to inter you until the end of the war instead of returning you back to your country.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:56 PM

BaltACD
Imagine having to 'show your papers' every time you crossed a state line in the USA. Add Quote to your Post

It was more involved in that.    They asked for your passport in the 1980's and 1990's once you checked into a hotel and I believe the local police were notified where you were staying.    If you needed your passport during your stay you would have to ask for it back from the front desk clerk and you had to tell them of your plans.    While it is true there wasn't really a customs check you still had to go through customs at the border of each European Country in 1984-1985.   I think what Charlie Hebdo is referring to is you were not asked to declare anything and they did not generally search your luggage.    They just checked your passport and matched it's picture to your face and asked a question or two.    It was more an effort to catch terrorists.    They had an agreement with the Armed Forces in that all they needed for a subset of NATO aligned countries was an Army ID Card to cross the border..........passport not needed.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:51 PM

The various Swiss railroads range from amazing to breathtaking.

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Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:08 PM

The Swiss were never part of the EU, I am well aware of that. The customs checks in the 1970s weren't much.They looked at your passport and that was all. No luggage checks, nothing like that. That was even when I crossed Switzerland from Germany to Italy. The inspection was minimal. There was a custom check from Germany to the Czech republic when I was there in 2005 but there again, it was a minimal inspection and that is no longer done. 

One thing I sure remember about Switzerland in the 1970s were the amazing "Krokodile" electric locomotives- they were amazing! 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 5:58 PM

charlie hebdo
1. Switzerland is not in the EU.  2. The customs checks within the EU nations ceased after the 1970's but even before then was very smooth.

Wasn't aware that Switzerland, being surrounded by EU countries wasn't a member.  I guess being a member would have made it harder for 'crooks' to hide their ill gotten gaines in numbered Swiss bank accounts.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 5:25 PM

1. Switzerland is not in the EU.  2. The customs checks within the EU nations ceased after the 1970's but even before then was very smooth.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 4:53 PM

54light15
When I went from Paris to Florence on an Italian sleeper train in 2004, I had to give my passport to the porter to show to Swiss customs as we crossed the border. Passengers weren't disturbed, at least I wasn't. I recall travelling in Europe by train in the 1970s, customs agents would board the train a stop before the border and check every passport and then get off the train at a station beyond the border for a return trip. It worked well and was a lot more efficient than the process I endured when taking the Maple Leaf to New York. 

Wasn't a big part of the formation of the EU about reducing all the red tape and other impediments to people and goods moving freely within the confines of the EU.

Imagine having to 'show your papers' every time you crossed a state line in the USA.

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Posted by 54light15 on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 1:45 PM

When I went from Paris to Florence on an Italian sleeper train in 2004, I had to give my passport to the porter to show to Swiss customs as we crossed the border. Passengers weren't disturbed, at least I wasn't. I recall travelling in Europe by train in the 1970s, customs agents would board the train a stop before the border and check every passport and then get off the train at a station beyond the border for a return trip. It worked well and was a lot more efficient than the process I endured when taking the Maple Leaf to New York. 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 11:24 AM

I think the only stops in Canada for the Chicago-Toronto trains were Sarnia (border)  and London (population almost 400,000, Branford (100,000) and Strathroy (20,000). Since the train would be run in cooperation with VIA,  the US should not dictate stops in Canada. 

The example of Interzone trains in the DDR seems irrelevant to this. 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, August 12, 2020 9:40 AM

MidlandMike
Vancouver and Montreal are different, in that it is a short distance to the border, and there are no intermediate stops.  On the Chicago-Toronto run, the border is at the midpoint, with lots of intermediate stations on each side, so you could not seal the train.  I took the daytime ATK/VIA Chicago-Toronto train a couple of times in the 90s, and there was a rigorous customs inspection at the border.  

H-m-m-m-m-m, now I seem to remember the Hannover to Berlin, DB train that ran across East Germany.    Customs was handled after boarding, they stopped the train at the border to search underneath and inspect the conductor manifest.....but did not board the train nor did they disturb the sleeping passengers.    They did seal the train between the East German border and West Berlin which they inspected as the train crawled past the border checkpoint into West Berlin.    So I have seen it done in much more adverse border conditions than you have in the United States.  

There is precedent and it's done with frieght cars on a regular basis between terminals just within the United States.   Little paperclip type wire with lead seal.    If it is broken someone exited or entered the car or tampered with the seal, you know the contents of the car are probably suspect.     Also, if a late overnight train I am not sure why you would want to stop in the very early a.m. at stops in Toronto......that are probably easy driving distance into Toronto at a later time in the morning on the Eastbound run.    Westbound run to Chicago not sure those little bergs in Toronto would be providing much traffic to Chicago.....why would you stop the train there.    Granted private railroads did it in the past because they probably needed to make the stop for mail or packages AND Amtrak probably blindly followed the practice or had to do so via a partnership with VIA.

Also, there is a benefit of cutting out all those little towns in Ontario before Toronto, in that you do not need to share in the fixed costs at the depots you do not use and the train would either run faster or have more padding available in it's schedule.

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