If Amtrak can afford to overhaul the Surfliner F59PHI Fleet, then they can overhaul the P42's and extend thier lifespan another 10-15 years.
GE has to make spare engine parts for the P42's, otherwise where will Antrak go when the fleet becomes unserviceable?
schlimm Right. LD trains are a waste. The money could be better spent on shorter corridors, where higher speed service multiple times each day is efficient, popular and competitive. Air travel over longer distances such as Chicago to LA will always be more efficient and popular than a 44 hour train.
Right. LD trains are a waste. The money could be better spent on shorter corridors, where higher speed service multiple times each day is efficient, popular and competitive. Air travel over longer distances such as Chicago to LA will always be more efficient and popular than a 44 hour train.
I am betting they will use the Auto-Max cars as a starting point - enclosed, multiple decks what better staring point could they have for a REAL economy class - might even install a shackle or two for unruly passengers.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Excerpt from Reuters, July 12
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-amtrak-idUSKBN19X2UJ
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Outgoing Amtrak Co-chief Executive Wick Moorman said on Wednesday the money-losing U.S. passenger rail system is considering a less comfortable economy class of seats that could allow it to pack in more passengers.
"We are looking at doing some creative things in terms of creating an economy class," Moorman said at the National Press Club talk in Washington.
He said that seat pitch - the distance between the seatback and the seat in front of it - would be tighter like in airline seats. "There will be some other things that just don't make it quite as comfortable," Moorman said.
Moorman told reporters the railroad is studying the idea and has not made any final decisions.
dmikeeNot everyone rides from LA all the way to Seattle. One train per day? Arriving and departing in the middle of the night? This kind of scheduling is designed for failure.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
conrailman GE stop making P42 Engines parts few weeks ago, Its in Railpace Maz July issue. So Amtrak can't get parts then for their P42 engines, they just out of Luck.
GE stop making P42 Engines parts few weeks ago, Its in Railpace Maz July issue. So Amtrak can't get parts then for their P42 engines, they just out of Luck.
Shouldn't be a problem. Lots of ways to get non-OEM parts for locomotives.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
CSSHEGEWISCH What kind of parts are we talking about? How credible is the source?
What kind of parts are we talking about? How credible is the source?
It was in Railpace Maz issue, that was in that GE stop making all parts for P42 engines. Amtrak is not only railroad runs them engines. Metro- North Railroad and VIA Railroad runs these engines too.
Wonder if this is a power play by GE ? Maybe Amtrak not paying what GE considers enough ?
CSSHEGEWISCH conrailman Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too. You said the same thing when Wick Moorman took office. Amtrak is a lot more than locomotives and cars and those other issues need to be addressed, too.
conrailman Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too.
Maybe the New Guy could order Brand New Superliner car order and more Viewliners too, and New LD Engines order too.
Remember that one of the things Moorman had going was the development of generic equipment specs that could be used immediately for an equipment order.
Also remember that rail passenger equipment has a really long life. There really isn't anything keeping Amfleet and Superliner equipment from running indefinitely. Just needs overhauling every couple of decades or so.
Moorman also talked about the diesel locomotive fleet. He said it wasn't clear whether the best path forward was rebuilding the P42s or buying new. (I would think rebuilding with AC conversion would be more economical.
CMStPnP conrailman All these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years. . Ehhh, with that your sadly mistaken. You need to watch some youtube videos on Russian long distance train travel via Trans Siberia Railway......I think I posted some links not too long ago. Russian rail passenger cars would not pass the U.S. Federal Safety Requirements in this country. Among the violations I believe are coal fired boilers in sleeping cars, pretty sure the windows are not safety glass since a lot of travelers complain of ill fitting duo pane window seals that let drafts of freezing cold air into the car. Linoleum floors vs carpeting as well. I would not rate them better than Amtrak first generation cars. I would venture to guess that materials used in their construction also not as fireproof as in the U.S.
conrailman All these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years.
.
Ehhh, with that your sadly mistaken. You need to watch some youtube videos on Russian long distance train travel via Trans Siberia Railway......I think I posted some links not too long ago. Russian rail passenger cars would not pass the U.S. Federal Safety Requirements in this country. Among the violations I believe are coal fired boilers in sleeping cars, pretty sure the windows are not safety glass since a lot of travelers complain of ill fitting duo pane window seals that let drafts of freezing cold air into the car. Linoleum floors vs carpeting as well. I would not rate them better than Amtrak first generation cars. I would venture to guess that materials used in their construction also not as fireproof as in the U.S.
