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Illinois state supported trains in trouble ?

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Illinois state supported trains in trouble ?
Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, June 29, 2017 5:51 PM

Today ( Thursday ) heard interview with Comptroller of state. She said that she may have to pull all payments of amounts owed to various creditors.  That is if the legislature and governor cannot pass a budget by tomorrow evening. State has had no budget for two years  Has Amtrak been carrying the state so far ?  If so can they continue doing so ?   We know the consequences if Amtrak can no longer carry the state.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, June 29, 2017 6:41 PM

Illinois is now more than $250 Billion in arrears with just pension fund payments and that is without the state budget deficit.    Every rating agency in the United States is about to rate their current bonds as junk bonds.    They have no other choice then another massive tax increase and this time it will be property taxes which is sure to have some voter backlash.

My property taxes have increased 20% in the last 2-3 years and still, financially as far as state taxes go.......I am happy.  :)

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, June 29, 2017 9:37 PM

CMStPnP

Illinois is now more than $250 Billion in arrears with just pension fund payments and that is without the state budget deficit.    Every rating agency in the United States is about to rate their current bonds as junk bonds.    They have no other choice then another massive tax increase and this time it will be property taxes which is sure to have some voter backlash.

My property taxes have increased 20% in the last 2-3 years and still, financially as far as state taxes go.......I am happy.  :)

 

The state's finances have been a mess for years because both parties skipped funding pensions to balance budgets.  It became far worse with the current governor's election in 2014.  He won't work with either  party in the legislature, won't submit a budget unless they pass his union-busting law.  Former GOP governors despise him. Some school districts won't open in the fall.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, June 30, 2017 12:56 AM

Good luck Quad Cities train.

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Posted by Victrola1 on Friday, June 30, 2017 10:14 AM

What to do with a broken Illinois: Dissolve the Land of Lincoln

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-dissolving-illinois-kass-met-20170620-column.html

A Chicago Tribune columnist has proposed a modest soluton to the Illinois problem. Somebody take Chicago, please. 

The article includes a map of what goes to surronding states. Iowa extends eastward. 

If implemented, there will be no Cornbelt Rocket to the Mississippi River. The State of Iowa has wanted no part of funding the Cornbelt Rocket. For that matter, funding for the Zephyrs to Quincy would doubtless be axed. 

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, June 30, 2017 12:01 PM

Don't get me started about John Kass.  He expects politics to be squeaky clean and seems to stand somewhere to the right of the Republican party.  It's also hard to take a columnist seriously who each month presents an "award" to a politico who he publicly flips off (actually a Greek gesture that means the same thing).

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Posted by conrailman on Friday, June 30, 2017 1:49 PM

Start Sat night No More Powerball or Mega Million Lottery in State until they get budget.Sad

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Posted by Brian Schmidt on Friday, June 30, 2017 3:05 PM

If this thread doesn't stay on track, it will be deleted.

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, June 30, 2017 6:33 PM

Brian Schmidt

If this thread doesn't stay on track, it will be deleted.

 

The track is political.  The entire future of the proposed Quad Cities train and the existing State-supported services are threatened/intertwined with the political impasse in Springfield. A bipartisan temporary fix is possibly coming soon.

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Posted by Victrola1 on Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:24 PM

There are more oblicgations to be paid than revenue coming in. Passenger rail service is likely to be one the first items cut. 

The courts will get involved. Do you make medicaid payments, or Amtrak payments. Do you pay bond interest, or pay Amtrak. 

Assume Illinois gets its fiscal house in order. Will there still be money to pay for passenger rail. If so, to where? It is doubtful there will be a Cornbelt Rocket to Moline for a long time, if at all. 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, July 1, 2017 8:58 PM

I don't think they will cut the Amtrak trains or Metra trains.  

I think the State will go as far as it can with austerity and either cut the pension obligation or ask for a Federal bailout.    I don't think the Treasury Dept will let a State go insolvent, especially with like 12 other states in the same boat as illinois (yup, California is on the list).    Though we'll have to wait and see.    It would be the domino theory revisited if they did and it would cause a massive crisis in the state bond market that might spread financial contagion..........so there is risk if Treasury does nothing here.    That is my question will the Feds intervene financially or let financial nature take it's course?

My guess is they intervene.   I wish they would let the state sink though because each time the Feds intervene in cases like this........they reward the political behavior that led to this point.

