Brightline ridership

[Brian_Tampa]

The video was from January 12, one day before initial service began. I believe this video shows the inside of the media train that ran that day. That would explain the many empty seats.

[MidlandMike]

Video of the Brightline train shows it is pretty empy.

I wonder if the bond sales will go better now that the lawsuits have been dismissed?

[blue streak 1]

Federal judge tosses 2 law suits against  Brightline .   Lost count but is this the present last of lawsuits against Brightline ?  Bond sales have been extended to July 1.  The video was interesting.  One complaint.  The grab bars between cars are only on right side exiting car and not like older passenger cars of the past on both sides. 

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/growth/2018/12/25/indian-river-lawsuit-dismissed/2411193002/

 

[CMStPnP]

^^^^ Good news, I really do hope they can succeed on the rail operations alone because the best reform for Amtrak is real competition that makes it look horrible in comparison to Congress.

[blue streak 1]

Brightline November ridership up 35%+ over October ridership.  Revenue up almost 50%.

https://emma.msrb.org/ER1172824-ER916724-ER1317273.pdf

 

[ROBERT WILLISON]

Bright line opening maimicentral will boost ridership. Not only on the cummter front. But with all the international flights into Mia, it will make a logical and easy connection to the gold coast.

[BaltACD]

Brightline to begint service to Miami on May 19.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/destinations/2018/05/11/brightline-trains-connect-miami-west-palm-beach/603433002/

[Overmod]

zugmann

I can't take credit for that term.

It's British, and refers to something a bit different from what's been discussed for service 'enhancements' to Brightline.

It initially referred to "improving" the Underground system in the London area (which uses a map with various colored lines, as done with several systems in the States now) by making lines with crayon of the appropriate color to connect up the desired service ... whether or not there might be some cost, or technical complexity, or other reason, why actually building the route might be difficult or inadvisable.  Drawing the line is usually followed by some flavor of 'if you build it they will come'.

In the case of the Brightline 'northern expansion', the business model is in place, and I'm reasonably sure that if a case can be made for it eventually, once the existing development plan has been demonstrated effective and the existing financial commitments are satisfied (or at least sterilized) the service can be expanded in many, perhaps most, of the ways described.   Whether that's the best use of available capital is another matter, but at least it's not pie-in-the-sky let's run Brightline north of Atlanta, or up through Pittsfield, because passengers will be there eventually.

[zugmann]

CMStPnP

What happened to "crayonista"?.......I like that term better.....lol.

I can't take credit for that term.  You must be thinking of someone else.

[CMStPnP]

zugmann

Isn't that referred to as "moving the goalposts"?

What happened to "crayonista"?.......I like that term better.....lol.     

It would be a significant moving of the goal posts because wouldn't it make them a interstate transportation company?

[zugmann]

CMStPnP

I suspect though if they ever implement Jacksonville to Miami - that will probably rival Orlando to Miami in revenue generated. One could see connecting bus service in Jacksonville over the state line to the Army post at Ft. Stewart and to downtown Savannah, GA as well.

Isn't that referred to as "moving the goalposts"?

[CMStPnP]

I agree with what is stated in the article.    Until the service to Orlando starts you really cannot judge profitability.    The business model was for service to Orlando and one would think the company factored in that it would not reach break even until at least Orlando was served.     They have to be losing their financial shirts though with all the delays they hit along the way.    I am sure they expected Orlando to be up and running at least 2 years earlier than it is now planned.

I suspect though if they ever implement Jacksonville to Miami - that will probably rival Orlando to Miami in revenue generated.     One could see connecting bus service in Jacksonville over the state line to the Army post at Ft. Stewart and to downtown Savannah, GA as well.

[Brian_Tampa]

PB Post has a report out today showing about 50 riders per train on average. They sampled 44 random trips at all times of the day for every day of the week. I expect this number to at least double initially once Miami opens in a few weeks. 

https://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/business/brightline-trains-look-empty-post-counts-how-many-were-board/WeNuCY7pgphQYy7Ywv6jFO/

 

[chrsjrcj]

HSR2020

" Trains seat 250, have been running about 200 most trips."

