conrailman schlimm n021944, thanks: Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition. That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. That the Facts of Life.
schlimm n021944, thanks: Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition.
n021944, thanks:
Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition.
That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. That the Facts of Life.
Proove it! Cite or link to the specific page.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
conrailman Yes, that fact Airlines System gets 15 Billion Dollars for the past 25 to 30 years period.
Yes, that fact Airlines System gets 15 Billion Dollars for the past 25 to 30 years period.
Do you have a source for your claim? Forbes does not agree with your numbers.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2015/04/14/u-s-airlines-have-paid-the-government-250-billion-amazingly-some-claim-they-are-subsidized/#3ff0436b4109
Fair use,
"A government report that surfaced recently shows that U.S. airlines received $155 billion in federal subsidies between 1919 and 1998. The report was unearthed by Kevin Mitchell, chairman of the Business Travel Coalition, who found it online after he saw it mentioned in The National, a UAE publication.
The report makes for fascinating reading. It briefly and accurately relates the history of government spending on the airline industry over the 79 years ending in 1998. It was compiled by the Congressional Research Office, which answers questions for members of Congress.
But it is overstatement to call it a “bombshell report,” as the U.S. Travel Association -- which represents travel agents and supports the status quo for Mid-East carriers -- has done.
Of the $155 billion in spending through 1988 outlined in the report, the vast majority, $140 billion, was spent by the aviation trust fund that supports Federal Aviation Administration spending.
The report does not mention that since 1971, U.S. airlines and their passengers have contributed about $247 billion to the fund, according to Federal Aviation Administration historical data.
The airlines and their passengers today contribute about $10 billion annually to the fund, which currently holds a surplus of about $13 billion. The rest has been spent.
In other words, the U.S. airline industry generally pays for what it gets from the government."
An "expensive model collector"
schlimm conrailman Well, We need Fair Amount in each system like Amtrak, Planes, and Highways. But Today in 2017 Airlines and Highway system, been getting the same amount of Money for past 25 to 30 years. of 15 Billion airlines and highways 45 billion a year for 25 to 30 period. And Poor Old Amtrak been getting anywhere from 1.2 to 1.5 Billion Dollars for past 25 to 30 period. Amtrak needs better amount then little billion dollars a year. Amtrak should getting 2 to 5 Billion a year. to Amtrak First Class Train System. Citation? Factual proof? Your airline number seems far off the mark. Highways do receive about $45 billion annually + more from states. Are you suggesting Amtrak should receive an amount proportional to usage? If so, some facts showing that if anything, Amtrak receives far more subsidy than other forms of transportation. Amtrak accounts for only 1% (5.5 bil.) of commercial intercity passenger-miles and LD would be considrably less; buses 6.8%; airlines 92.2%. The total for all forms of commercial passenger-miles in 2000 was 559.5 billion. To put in perspective, private automobiles accounted for 2.5 trillion passenger-miles. (from The Past and Future of US Passenger Rail Service, Sept. 2003, Congressional Budget Office)
conrailman Well, We need Fair Amount in each system like Amtrak, Planes, and Highways. But Today in 2017 Airlines and Highway system, been getting the same amount of Money for past 25 to 30 years. of 15 Billion airlines and highways 45 billion a year for 25 to 30 period. And Poor Old Amtrak been getting anywhere from 1.2 to 1.5 Billion Dollars for past 25 to 30 period. Amtrak needs better amount then little billion dollars a year. Amtrak should getting 2 to 5 Billion a year. to Amtrak First Class Train System.
Citation? Factual proof? Your airline number seems far off the mark. Highways do receive about $45 billion annually + more from states. Are you suggesting Amtrak should receive an amount proportional to usage? If so, some facts showing that if anything, Amtrak receives far more subsidy than other forms of transportation.
Amtrak accounts for only 1% (5.5 bil.) of commercial intercity passenger-miles and LD would be considrably less; buses 6.8%; airlines 92.2%. The total for all forms of commercial passenger-miles in 2000 was 559.5 billion. To put in perspective, private automobiles accounted for 2.5 trillion passenger-miles.
(from The Past and Future of US Passenger Rail Service, Sept. 2003, Congressional Budget Office)
Yes, that fact Airlines System gets 15 Billion Dollars for the past 25 to 30 years period. and Yes the Highways get 45 Billion a year. and Poor old Amtrak 1.2 to 1.5 Billion for past 25 plus years. So which unfair?? Amtrak should least get 2 to 5 Billion Dollars to get into First Class Train System.
conrailmanWell, We need Fair Amount in each system like Amtrak, Planes, and Highways. But Today in 2017 Airlines and Highway system, been getting the same amount of Money for past 25 to 30 years. of 15 Billion airlines and highways 45 billion a year for 25 to 30 period. And Poor Old Amtrak been getting anywhere from 1.2 to 1.5 Billion Dollars for past 25 to 30 period. Amtrak needs better amount then little billion dollars a year. Amtrak should getting 2 to 5 Billion a year. to Amtrak First Class Train System.
schlimm conrailman We can give Highways 45 Billion a year and Airlines 15 Billion a year. We can give Poor Old Amtrak little 1.5 Billion a year, which is just unfair amount in 2017. Even if your quote were factual, so what? The number of highway users and airline users dwarfs Amtrak LD service. JPS1 has the right idea.
conrailman We can give Highways 45 Billion a year and Airlines 15 Billion a year. We can give Poor Old Amtrak little 1.5 Billion a year, which is just unfair amount in 2017.
