I found four (4) paragraphs at the end of Bob Johnston's fine article on VIA in the November Trains Magazine (page 33), which I believe bear repeating for those wondering "How" Amtrak might improve:
"Fortunately, all VIA presidents have stayed the course on a common goal over the past 40 years despite budget slashes, equipment shortages, and indifference from CN dispatchers.
"We're not in the 'running trains' business", he says, "we're in the hospitality business. We make people feel welcome and well treated. We put that pride in the work we do, whether here in the maintenance center, getting trains ready, on-board, in our call centers, or in our stations. If we live that emotion, we see results; that's what makes us different, and the key piece is focusing on our people."
"The concept and clear mission influences friendly and energetic employees, the quality of the meals they serve, and even the thickness of blankets and smoothness of sheets and towels in the sleeping cars. This unwavering commitment has helped counteract delays, often-cramped space, few departures, and the lack of lower fares that would make VIA more relevant in the intercity passenger market. If you can't achieve speed and punctuality, at least dial up the comfort and attention.
"Although rejected at Amtrak by current top management's limited "what's possible" perspective and unwillingness to break out of the comfort zone with which it is familiar, the value of good customer service for a transportation organization facing so many constraints cannot be understated. VIA Rail Canada has consistently played that card well in the past, and the future remains bright if it continues to do so."
Thus concludes one of the best analyses of ANY transportation business--at least in my opinion. Amtrak would do well to at least "consider" much of what's been said in those four paragraphs. I realize there are only so many things within the control of management, but the continued treating Amtrak like a political football or a toy MUST STOP!!!
How about the suggestions of "commitment", "service", and "comfort"? How about treating passengers as "guests" and "customers" rather than cattle and a nuisance? How about improving the food service, as railroads were previously renowned, instead of eliminating it or turning it into a modified "fast food to go" zoo? (With apologies to the many well run zoos.) How about trying to work WITH others rather than imposing your will through the "It's my way, or the highway" attitude?
Obviously, many things could use improvement, and only a few are actually under Amtrak's ability to control. However, the latest "demands" for the improvements to the route for the Southwest Chief leave everyone involved wondering if there truly is an interest in running a railroad, or at least that particular route. When the various parties made a concerted effort to come up with funding for the necessary improvements, the "outrageous demand" by Amtrak's CEO for ALL the financing to be in place before contributing ANY money is another political grandstanding move that falls on deaf ears!
I'm now somewhere between suggesting "Dickie Delta" be tarred and feathered, and having him run out of town on the proverbial "rail" (and NOT on an Amtrak rail). It's obvious he's either forgotten how to work with others, or never knew it in the first place.
Convicted One Talking a class 1 into accepting a new relationship such as that, which otherwise does not benefit them in any way,......well I doubt it could be done.
Talking a class 1 into accepting a new relationship such as that, which otherwise does not benefit them in any way,......well I doubt it could be done.
I think I have an offer the freight railroads could not refuse: The railroad infrastructure (except for their dispatch center(s) would be upgraded and maintained by the passenger rail company if the passenger rail company were allowed to use it for free.
Colorado_Macfairly dedicated right-of-way (saw very few freights)
It appears that way if all you do is ride a passenger train and then leave the mainline to go and do what you want. However, if you railfan the mainline or live next to it, you will see that a lot of lines have a good portion of freight trains on them. As I said in another post back in the mid-1980's I was stationed with 2nd AD (FWD) in Garlstedt, Germany which is just a few miles from Osterholz-Sharmbeck, Germany halfway up the Bremen Germany to Bremerhaven Germany. I initially thought the line was solely passenger until one spare Saturday I stayed at the Depot and watched the trains go by. I was absolutely surprised at the before then invisible freights on the line.
Turns out that DB was scheduling the passenger trains to run with absolute priority and the frieghts would only run in windows around the passenger trains but not at the same time. That line handled at least two ore trains a day back then a number of TOFC frieghts and of course mixed manifest trains. What really impressed me was the ore trains looked similar to what you see on DM&IR but the ore jennies were decades newer and the trains would fly by at least doing 70-80 mph. Can you imagine a DM&IR train of ore jennies going that fast and not flying apart bolt by bolt? I can't.
