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Train 188 Tragic Accident – What is the Complete Story? Locked

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 6:50 AM

243129
VOLKER LANDWEHR For Amtrak #501 it waits to be seen. I trust NTSB more than a biased ex-engineer.

Yes and you also trusted a picture of the Acela control stand that you gleaned from the internet which was totally inaccurate.

But here you used this again to belittle me as I don't agree with you. As I said before it is your preferred method.

You must be a very fragile person to have your feelings hurt so easily. The message is to be careful of who you trust. The NTSB like it or not is influenced by 'politics'.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, September 27, 2018 7:20 AM

243129

 

 
243129
VOLKER LANDWEHR For Amtrak #501 it waits to be seen. I trust NTSB more than a biased ex-engineer.

 

Yes and you also trusted a picture of the Acela control stand that you gleaned from the internet which was totally inaccurate.

But here you used this again to belittle me as I don't agree with you. As I said before it is your preferred method.

You must be a very fragile person to have your feelings hurt so easily. The message is to be careful of who you trust. The NTSB like it or not is influenced by 'politics'.

 

This is funny. You keep railing on about a mislabeled control stand, while in the other thread, you continually deny that you have no idea of the timeline history of the German railway system.  You may think the NTSB is influenced by politics but we wonder what your angle is on this.  It's not safety or you would have done something about it in your 51 working years.  I think you like armchair quarterbacking because now that you're retired, you can't pontifcate in the crew room and drive all the other crews crazy.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:23 AM

TO: 243129    

I have noticed that many folks on here have tried to be helpful, make suggestions.  Part of the process of helping is to offer constructive criticism.  You rejected all of that from RR people such as Zugmann and Balt, among others.  You rejected everything from non-railroaders such as CSX, Backshop, Volker, myself and others, calling it sniping and then engaging in ad hominem attacks.  Your tone was so defensive and dismissive that we all started taking potshots, a very unproductive and silly outcome.  You accuse others of not answering your questions, which usually are in the form of demands.  You seem to forget that YOU are the one who came on here apparently wanting to spread the word about Amtrak negligence and wondering how to inform/warn a larger audience.  When anyone inquired as to specifics of your plan, you refused to provide this, even though you said you do not seek money. When you make preposterous statements about the reasons why Germany's rail lines can handle higher speed, you dismissed the corrections provided by our Deutsche Bahn expert.  As an amateur very familiar first-hand with DB and history, I concur with him.  You attacked one or two very gentle, older forum members.  It goes on and on.  

You accuse me and others of running away.  Perhaps that is how you spoke with peers and superiors at Amtrak and elsewhere. I have chosen to ignore your demands because discussions with someone as closed off as you appear to be are impossible and a waste of time.

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Posted by Backshop on Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:29 AM

Whatever happened to the OP?

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 27, 2018 10:03 AM

243129
Yes and you also trusted a picture of the Acela control stand that you gleaned from the internet which was totally inaccurate.

That happens when using the internet. But at least the throttle was right if I remember videos correctly. I don't trust everything and everybody so I checked ASC-64 videos and the throttle was on the left hand side. That was the question to be answered.

I gave you the chance to correct the wrong photo again, but...........
I'm always trying to learn.

243129
ut here you used this again to belittle me as I don't agree with you. As I said before it is your preferred method. You must be a very fragile person to have your feelings hurt so easily. The message is to be careful of who you trust. The NTSB like it or not is influenced by 'politics'.

My feelings are not hurt easily but if someone uses this as tactics when he isn't agreed with or runs out of arguments I think it is worth mentioning because it doesn't work.

I usually try to check information from internet and I did with the control desk too. What was of most interest was OK. But you can still correct me.

NTSB needs to be influence by politics as transportation safety is partly a political goal. That the have requested PTC for years is OK, see all the accidents that could have prevented with it.

So yes, I trust them more than you.
Regards, Volker

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:07 PM

VOLKER LANDWEHR
I gave you the chance to correct the wrong photo again, but........... I'm always trying to learn.

The video you posted was minus the explanation of the labels. The original video you posted had the explanations.

VOLKER LANDWEHR
My feelings are not hurt easily but if someone uses this as tactics when he isn't agreed with or runs out of arguments I think it is worth mentioning because it doesn't work.

Where do I run out of arguments? As I said before, you made yourself look bad, not me.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:13 PM

243129

 

 
243129

 

 
BaltACD

 

 
243129
 
cx500
Being "ordered" is not what was happening, nor is it what we are claiming. 

Talk to BaltAcd about that .

 

Never learned the finer points of leadership have you?

 

 

 

Again the imperious attitude surfaces. Remember that as a dispatcher you sat at a desk not a throne.

Did you or did you not post on another thread that your father, who was a superintendent, 'instructed' an engineer to ignore timetable speeds in order to get the train in on time ?

 

 

 

Seeing as how you are back Balt I have a question for you. See above.

 

Balt?

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:18 PM

Backshop
in the other thread, you continually deny that you have no idea of the timeline history of the German railway system.

Where do I say that?

Backshop
You may think the NTSB is influenced by politics but we wonder what your angle is on this. It's not safety or you would have done something about it in your 51 working years.