Even if your quote were factual, so what? The number of highway users and airline users dwarfs Amtrak LD service. JPS1 has the right idea.
Well, We need Fair Amount in each system like Amtrak, Planes, and Highways. But Today in 2017 Airlines and Highway system, been getting the same amount of Money for past 25 to 30 years. of 15 Billion airlines and highways 45 billion a year for 25 to 30 period. And Poor Old Amtrak been getting anywhere from 1.2 to 1.5 Billion Dollars for past 25 to 30 period. Amtrak needs better amount then little billion dollars a year. Amtrak should getting 2 to 5 Billion a year. to Amtrak First Class Train System. Russia and China spends 10 to 30 Billion Dollars a year on they train system.
conrailmanWe can give Highways 45 Billion a year and Airlines 15 Billion a year. We can give Poor Old Amtrak little 1.5 Billion a year, which is just unfair amount in 2017.
JPS1 "All I know is that the long distance trains had better be preserved or the whole thing will go up in political flames." - Jackson McQuigg So much for an operating plan not driven by politics. An operating plan free of politics and driven by rational economics would ditch the long distance trains as soon as possible. They don't make any economic sense. If Amtrak were able to shed the long distance trains, it would realize an operating profit and cover a substantial portion of the NEC's fixed costs. This assumes the states continue to take financial responsibility for the state supported trains. As long as Amtrak is dependent on the federal government for nearly $1.5 billion per year to keep it afloat, politics will have a heavy impact on how it is managed. The first step to get politics out of Amtrak would be to privatize it.
"All I know is that the long distance trains had better be preserved or the whole thing will go up in political flames." - Jackson McQuigg
So much for an operating plan not driven by politics. An operating plan free of politics and driven by rational economics would ditch the long distance trains as soon as possible. They don't make any economic sense.
If Amtrak were able to shed the long distance trains, it would realize an operating profit and cover a substantial portion of the NEC's fixed costs. This assumes the states continue to take financial responsibility for the state supported trains.
As long as Amtrak is dependent on the federal government for nearly $1.5 billion per year to keep it afloat, politics will have a heavy impact on how it is managed. The first step to get politics out of Amtrak would be to privatize it.
We can give Highways 45 Billion a year and Airlines 15 Billion a year. We can give Poor Old Amtrak little 1.5 Billion a year, which is just unfair amount in 2017.
JPS 1,
Who is Jackson McQuigg that we should care about his opinion?
Who would be idiot enough to take over ATK even if it was only the NEC with its vaunted operating profit, non compensatory commuter trains, and $xx billion of deferred capital improvements?
As I am sure you know, ATK has always been a political creature and always will be even if gifted to the states it serves.
Mac
https://www.c-span.org/search/?searchtype=Videos&sort=Newest&personid[]=90882
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
WASHINGTON — Although incoming Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson made a name for himself in the airline industry, he comes from a railroad family. His father, Hale, was an office worker for the Santa Fe in his native Texas. The family followed railro...
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/06/26-who-is-richard-anderson
Former CEO Gunn says railroaders can be won over by an operating plan not driven by politics
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/06/26-amtrak-ceo-reax
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
conrailman Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too.
Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too.
He has direct experience dealing with D.C. policy makers as an airline manager.
There are both pluses and concerns with Anderson.
1. He does have experience at both Continental and Northwest airlines. Not famaliar with where he fit in during the Continental chaos but being able to see first hand the various union problems at Northwest should give him some idea. The non-union Delta is a different ball game.
2. Will he be able to grasp the ongoing problems of deferred maintenance ? Delta just has not had that much to worry about.
3. He may be able to conjole more Congress critters but who knows. It may help for the 2018 FY budget and get the needed funding for FY2019 ? FY2017 appears a lost cause ? He probably has had more contact to the Federal establishment ?
4. Delta's customer service and on time performance has been up and down so maybe he can get a handle on those metrics. OTP may be improved just by reducing station dwell time ?
5. Food service ? ? ? The 6 - 8 + hour trips on Delta certainly have basic food service.
6. He has seen the problems of congestion but can he do anything ? ?
7. Moorman appears to be committed to passing along his institutional knowledge. Moorman certainly did not get that help.
8. He will probably recognize the importance of the whole Amtrak network.
9. This may allow Moorman to act a as defacto chief maintenance officer trouble shooter getting the problem children either acting responsibily or out the door.
Retired airline executive Anderson to be co-CEO with long-time railroader Moorman
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2017/06/26-amtrak-ceo
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