The Germans had no qualms about running freight trains through towns, villages and small cities at 70-80 mph. Typically they would elevate the line in larger populated areas so it didn't have grade crossings. Usually could only find grade crossings in medium sized towns or smaller.
The other thing about German TOFC trains is the TOFC was well beyond just box cargo trailers. Trailers of Liquified Gas, Covered loose material trailers, etc were on the TOFC trains. United States we seem to have just the box cargo dominate to the exclusion of everything else (not sure why that is).
Anyhow, thats what I obeserved while stationed there. Oh and one more thing, they didn't use the cheap wooden gates at crossings in the city, they had a tubular Iron beam descend across the entire road with a collapsable steel net unfold underneath (I guess to stop skidding cyclists from sliding under the gate). There wasn't any of this driving around the gates nonsense nor the oops! lets pretend the RR crossing doesn't exist by drivers. The RR crossing was respected.
The other off topic item is back then (1984-1985), Germans were mandated by law I believe to shut off thier engines if stopped for a train instead of letting the car idle. On the late model Mercedes they sell now in the U.S. the feature is automatic and you can turn it off but if not when you come to a stop the engine shuts off automatically then when you press the gas it restarts and shifts into gear.....that used to be manual in the 1980's and Europe is where that feature came from.
Anderson'a idea for the Super Chief.
I just returned from Italy and Switzerland, where passenger trains really work. Keep in mind this is based on a 3-week stay; European members feel free to jump in and comment on what it's like to actually live there.
We traveled hundreds of miles with thousands of people at a fair speed, price and comfort. But it seemed to me that have four things the United States does not - support of the government, support of the people (via higher taxes), fairly dedicated right-of-way (saw very few freights) and an ingrained sense that cars are mainly for short distance intracity hops rather than longer city-to-city drives. Many of our trains paralleled nice highways, but they were not crowded like American ones, though the trains were. In most cities there were streetcars and buses immediately outside the train station for that "last mile" solution, though people didn't seem adverse to walking a mile or so when necessary.
We have more money and at least as much tech savvy as the Europeans - those aren't issues. I think it's more of a mindset - we've become completely addicted to a door-to-door (or driveway-to-parking lot) lifestyle.
The caveat is that much of the US is waaaaaay larger and spread out than Europe. There, almost every trip is a "corridor".
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
Morgan LeFayThe four larger cities I would like to see reconnected via passenger rail do have bad traffic, in some cases very bad traffic. One of the cities is a fast growing metropolitan area. So, to accomodate traffic, the interstate through it is being expanded to six lanes. Despite going from four to six lanes, traffic jams miles long are still a reality. Hopefully, that metropolitan area's traffic congestion can be nipped in the bud by rail service.
Morgan, I admire your optimism, and mitigating congestion is certainly a worthwhile marketing tool to acquire customers (ridership).
But, the battle you are going to have to win first, is to convince your source of funding that bankrolling your dream is a better investment for them, offering a higher yield than if they put their money in a conventional investment opportunity. A task that is far easier said than done.
Additionally, getting freight railroads to share their right of way with you, will not be a cake walk.
Fred Frailey wrote an excellent piece in the November issue of Trains magazine that makes a frank assessment of the negative impact that Amtrak's "Empire Builder" has upon it's host railroads.
Good luck though, you'll need it.
Dickey Delta coming from the airlines understands that SERVICE departed from the airlines the same time they started charging their exhorbitant baggage fees which have only increased over the year. Now, if you are lucky you get a 4 oz. cup of beverage with 3 oz. of ice and a bag of pretzels as 'refreshments'. The airlines have become cattle haulers - cash the money and move the beef in ever shrinking seats. Dickey Delta is trying emulate his airline experience at ground level.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Convicted One I think that a good first step would be to familiarize yourself with the intimacies of why those "beautiful passenger trains" are no longer serving your town. A couple semesters of economics and a couple more of US history focused on the 20th century ought to bring you up to speed. In a nutshell, you're going to have to prove a viable business model to people who have money, and convince them that your idea is the best use of their money. If passenger rail could be profitable, investors would be knocking down the doors looking to find projects to fund. Spoiler alert, the first and last sentances of my reply really say the same thing.
I think that a good first step would be to familiarize yourself with the intimacies of why those "beautiful passenger trains" are no longer serving your town. A couple semesters of economics and a couple more of US history focused on the 20th century ought to bring you up to speed.