I find it hard to believe that most trains are running with 200 passengers. They run throughout the day, so the mid-day trains should have significantly fewer passengers than the commute hour trains. And if they were getting that many riders, why say that "ridership has been three times what we expected", you could just say how many were actually riding.

 

 

I've taken about 6 round trips on Brightline, and the highest count I've seen is 150 people. This was during the Palm Beach boat show.

I had been following the seat availability on their website since opening, and the highest ridership numbers have been during the midday hours and weekend. Very few people during the actual commuter hours. I think this is because of the few intermediate stops, unlike Tri-Rail (which in my experience sometimes has standing room only during their rush hour trains). 

[n012944]

BaltACD

 

 

Deggesty

As to highways, in Virginia, you are considered to be driving recklessly if you exceed 80 mph--and the penalties are much higher than those assessed if you are only "speeding."

 

 

Left lane bandits are now on the police 'radar'.

Despite the linked article's $250 fine, my AAA Magazine reports that the fine is actually $100 and it is being enforced.

http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/left-lane-bandits-may-face-fine/article_0a8ec5b4-e8da-11e6-8ea6-c7bee0c4beb3.html

 

 

Indiana also goes after the left lane squatters.  It is up to a $500 fine there.  Florida needs such a law, it is a horrible issue down here.

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/26/new-indiana-law-requires-slower-drivers-move-right-lane/27959911/

[BaltACD]

Deggesty

As to highways, in Virginia, you are considered to be driving recklessly if you exceed 80 mph--and the penalties are much higher than those assessed if you are only "speeding."

Left lane bandits are now on the police 'radar'.

Despite the linked article's $250 fine, my AAA Magazine reports that the fine is actually $100 and it is being enforced.

http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/left-lane-bandits-may-face-fine/article_0a8ec5b4-e8da-11e6-8ea6-c7bee0c4beb3.html

[Overmod]

And the point so carefully not brought out in these stories -- correct me if I am wrong -- is that all of them were at relatively slow speed, close to stops or with the train running at a restricted speed.

If I were more paranoid I would suspect agenda spin.

[Overmod]

Statutory '25+ over' ... which in normal, civilized states is figured either from posted or percentile speed (IOW 70mph for post-1994 Interstates).  

Virginia quietly pretends 55 is a 'safe' maximum for modern cars on grade-separated roads ... this is what you get when your voters are stupid enough to elect sheister traffic attorneys to positions of legislative responsibility.  You can bet there are clever defenses against statutory reckless-driving citations ... for the right connections, at the right price.  

Pity because when I spent extensive time in Virginia in the mid-eighties I was struck by the common sense and humanity of most magistrates in local town courts.

[Deggesty]

As to highways, in Virginia, you are considered to be driving recklessly if you exceed 80 mph--and the penalties are much higher than those assessed if you are only "speeding."

[BaltACD]

Overmod

Once again with the fatality propaganda.  How many times in news coverage do the stories mention things like 'high-speed train' or 'upward of 70mph' ... but never a peep about how fast the train was going at the time the four casualties walked out in front ... and I believe all the 'victims' so far have been witting trespassers.

Adding the little OpLifesaver PSA message about watching out for those high-speed land missiles just puts the cherry on top.

Same idiots need to take a stroll across I-95 or the Florida Turnpike - where vehicles area also running in the neighborhood of 'high speed' 70 MPH.

Of course on highways, 70 MPH is not considered 'high speed' - only in railroad trespasser strikes.

I overlooked that the article referenced in the link is from Faux News!

[Overmod]

Once again with the fatality propaganda.  How many times in news coverage do the stories mention things like 'high-speed train' or 'upward of 70mph' ... but never a peep about how fast the train was going at the time the four casualties walked out in front ... and I believe all the 'victims' so far have been witting trespassers.

Adding the little OpLifesaver PSA message about watching out for those high-speed land missiles just puts the cherry on top.

[HSR2020]

" Trains seat 250, have been running about 200 most trips."