My "angle" is for a safe efficient railroad with well trained operations employees.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:21 PM

243129

 

 
charlie hebdo
He's never given any answer to what is wrong or what he proposes other than, "poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision. A(nother) disaster waiting to happen."

 

Poor vetting, poor training, poor supervision are indeed contributory factors to both the #188 and #501 disasters. What are your observations as to the causes?

What proposals I have will not be given to you to enhance your minimal knowledge of railroad operations. I have attempted to effect change and will continue to do so.

 

 
charlie hebdo
Judging from some of his comments, it appears what he really wants is to bring back fireman (call them jr. engineers?) and have engineers control their vetting, training and supervision: a "plan" with many flaws, but which most of us could easily envision

 

Bringing the fireman back will not happen.  Engineer candidates should be hired from within. An oversight committee composed of veteran operations personnel should be formed to monitor the procedure.

You level much criticism at me so here is your chance to shine. Point out these "flaws" that you "easily envision".

 

 

charlie?

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:23 PM

charlie hebdo
"Hired from within" and "oversight committee of veteran operations personnel" and "monitor the procedure" is simply Newspeak for promoting cabmen, aka, firemen, based on the rcommendations of the senior engineers, who would then supervise them. If you cannot see what can wrong with that, then that's your issue.

So charlie, tell us ...please.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:33 PM

charlie hebdo

TO: 243129    

I have noticed that many folks on here have tried to be helpful, make suggestions.  Part of the process of helping is to offer constructive criticism.  You rejected all of that from RR people such as Zugmann and Balt, among others.  You rejected everything from non-railroaders such as CSX, Backshop, Volker, myself and others, calling it sniping and then engaging in ad hominem attacks.  Your tone was so defensive and dismissive that we all started taking potshots, a very unproductive and silly outcome.  You accuse others of not answering your questions, which usually are in the form of demands.  You seem to forget that YOU are the one who came on here apparently wanting to spread the word about Amtrak negligence and wondering how to inform/warn a larger audience.  When anyone inquired as to specifics of your plan, you refused to provide this, even though you said you do not seek money. When you make preposterous statements about the reasons why Germany's rail lines can handle higher speed, you dismissed the corrections provided by our Deutsche Bahn expert.  As an amateur very familiar first-hand with DB and history, I concur with him.  You attacked one or two very gentle, older forum members.  It goes on and on.  

You accuse me and others of running away.  Perhaps that is how you spoke with peers and superiors at Amtrak and elsewhere. I have chosen to ignore your demands because discussions with someone as closed off as you appear to be are impossible and a waste of time.

 

All the above for damage control for not being able to qualify your allegations or submit your opinion when asked. You were challenged and like your amigo Balt, you have run when confronted.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 6:25 PM

243129

 

 
charlie hebdo

TO: 243129    

I have noticed that many folks on here have tried to be helpful, make suggestions.  Part of the process of helping is to offer constructive criticism.  You rejected all of that from RR people such as Zugmann and Balt, among others.  You rejected everything from non-railroaders such as CSX, Backshop, Volker, myself and others, calling it sniping and then engaging in ad hominem attacks.  Your tone was so defensive and dismissive that we all started taking potshots, a very unproductive and silly outcome.  You accuse others of not answering your questions, which usually are in the form of demands.  You seem to forget that YOU are the one who came on here apparently wanting to spread the word about Amtrak negligence and wondering how to inform/warn a larger audience.  When anyone inquired as to specifics of your plan, you refused to provide this, even though you said you do not seek money. When you make preposterous statements about the reasons why Germany's rail lines can handle higher speed, you dismissed the corrections provided by our Deutsche Bahn expert.  As an amateur very familiar first-hand with DB and history, I concur with him.  You attacked one or two very gentle, older forum members.  It goes on and on.  

You accuse me and others of running away.  Perhaps that is how you spoke with peers and superiors at Amtrak and elsewhere. I have chosen to ignore your demands because discussions with someone as closed off as you appear to be are impossible and a waste of time.

 

 

 

All the above for damage control for not being able to qualify your allegations or submit your opinion when asked. You were challenged and like your amigo Balt, you have run when confronted. 

B. S. ALERT. here we go again Time  to shut this TROLL down. IMHO.

Now for another dismissive put down.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 27, 2018 7:37 PM

243129

What does B.S. stand for? It's not an acronym for a dirty word is it ?Ick!

Like you never heard or spoke profanity in a career on the railroad.

243129

What have you contributed to this thread?

He's attempting to return the forum to its one-time status as a place of cordial thought and reasoning, instead of whatever this is (note how I am not using profanity).

243129

Did you used to 'run to the principal's office' in grammar school?

I'll bet you did...

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 7:47 PM

SD70Dude
Like you never heard or spoke profanity in a career on the railroad.

Yes but I was told (by a moderator) that even acronyms were not allowed.

SD70Dude
He's attempting to return the forum to its one-time status as a place of cordial thought and reasoning, instead of whatever this is (note how I am not using profanity).

Why is he a moderator? I see no contributions from him on this thread.

 

Did you used to 'run to the principal's office' in grammar school?