In a nutshell, you're going to have to prove a viable business model to people who have money, and convince them that your idea is the best use of their money.
If passenger rail could be profitable, investors would be knocking down the doors looking to find projects to fund.
Spoiler alert, the first and last sentances of my reply really say the same thing.
The four larger cities I would like to see reconnected via passenger rail do have bad traffic, in some cases very bad traffic. One of the cities is a fast growing metropolitan area. So, to accomodate traffic, the interstate through it is being expanded to six lanes. Despite going from four to six lanes, traffic jams miles long are still a reality. Hopefully, that metropolitan area's traffic congestion can be nipped in the bud by rail service.
Just a week ago (plus a couple of days) a friend of mine completed a trip on the Southwest Chief -- Amtrak trains 4 and 3 -- from Flagstaff, AZ to Mendota, IL and return. She had a wonderful time, met many fine people, and had excellent service from her car attendants and the dining staff.
Without any exception the passengers and crew were thrilled with the experience and thoroughly enjoyed train travel. However, there was a common complaint about the "direction" (or lack thereof) which Amtrak seems bent upon taking. The current CEO, Mr. Anderson, has acquired a nickname, "Dickie Delta", referencing his past association with the top job at Delta Airlines. Mr. Anderson is bringing much of his experience at Delta to Amtrak, and hopefully he will find it just isn't the same and doesn't work. The current efforts to either cut back on or completely eliminate meal service is a farce at best. The object, just as with almost everywhere else, is to cut costs by decreasing products served and eliminating crew members. It's hard for me with 34 years experience in a "Service Industry" to understand just exactly "how" eliminating "service" furthers the goals of providing a "service", but perhaps that's just my overly logical mind searching for "reason".
The current pricing structure in securing a roomette or a bedroom also seems to defy logic. What's wrong with the old way of establishing a cost for the product and staying with selling that product at the established cost? Why continually try to "bilk" the passenger for every last cent? Yes, it contributes to the bottom line, but it also irritates the very people you're trying to attract when they have to change a schedule.
I'm not sure whether or not I'm being optimistic, nostalgic, or engaging in wishful thinking, but in my opinion what's needed is a national comittment to actually "running" a passenger railroad, obtaining or laying dedicated tracks, securing adequate equipment, and actually "running" that railroad. Until such time as such a comittment is made, and Congress and politicians QUIT "playing" with Amtrak, we'll suffer the never-ending plethora of "changes" and "schemes" which currently exist.
greyhoundsI'll suggest three things you'll need to start with. Lawyers, guns, and money.
That's about as good an answer as any, .....well played!
Morgan LeFay Decades ago, my town was served by beautiful passenger trains. It has two active freight lines, but they are not extremely active as they see about 1 train each per hour. There are four cities in each cardinal direction (north, east, south, and west) that I think would be awesome to reestablish passenger rail service between. So, how would someone go about doing that?
Decades ago, my town was served by beautiful passenger trains. It has two active freight lines, but they are not extremely active as they see about 1 train each per hour. There are four cities in each cardinal direction (north, east, south, and west) that I think would be awesome to reestablish passenger rail service between. So, how would someone go about doing that?
PJS1In the case of the Texas Central Railway, while there are some real estate development opportunities near the proposed Dallas station and maybe near the north Houston station, the opportunities in between Dallas and Houston would appear to be few and far between.
It's not the same model. Texas Central will be operating at close to twice the speed of Brightline on a grade seperated, brand new, right of way. The speed difference alone I believe will attract more passengers to Texas Central than if it ran 125 mph. Texas Central has also not ruled out completely one intermediate stop, they only stated they do not want to add a LOT more stops as it will impact average point to point speed which they feel they need to keep high to be more competitive. Additionally, we might also see Texas Central complete for mail contracts, express cargo and the like that the Airlines also fly..........too early to tell there.
I think you hit the nail on the head about bright line. Real estate opportunities couple with a dense population and the highway infrastructure, streched to the limit created an opportunity for higher speed rail to make an impact. The question become's can bright line become sustainable? Brightline will benefit from Florida being a tourist destination. Miami international airport, Ft Lauderdale international airport, Palm Beach international, will provide connecting traffic to the ports in South Florida and Port Canaveral to Disney world in Orlando. Bright line has already made an impact on local commuters between West Palm Beach and South Florida. It's will increase it's impact when the line is opened north to Melbourne, Struat and Port Staint Lucie all funneling traffic north and south on I 95.