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Posted by Victrola1 on Saturday, July 1, 2017 9:17 PM

When a train is government subsidized, it is a political issue. The feds may well let Illinois sink. As Illinois goes under, the first thrown overboard is likely to be state subsidized intercity passenger trains. 

The real contest maybe METRA communter services. I am not knowledgeable on how METRA is funded. The retention of commuter service will be arguably more importan that trains to St. Louis, Quincy and Carbondale. 

A man may walk on Mars before the Cornbelt Rocket returns to Moline. 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, July 1, 2017 9:49 PM

When the City of Detroit was teetering on bankruptcy, the State of Michigan bailed them out some, and a federal judge encouraged the debtors to negotiate lower payments, including city retirees who agreed to reduced pensions.  The city avoided full bankruptcy.  Nevertheless, during the campaign, then-candidate Trump said he would have just let Detroit go bankrupt.  This may give some indication of how the feds would deal with a state in financial crisis.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 2:49 AM

MidlandMike

When the City of Detroit was teetering on bankruptcy, the State of Michigan bailed them out some, and a federal judge encouraged the debtors to negotiate lower payments, including city retirees who agreed to reduced pensions.  The city avoided full bankruptcy.  Nevertheless, during the campaign, then-candidate Trump said he would have just let Detroit go bankrupt.  This may give some indication of how the feds would deal with a state in financial crisis.

As we are reminded again and again, what folks say on the campaign trail is usually not the same as what they do in office when faced with the repercussions of their actions.     If Illinois collapses, so do California and New York state (all three are in the same boat).    Which also happen to be among the three largest states on the electoral map.

If Trump can dramattically grow the Economy the next few years the issues above will be not as great because the returns on the lower amount of money invested will be above average and makeup for some of the principal missing from the unfunded pensions.     So that "Hail Mary" play if it comes about will give all three states some breathing room.    Agree though that unfortunately all three states are in the hole so badly they will have to cut pensions of existing and future pensioners to make up for lost time as well as dramattically raise taxes.

We are also unfortunately paying for lost years of Economic growth because some in government listened to the bozo Economists that insisted 1 to 1.5% growth is the new normal.    When you listen to people like that for 10-12 years it really sucks out a lot of potential value and compounding from your 401k plan, retirement pension, retirement savings, etc.     Causing otherwise sane people to openly question if stock plans are worth it.     We can never get those lost returns back.....which is sad as well.

 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 7:23 AM

CMStPnP
We are also unfortunately paying for lost years of Economic growth because some in government listened to the bozo Economists that insisted 1 to 1.5% growth is the new normal.  

Your statement does not correspond with reality, never that low, except in Drumpf's tweets.  Starting in 2010, the GDP growth rates were: 2.5%, 1.6%, 2.2%, 1.7%, 2.4%, 2.6% and 1.6% = average 2.1%.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 11:09 AM

schlimm

 

 
CMStPnP
We are also unfortunately paying for lost years of Economic growth because some in government listened to the bozo Economists that insisted 1 to 1.5% growth is the new normal.  

 

Your statement does not correspond with reality, never that low, except in Drumpf's tweets.  Starting in 2010, the GDP growth rates were: 2.5%, 1.6%, 2.2%, 1.7%, 2.4%, 2.6% and 1.6% = average 2.1%.

Exactly the plan, politically when you establish a low benchmark like 1 to 1.5% you can point to the above as an outstanding success.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 12:11 PM

Victrola1

When a train is government subsidized, it is a political issue. 

What about Air, Waterways, expressways, rural roads, rural telephone, rural electricity, agriculture, mining, etc ?  Don't just paint rail !

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Posted by PJS1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 12:59 PM

schlimm
  

....... Starting in 2010, the GDP growth rates were: 2.5%, 1.6%, 2.2%, 1.7%, 2.4%, 2.6% and 1.6% = average 2.1%. 

These are national GDP changes, as per the Bureau of Economic Analysis, adjusted for 2009 constant dollars, which takes out inflation.  They are the real growth rates as opposed to the nominal growth rates, which were noticeably higher.  

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 1:31 PM

JPS1

 

 
schlimm
  

....... Starting in 2010, the GDP growth rates were: 2.5%, 1.6%, 2.2%, 1.7%, 2.4%, 2.6% and 1.6% = average 2.1%. 

 

These are national GDP changes, as per the Bureau of Economic Analysis, adjusted for 2009 constant dollars, which takes out inflation.  They are the real growth rates as opposed to the nominal growth rates, which were noticeably higher.  

 

Thank you!  What would the nominal growth rates be, although I'm sure CMStPnP won't admit his error even then.