I believe conrailman was referring to emerging HSR services, such as St. Petersburg to Moscow. As to China, you omit this from your response. Had you ridden some of their current HSRs or even the previous generation of passenger services, you'd see it is far superior to anything here. And they keep building new lines!
conrailmanAll these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years.
All these Overseas Countrys like Russia and China, and other Countrys have 100% better Train Cars then the USA have. We should have First Class Amtrak, not other Countrys do. They put Amtrak to Shame for 30 plus years.
n012944 It's from Wiki, so take this info with a grain of salt, however.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies#Russia "In total, Russian Railways receives 112 billion rubles (around US$1.5 billion) annually from the government."
It's from Wiki, so take this info with a grain of salt, however....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_subsidies#Russia
"In total, Russian Railways receives 112 billion rubles (around US$1.5 billion) annually from the government."
In regards to both China and Russia, their stats are always suspect because they do not operate as normal Western governments do. In the case of Russia and China both, neither has made the full transition from state run economy and state run firms are heavily subsidized usually with a political appointee at the head who is a friend of a party boss somewhere.
If you follow the footnote from wiki-pedia it attributes the stat to a Russian publication and if you dig deeper within that Russian publication you'll see that Russian railway equipment firms are also subsidized and you will also see in some cases the government of Russia places the order direct with the equipment manufacturer as a intermediary and then turns to the railway company and says......here find a use for this equipment. Interesting reading.
So based on what I read further I would assume the $1.5 Billion figure is on the low side but because of the Economic backwardness of Russia even today, I do not think their Railways require the huge amount of subsidies that Conrailman suggests either since Russia does not really have an Interstate Highway system and their roads East of the Urals are basiscally crap in most places. Which makes Russia a lot more dependent on their railway system......and it probably does not require a whole lot of skill or management to reach profitability in that environment of lack of competition from neighboring highways.
Russia Railway put in Large order about 6 or 7 years for 5,000 New LD Cars, in Sleeping Car, Dining Cars, Lounge Cars, and Coaches. They think Big overseas, when Amtrak can only put in little 130 Viewliner car order.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 conrailman schlimm Perhaps Conrailman is the OhioRiverTroll? Similar language problems. I try tell people that Congress gives Airlines and Highways gets that same amount of money for past 25 to 30 years period. I can't look up everything on the websites. You people can't gets into your head that Congress gives them same amount of money. and gives Amtrak little 1.2 to 1.5 Billion dollars every year for past 25 to 30 years period. That Facts that Congress is unfair to Amtrak with that little amount of money. The facts are going over your head. I guess the brainwashing that the NARP tries to give its members has worked on you. Let me post part of the story I linked again, "In other words, the U.S. airline industry generally pays for what it gets from the government." Can Amtrak say the same?
conrailman schlimm Perhaps Conrailman is the OhioRiverTroll? Similar language problems. I try tell people that Congress gives Airlines and Highways gets that same amount of money for past 25 to 30 years period. I can't look up everything on the websites. You people can't gets into your head that Congress gives them same amount of money. and gives Amtrak little 1.2 to 1.5 Billion dollars every year for past 25 to 30 years period. That Facts that Congress is unfair to Amtrak with that little amount of money.
schlimm Perhaps Conrailman is the OhioRiverTroll? Similar language problems.
Perhaps Conrailman is the OhioRiverTroll? Similar language problems.
I try tell people that Congress gives Airlines and Highways gets that same amount of money for past 25 to 30 years period. I can't look up everything on the websites. You people can't gets into your head that Congress gives them same amount of money. and gives Amtrak little 1.2 to 1.5 Billion dollars every year for past 25 to 30 years period. That Facts that Congress is unfair to Amtrak with that little amount of money.
The facts are going over your head. I guess the brainwashing that the NARP tries to give its members has worked on you. Let me post part of the story I linked again,
"In other words, the U.S. airline industry generally pays for what it gets from the government."
Can Amtrak say the same?
Yes, I know Amtrak is not the same as the Airlines, But if Congress could give Amtrak more money say 3 to 5 Billion each year, we could better Amtrak System or maybe First Class Amtrak. Why can Russia and China can spend 10 to 30 Billion each year on they train system. When USA can only spend 1.2 to 1.5 Billion each year on Amtrak?? Why??
The reason folks dispute you is you are not using facts, cannot cite or link to a source and reject actual information as JPS1 and I posted.
"If wishes were horses..."
conrailman So, I was right all along with AAFT Funds were 15.8 Billion for airlines. I told you people i was right all along...
So, I was right all along with AAFT Funds were 15.8 Billion for airlines. I told you people i was right all along...
No. The total FAA budget was $15.8 billion. Of that amount approximately $1.1 billion was transferred from the general fund. The transfer would have been authorized by the Congress, but it is a minor source of the funds for the FAA.