 No I just took a page from Electroliners 'book'. They don't have sarcasm in Canada eh?

He pokes his nose into a thread he does not contribute to and calls for my banning? He has little else going on in his life evidently.

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:07 PM

243129

He pokes his nose into a thread he does not contribute to and calls for my banning? He has little else going on in his life evidently.

You obviously have a great deal of things going on...

FYI that's called sarcasm.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:10 PM

SD70Dude

 

 
243129

He pokes his nose into a thread he does not contribute to and calls for my banning? He has little else going on in his life evidently.

 

 

You obviously have a great deal of things going on...

FYI that's called sarcasm.

 

FYI it can't be sarcasm if it is true.

 

O.K. I've had enough of you. That's not sarcasm it's true.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:11 PM

243129
SD70Dude
243129

He pokes his nose into a thread he does not contribute to and calls for my banning? He has little else going on in his life evidently.

You obviously have a great deal of things going on...

FYI that's called sarcasm.

FYI it can't be sarcasm if it is true.

Ok so it's irony then.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by n012944 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:32 PM

243129

 

 
n012944
So you put a price on other people's safety, that is sad.....

 

Your assumption is ridiculous.

 

Nope, it isn't. It is spot on.

An "expensive model collector"

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:43 PM

243129

 

 
Backshop
I am contributing. I'm pointing out the fallacies of some of your arguments.

 

Where do you do that?

 
Backshop
You rail on and on about the shortcomings of Amtrak's hiring, training and supervision policies, yet you never tried to get into a position to change them.

I have tried to effect change to no avail. It's all here on this forum. Get yourself informed.

 

Did you try to effect change when you were working?

Johnny

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:44 PM

n012944

 

 
243129

 

 
n012944
So you put a price on other people's safety, that is sad.....

 

Your assumption is ridiculous.

 

 

 

Nope, it isn't. It is spot on.

 

Show me how it is "spot on".

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:45 PM

Deggesty

 

 
243129

 

 
Backshop
I am contributing. I'm pointing out the fallacies of some of your arguments.

 

Where do you do that?

 
Backshop
You rail on and on about the shortcomings of Amtrak's hiring, training and supervision policies, yet you never tried to get into a position to change them.

I have tried to effect change to no avail. It's all here on this forum. Get yourself informed.

 

 

 

Did you try to effect change when you were working?

 

 

Yes.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:48 PM

n012944

 

 
243129

 

 
Backshop

So 243129, why didn't you ever go into management?

 

 

 

Not enough money.

 

 

 

 

So you put a price on other people's safety, that is sad.....

 

Proof that your 'assumption' is ridiculous.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:51 PM

Over 6500 posts and 243129 can not accept that  his quest  is  for naught. Just like Don Quixote's tilting at windmills, he keeps trying. Makes me think of the Energizer Bunny. But he is not as cute.

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:54 PM

243129

 

 
Backshop
I am contributing. I'm pointing out the fallacies of some of your arguments.

 

Where do you do that?

 
Backshop
You rail on and on about the shortcomings of Amtrak's hiring, training and supervision policies, yet you never tried to get into a position to change them.

I have tried to effect change to no avail. It's all here on this forum. Get yourself informed.

 

Did you try to effect change while you were wroking?

Johnny

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:56 PM

Electroliner 1935

Over 6500 posts and 243129 can not accept that  his quest  is  for naught. Just like Don Quixote's tilting at windmills, he keeps trying. Makes me think of the Energizer Bunny. But he is not as cute.

 

6500posts??? Where?

My "quest is for naught"? Please explain.

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Posted by 243129 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 8:59 PM

Deggesty

 

 
243129

 

 
Backshop
I am contributing. I'm pointing out the fallacies of some of your arguments.

 

Where do you do that?

 
Backshop
You rail on and on about the shortcomings of Amtrak's hiring, training and supervision policies, yet you never tried to get into a position to change them.

I have tried to effect change to no avail. It's all here on this forum. Get yourself informed.

 

 

 

Did you try to effect change while you were wroking?

 

 

Scroll back 6 posts for the answer

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:00 PM

Deleted

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:04 PM

243129

6500posts??? Where?

Probably the sum of all the posts on all these Amtrak accident threads.

And I for one think that the Energizer bunny would make an excellent Engineer, he would never fall asleep!   No need for alerters with good old 'Pink Fuzz' at the throttle!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:24 PM

243129

 

 
Electroliner 1935

Over 6500 posts and 243129 can not accept that  his quest  is  for naught. Just like Don Quixote's tilting at windmills, he keeps trying. Makes me think of the Energizer Bunny. But he is not as cute.

 

 

 

6500posts??? Where?

My "quest is for naught"? Please explain.

t

On the PASSENGER PAGE. Under Views,  is the number 6744 after the TRAIN 188 TRAGIC ACCIDENT.

Your quest is for naught in my opinion and most of the others trying to tell  you what you don't  want to, or will not accept.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, September 27, 2018 9:39 PM

Electroliner 1935
Your quest is for naught in my opinion and most of the others trying to tell  you what you don't  want to, or will not accept.

He can't help it.  He was made that way in the East New Haven shops.

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