So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation?

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Posted by PJS1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 1:43 PM

schlimm

 

 
JPS1

 

 
schlimm
  

....... Starting in 2010, the GDP growth rates were: 2.5%, 1.6%, 2.2%, 1.7%, 2.4%, 2.6% and 1.6% = average 2.1%. 

 

These are national GDP changes, as per the Bureau of Economic Analysis, adjusted for 2009 constant dollars, which takes out inflation.  They are the real growth rates as opposed to the nominal growth rates, which were noticeably higher.  

 

 

 

Thank you!  What would the nominal growth rates be, although I'm sure CMStPnP won't admit his error even then.

So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation? 

According to the BEA numbers, which can be downloaded from the U.S. Commerce Department, Bureau of Economic Analysis, the nominal growth rates between 2010 and 2016 ranged from a high of 4.2 in 2014 to a low of 3.0 in 2016.  By my spreadsheet calculations the mean was 3.7 and the standard deviation was .4.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 2:46 PM

schlimm
Thank you!  What would the nominal growth rates be, although I'm sure CMStPnP won't admit his error even then. So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation?

I think you better Google, I have no clue what JPS1 is trying to do except disrupt the conversation again.    Nominal GDP includes inflation, Real GDP should be the figures used and which are most commonly used to compare year to year growth.    Nominal GDP <> Real GDP.    Nominal values ARE NOT adjusted for inflation whereas Real values are.  

JPS1 also quoted your figures as being incorrect.   Though they look correct as REAL GDP figures to me.

I didn't make an error I stated that forecasted range for potential U.S Economic growth were stated unreasonably low to make performance post 2008 look great when in fact it is well below what our Economy can do.    We should be growing at 2.7 to 3.0% or higher REAL GDP rates.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 3:04 PM

So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation?

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Posted by PJS1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 5:51 PM

schlimm

So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation? 

A carefuly read of my post shows that I was confirming your figures regarding real GDP growth from 2010 to 2016.  They agree to a T!  

I calculated the rates of change from the BEA GDP data.  This was my reason for entering the conversation.  

Anyone participating in these forums can weigh-in if he chooses to do so.  It is my choice just like that of every other participant or wanna be participant to comment if desired. 

The only rule should be to refrain from personal attacks either directly or indirectly.  Name calling, the use of inflamatory language, and unwarranted assumtions about a participant adds no value. 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 7:13 PM

schlimm

So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation?

 
Mostly comming from Left wing academia...
 
Here is one....... from Illinois as well (figures)........first Mr. Gordon at Northwestern......
 
 
 
Second though I do not think it is posted any longer, the Hillary Economic Plan averaged out to far less than 3% per year real GDP, not sure who her Economist was but definitely someone that would rather set a low bar for a goal.
 
There are others out there as well, again, just need to Google.
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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 7:22 PM

JPS1

Anyone participating in these forums can weigh-in if he chooses to do so.  It is my choice just like that of every other participant or wanna be participant to comment if desired. 

My read of your post above says you brought in Nominal GDP figures to a conversation that was discussing REAL GDP numbers on both sides........completely irrelevant to the discussion on GDP growth rates as Economists use REAL not NOMINAL when comparing GDP growth year over year.

Don't worry though I rarely if ever believe your Accounting Analysis in the forums because you always take the numbers out of context and then do the analysis.  CPA's don't do that.........bookkeepers might but most CPA's include the numbers in the context of the larger environment at the time.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 7:24 PM

JPS1

Anyone participating in these forums can weigh-in if he chooses to do so.  It is my choice just like that of every other participant or wanna be participant to comment if desired. 

My read of your post above says you brought in Nominal GDP figures to a conversation that was discussing REAL GDP numbers on both sides........completely irrelevant to the discussion on GDP growth rates as Economists use REAL not NOMINAL when comparing GDP growth year over year.

Your Accounting Analysis in the forums is sometimes skewed as well because you always take the numbers out of context and then do the analysis.  CPA's don't do that........most CPA's include the numbers in the context of the larger environment at the time.   CPA's also look at both future trends and past trends vs just this year vs last year.   What was introduced or subtracted from the environment that might have impacted the numbers as well.    If you don't do that the analysis is very misleading at times.

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Posted by PJS1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 8:58 PM

CMStPnP
JPS1

Anyone participating in these forums can weigh-in if he chooses to do so.  It is my choice just like that of every other participant or wanna be participant to comment if desired. 