Equally important, of the $1.1 billion transferred from the general fund to the AAFT the airlines were only the beneficiary of approximately 1/3rd of the transferred amount.
Whether it is number of airports served or number of operations controlled by the FAA, the airlines are minority users of the system. They are very important players, and it is doubtful the system would be what it is were it not for them, but most of the airports in the United States are general aviation or military airports, and most of the daily flight operations are general aviation or military.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
conrailman JPS1 conrailman That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. According to the Airport and Airway Trust Fund (AATF) Fact Sheet, between 2012 and 2016 the FAA got most of it funding from a variety of aviation related excise taxes, i.e. fuel taxes, ticket taxes, etc. These revenues sources covered 71.1 percent of outlays in 2012 to 92.8 percent in 2015. The AATF Trail Balance shows similar results for 2016. The shortfalls between FAA generated revenues and expenses are covered by transfers from the general fund. They ranged from $4.6 billion in 2012 to $1.1 billion in 2015. Funds transferred in from the general fund are restricted to FAA operations and maintenance. Facilities and Equipment, Research, Engineering, and Development, and Grants-in-Aid for Airports are funded from AATF sourced revenues. General revenues have contributed to the Facilities and Equipment and Airport accounts through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. In 2015 the AAFT funds were $15.8 billion, of which $1.1 billion or approximately seven percent came from the general fund. NARP as well as others mistakenly assume that the transfers from the general fund solely benefit the airlines. This is not true. Most of the control operations are devoted to general aviation and military flights operating in civilian airspace. When I last checked, which was a few years ago, approximately 30 percent of tower operations and 35 percent of high altitude flights were devoted to and for the benefits of the airlines. So of the $1.1 billion transferred from the general fund to the AATF, the airlines got a freebie worth roughly $358 million. But it is not that simple. The airlines are doing well. They are paying corporate income tax even after the tax loss carry forwards. It could more than cover the $358 million, but someone else can dig into those figures if she is so inclined. So, I was right all along with AAFT Funds were 15.8 Billion for airlines. I told you people i was right all along.
JPS1 conrailman That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. According to the Airport and Airway Trust Fund (AATF) Fact Sheet, between 2012 and 2016 the FAA got most of it funding from a variety of aviation related excise taxes, i.e. fuel taxes, ticket taxes, etc. These revenues sources covered 71.1 percent of outlays in 2012 to 92.8 percent in 2015. The AATF Trail Balance shows similar results for 2016. The shortfalls between FAA generated revenues and expenses are covered by transfers from the general fund. They ranged from $4.6 billion in 2012 to $1.1 billion in 2015. Funds transferred in from the general fund are restricted to FAA operations and maintenance. Facilities and Equipment, Research, Engineering, and Development, and Grants-in-Aid for Airports are funded from AATF sourced revenues. General revenues have contributed to the Facilities and Equipment and Airport accounts through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. In 2015 the AAFT funds were $15.8 billion, of which $1.1 billion or approximately seven percent came from the general fund. NARP as well as others mistakenly assume that the transfers from the general fund solely benefit the airlines. This is not true. Most of the control operations are devoted to general aviation and military flights operating in civilian airspace. When I last checked, which was a few years ago, approximately 30 percent of tower operations and 35 percent of high altitude flights were devoted to and for the benefits of the airlines. So of the $1.1 billion transferred from the general fund to the AATF, the airlines got a freebie worth roughly $358 million. But it is not that simple. The airlines are doing well. They are paying corporate income tax even after the tax loss carry forwards. It could more than cover the $358 million, but someone else can dig into those figures if she is so inclined.
conrailman That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years.
So, I was right all along with AAFT Funds were 15.8 Billion for airlines. I told you people i was right all along.
Obviously your reading comprehension is impaired or else you are some kid. Try again or get someone to help you understand.
conrailmanIt on they website every year on congress.
Shouldn't be hard to cite an actual source, then?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
schlimm conrailman schlimm n021944, thanks: Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition. That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. That the Facts of Life. Proove it! Cite or link to the specific page.
conrailman schlimm n021944, thanks: Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition. That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. That the Facts of Life.
schlimm n021944, thanks: Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition.
n021944, thanks:
Obviously Conrailman is a fact-challenged person, prefering to trot out that highly misleading propaganda report (which I also saw), which was originally developed by foreign airlines as a counterweight to domestics' challenging them for unfair competition.
That what Congress gives them every year 15 Billion dollars a year. Airlines. You look Congress Website. They give them same for past 25 to 30 years. That the Facts of Life.
Proove it! Cite or link to the specific page.
It on they website every year on congress.
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