It might not work in other areas, who knows, but it has a shot in Florida.
If the way forward for any new passenger rail projects ala Bright Line is as an appendage to real estate development, what real estate projects are envisioned for the California High Speed Rail Project? Who would do the developements? And who would own them?
In the case of the Texas Central Railway, while there are some real estate development opportunities near the proposed Dallas station and maybe near the north Houston station, the opportunities in between Dallas and Houston would appear to be few and far between.
I have the impression that Bright Line is serving a very dense corridor between Miami and West Palm Beach with numerous opportunities for real estate development. But I could be wrong on all three scores. Would not be the first time.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
SD70Dude As you stated, the bright line is based on land development. As were many railroads during the early expansion n the 19 the century. As most have stated here the process will require lots of money. The question, how to re establish passenger rail. The only working model we have so far is bright line. Thier plan to leverage rail service around an asset they own, real estate. This is a real world answer to the question, is it not? Will it work, is the question. Just saying. BaltACD ROBERT WILLISON Follow the bright line model. They have re-establish passenger service on the FEC in a serious manner, that hasn't seen a regularly scheduled train since 1963. They definitely must have good lawyer, plus the governor on thier side. Brightline is land speculation project that was started by the FEC's ownership about a decade ago. Since FEC's ownership started the project, they didn't have to have at contentious fight over trackage rights from Miami to WPB. Their payoff will not be in the passengers that they handle but in the real estate appreciation that happens when the get their leg from WPB to Orlando completed and operational. Since the original start of the project both FEC and the Project itself have changed ownership hands. If you are following the Brightline model, you better own land that you want to open up to development and use passenger operation as a means to bring people to the property. A 21st century version of the "streetcar suburb". Worked back then, seems to be working now. Very fitting as the the FEC was originally built as part of Henry Flagler's scheme to develop south Florida.
BaltACD ROBERT WILLISON Follow the bright line model. They have re-establish passenger service on the FEC in a serious manner, that hasn't seen a regularly scheduled train since 1963. They definitely must have good lawyer, plus the governor on thier side. Brightline is land speculation project that was started by the FEC's ownership about a decade ago. Since FEC's ownership started the project, they didn't have to have at contentious fight over trackage rights from Miami to WPB. Their payoff will not be in the passengers that they handle but in the real estate appreciation that happens when the get their leg from WPB to Orlando completed and operational. Since the original start of the project both FEC and the Project itself have changed ownership hands. If you are following the Brightline model, you better own land that you want to open up to development and use passenger operation as a means to bring people to the property.
ROBERT WILLISON Follow the bright line model. They have re-establish passenger service on the FEC in a serious manner, that hasn't seen a regularly scheduled train since 1963. They definitely must have good lawyer, plus the governor on thier side.
Brightline is land speculation project that was started by the FEC's ownership about a decade ago. Since FEC's ownership started the project, they didn't have to have at contentious fight over trackage rights from Miami to WPB. Their payoff will not be in the passengers that they handle but in the real estate appreciation that happens when the get their leg from WPB to Orlando completed and operational.
Since the original start of the project both FEC and the Project itself have changed ownership hands.
If you are following the Brightline model, you better own land that you want to open up to development and use passenger operation as a means to bring people to the property.
A 21st century version of the "streetcar suburb".
Worked back then, seems to be working now.
Very fitting as the the FEC was originally built as part of Henry Flagler's scheme to develop south Florida.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
ROBERT WILLISONFollow the bright line model. They have re-establish passenger service on the FEC in a serious manner, that hasn't seen a regularly scheduled train since 1963. They definitely must have good lawyer, plus the governor on thier side.
Follow the bright line model. They have re-establish passenger service on the FEC in a serious manner, that hasn't seen a regularly scheduled train since 1963. They definitely must have good lawyer, plus the governor on thier side.
PNWRMNM Firelock76 I don't know, Al Capone once said "An honest politician is one who when he's bought, STAYS bought!" Firelock, To the best of my knowledge this statement was first uttered by either Commodore Vanderbilt or Jay Gould after they had both plied most of the legislators of New York state with cash. Mac
Firelock76 I don't know, Al Capone once said "An honest politician is one who when he's bought, STAYS bought!"