 

Your Accounting Analysis in the forums is sometimes skewed as well because you always take the numbers out of context and then do the analysis.  CPA's don't do that........most CPA's include the numbers in the context of the larger environment at the time.   CPA's also look at both future trends and past trends vs just this year vs last year.   What was introduced or subtracted from the environment that might have impacted the numbers as well.    If you don't do that the analysis is very misleading at times 

"Thank you!  What would the nominal growth rates be, although I'm sure CMStPnP won't admit his error even then."

As you can see Schlimm ask for the nominal growth rates.  In fact economists use both nominal and real growth rates.  So too does the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), from which I drew my information.  Give it a go.  You might learn something. 

Since you don't know anything about me you have no basis of assessing my qualifications.  CPAs don’t deal with economics in a professional context. They are not economists; this discussion is about macroeconomic data.  Accounting and economics are distinctly different disciplines.

Moreover, your assumption that I am a CPA is unfounded. As is true for most of your assumptions. Again, you don't know anything about me!

What numbers do you think are taken out of context?  How about some solid data to back up your assertions?

Frankly, I don't care what you think.  

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 9:02 PM

JPS1

 

 
schlimm

So who are those "Bozo economists" CMStPnP?  Citation? 

 

A carefuly read of my post shows that I was confirming your figures regarding real GDP growth from 2010 to 2016.  They agree to a T!  

I calculated the rates of change from the BEA GDP data.  This was my reason for entering the conversation.  

Anyone participating in these forums can weigh-in if he chooses to do so.  It is my choice just like that of every other participant or wanna be participant to comment if desired. 

The only rule should be to refrain from personal attacks either directly or indirectly.  Name calling, the use of inflamatory language, and unwarranted assumtions about a participant adds no value. 

 

I knew that your figures were in agreement with the ones I listed. CMStPnP was just trying a distraction from his alternate facts about economics, which last I looked is still centered in academia.   This was all in service of his defending his hero's phony comments on our "failed" economy.  It's an old strategem to inflate one's own accomplishments by claiming lower numbers than were actual before your watch began.  His self-styled expertise on accountancy is laughable.

Back to the thread topic!   Illinois' governor unfortunately vetoed a bipartisan budget bill which would have staved off a junk bond crdit rating.  His veto may be overridden.  

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Posted by PJS1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 9:35 PM

CMStPnP

 
The article that you have cited reflects the opinions of one economist.  Moreover, it is ripe with nuances and qualifications.
 
If, that is, Mr. Gordon is right. But there is good reason to suspect he is far too pessimistic…..
 
Using Mr. Gordon's estimate of productivity growth (which is for the total economy rather than just the private sector), America has managed growth of just 1.3% over the past 40 years, if one excludes the period from 1996 to 2004.
 
But Mr. Gordon's assessment already looks far too pessimistic. As mentioned above, he calculates his own productivity statistic for the entire economy rather than just the private sector. In the footnotes of his paper, he says he has obtained an "unpublished but accessible" series for aggregate hours across the entire economy from the Bureau of Labour Statistics. I don't have any reason to doubt that, but I was unable to get my hands on the series despite putting inquiries to both Mr. Gordon and the BLS.
 
Given the data available to me, however, I think there is good reason to be optimistic, or at least considerably more optimistic than Mr. Gordon.
 
Economists rely on statistical projections - regression analsysis - that are subject to broad ranges of outcomes.  Which is to say that they can be dead wrong and have been on many occasions.
 
Most analysts look across a spectrum of economists, financial analysts, etc. They don't rely on just one economist or financial analyst.
 
I was verifying the changes in nominal and real GDP rates, as published by the Bureau of Economic Anaylsis, which can be verified by downloading the same file and doing the analytics.  I was not projecting future rates; just summarizing the BEA data.  And verifying that Schlimm had it correct.

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Posted by PJS1 on Tuesday, July 4, 2017 10:00 PM

CMStPnP
 

...... If Illinois collapses, so do California and New York state (all three are in the same boat).    Which also happen to be among the three largest states on the electoral map.  

California has the most Electoral College votes (55), followed by Texas (38), New York (29), Florida (29) and then Illinois and Pennsylvania with 20 each.  Illinois is not in the top three.
 
California has the most Electoral College votes (55), followed by Texas (38), New York (29), Florida (29) and then Illinois and Pennsylvania with 20 each.  Illinois is not in the top three.
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_college#/media/File:2010ElectoralCartogramGott.png

 

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