I find it hard to believe that most trains are running with 200 passengers. They run throughout the day, so the mid-day trains should have significantly fewer passengers than the commute hour trains. And if they were getting that many riders, why say that "ridership has been three times what we expected", you could just say how many were actually riding.

[rdamon]

Fourth fatality ..  Brightline vs. Pedestrian

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-high-speed-florida-train-kills-4th-person-since-launching-service/ar-AAvDKi1?ocid=spartanntp

[daveklepper]

I should have made it clear my description of a trip was from a message from a friend who did not wish his name posted.   I'm still 8000 miles away, but hope to report on my first electric train ride between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv when the line opens.  Apologies for not making that clear.

[PJS1]

ATSFGuy

 .....Can I see some interior shots? How often do the trains run? 

Hopefully this will help until Mr. Klepper responds.

https://gobrightline.com/trains

 

[CandOforprogress2]

Cant wait for pics

[ATSFGuy]

Daveklepper, 

How many cars are in a brightline trainset? Can I see some interior shots? How often do the trains run?

[daveklepper]

A Brightline trip report:  Wednesday, 03/28

   9:10 – Drive to Brightline, West Palm Beach.  Traffic is light.

  10:06 – Park in Brightline garage, third floor.  The area is a transit village with a vengeance; some styled like European villages but just don't quite seem right.  I cross the street to the station, buy a round-trip ticket, and pass a security check.  I didn't make a reservation last night and have missed the $15 Select fare bucket because of prior sales; the NARP discount takes it from $20 to $18 each way.  Tri-Rail fare is much lower.

  10:17 – Go to Select lounge; I partake of the munchies, coffee, soft drinks, water.  I can see the garage is open but apartments above it will open ‘fall 2018’.

  10:35 – Northbound train, yellow set, arrived on track 1.  Crowd streams into lounges; many will return on my train.

  10:50 – First boarding call, track 2, blue set.  On platform, Joseph Meade picks me up and chats; he’s ex-NJT along with seven or eight others in management and many other employees.  In Select, car #1, my seat 35 does not exist!  I am directed to seat 55.

  10:58 – Door alert.

  11:00 – We leave.  Some passengers are actually on business, with open laptops and other signs of work.  Joe offers a brief tour: look at seating, ‘cell phone lounge’ bench seat opposite toilet, features of toilet (great Dyson hand dryer integral with faucet), no doors between cars, full ADA access with wide aisles throughout.  PTC is installed, awaiting FRA approval.  Trains seat 250, have been running about 200 most trips.  I ask how long introductory fares will last, how high they will rise once Miami opens; he can’t answer.  I would not be shocked to see fares double.  Ride is a little rough at times.  Joe mentions on-board amenities, car cleaners.

  11:12 – I move to the handicapped seat, 67, for a full window view.

Grab shots of rail museum in Boca Raton, Goodyear blimp hangar in Pompano Beach, cars at grade crossings.

  11:30 – Oakland Park Post Office, slower.

  11:35 – Ft Lauderdale, five minutes early.  A bus terminal adjoins but is not connected; need to go upstairs, cross to station building, down to street, cross railroad to access it.

  11:45 – First boarding call for the same train set.

  11:54 – Door alert.  Six board right after this.

  11:56 – Mom and two small kids board, then we go a minute late as they waited for her.  We move out and the acceleration is almost like an MU!  I switch from seat 19 to seat 43 for better view, try the recline feature.

  12:04 – Pompano Beach.

  12:13 – Delray Beach.

  12:23 – Lantana Post Office.

  12:32 – West Palm Beach, three early.  We ran track 2 both ways.  I walk a few blocks around the station area, noting construction.

  12:55 – Leave, 41 minutes home; traffic is mostly light.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

CandOforprogress2

Can we just have slow speed service to Miami from JAX on the FEC main?

Considering that there hasn't been any service on that line since 1968, I find that highly unlikely.  FEC is mostly single-track so squeezing in a passenger schedule on a fairly busy freight line is problematic at best.