I don't know, Al Capone once said "An honest politician is one who when he's bought, STAYS bought!"
Firelock,
To the best of my knowledge this statement was first uttered by either Commodore Vanderbilt or Jay Gould after they had both plied most of the legislators of New York state with cash.
Mac
OK then, how about a quote from John Dillinger?
"Never trust an automatic or a D.A.'s deal!"
And I'll give the last word to Sam Giancana. Sitting in a seafood restaurant he pointed to a stuffed swordfish hanging on the wall and said...
"You see that fish? If he'd kept his mouth shut he wouldn't have got caught!"
Miningman...and opportunists that sue you because they slipped and fell and their modelling career was ruined.
And here all along I thought modeling was just a hobby!
To reestablish passenger service because it's "Awsome"?
I'll suggest three things you'll need to start with. Lawyers, guns, and money.
Well the fun just starts with the politicians... there are the inspectors, the permit people, the unions, the waste disposal guys (and you know who runs those guys), various contractors and opportunists that sue you because they slipped and fell and their modelling career was ruined.
Then you need the politicians again to make some of this go away.
jeffhergert zardoz BaltACD ....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints.... I'm shocked! Just shocked by your assertion that our fine politicians can be bought. Collude with a foreign power, lie when they speak, ignore the wishes of the people, yes; but be bought?!? No way! Of course you can't buy politicians. But you can rent them. Jeff
zardoz BaltACD ....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints.... I'm shocked! Just shocked by your assertion that our fine politicians can be bought. Collude with a foreign power, lie when they speak, ignore the wishes of the people, yes; but be bought?!? No way!
BaltACD ....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints....
I'm shocked! Just shocked by your assertion that our fine politicians can be bought. Collude with a foreign power, lie when they speak, ignore the wishes of the people, yes; but be bought?!? No way!
Of course you can't buy politicians. But you can rent them.
Jeff
BaltACD zardoz BaltACD ....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints.... I'm shocked! Just shocked by your assertion that our fine politicians can be bought. Collude with a foreign power, lie when they speak, ignore the wishes of the people, yes; but be bought?!? No way!
....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM
Just sub trains in for anything factory related and you will be pretty close.
zardozBaltACD ....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints.... I'm shocked! Just shocked by your assertion that our fine politicians can be bought. Collude with a foreign power, lie when they speak, ignore the wishes of the people, yes; but be bought?!? No way!
BaltACD....1st buy politicians to support your viewpoints....
SD70Dude One train per hour per line is pretty darn busy by freight railroad standards. If that is the case you will almost certainly have to build additional track capacity. What is the population of each city in this area, and does any transit/public transportation service already exist between them? If so, what are it's ridership figures?
One train per hour per line is pretty darn busy by freight railroad standards. If that is the case you will almost certainly have to build additional track capacity.
What is the population of each city in this area, and does any transit/public transportation service already exist between them? If so, what are it's ridership figures?
Alternative here is there are two routes you can get one railroad to shift some of their trains to another route. I got a good chuckle at CP insisting they need to add more rail capacity for adding just one additional Amtrak frequency on Chicago to Twin Cities. At the time CP had two mostly seperate underutilized Twin City to Chicago routes..........they can't shift traffic to another route? Yeah right.
CP still has two Chicago to Twin Cities routes they converge between La Crosse and St. Paul but is that such a huge distance for one additional passenger train? I find it difficult to believe but maybe they have a case.....beats me.
Milwaukee to Chicago proposal for train frequency increase (beyond 10 roundtrips) has the CP moving some of their trains over to one of the Milwaukee to Chicago ex-C&NW mains. As it is for the 3 additional round trips to get to 10 the plan is to pay for CTC through the Milwaukee passenger depot (remote dispatching?) and develop a route via Muskego Yard for freight trains to bypass the depot area all together using a route via the Yard that the DOT would pay to add CTC too.
That last improvement in my mind HAS to be faster than routing freights through the extremely sharp curve into the Amtrak depot, one wonders why the CP didn't develope and pay for it on their own.......my feeling is they want to sell that Muskego Yard real estate for big bucks instead and keeping tracks that run through the center of it would lower the price they could otherwise get.
Anyhow, wanted to mention the alternatives.
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