Well, I know where his full length dome car is........... Hawthorne Yard, Indianapolis. Came in on a westbound manifest freight Wednesday afternoon and sitting in #4 track
RME 081552 Post on high speed rail.....3-5 replies Post on new GE locomotives.....5-10 replies Post on the future of Amtrak......10-15 replies Post on food...........................50+ replies! You mean 'post repeating dead-horse topics from redundant threads on food', right?
081552 Post on high speed rail.....3-5 replies Post on new GE locomotives.....5-10 replies Post on the future of Amtrak......10-15 replies Post on food...........................50+ replies!
Post on high speed rail.....3-5 replies
Post on new GE locomotives.....5-10 replies
Post on the future of Amtrak......10-15 replies
Post on food...........................50+ replies!
You mean 'post repeating dead-horse topics from redundant threads on food', right?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
JOHN L CLARK XOTower, I disagree with alot about what you wrote in regards to Amtrak's food service. The reason the food service suffers isn't from Amtrak, its from John Mica from Florida and other politicians who get their noses in Amtrak affairs. Attacks on the cost of food service has been an ongoing problem for decades. At one time Amtrak cooks went to culinary schools, china and silver were put on the tables instead of plastic utensils, and there were speciality items in the menu for almost all the long distance trains. Now with constant government interference and intensive pressure to reduce dining and lounge car costs....the results are there before you now. B******* about food service directly aimed at Amtrak doesn't fly. Here is hoping that the new diners will bring back some civility to dining car service and the federal government allows the viewliner diners to bring back upgraded menu selections and service that travelers will accept.
XOTower, I disagree with alot about what you wrote in regards to Amtrak's food service. The reason the food service suffers isn't from Amtrak, its from John Mica from Florida and other politicians who get their noses in Amtrak affairs. Attacks on the cost of food service has been an ongoing problem for decades. At one time Amtrak cooks went to culinary schools, china and silver were put on the tables instead of plastic utensils, and there were speciality items in the menu for almost all the long distance trains. Now with constant government interference and intensive pressure to reduce dining and lounge car costs....the results are there before you now. B******* about food service directly aimed at Amtrak doesn't fly. Here is hoping that the new diners will bring back some civility to dining car service and the federal government allows the viewliner diners to bring back upgraded menu selections and service that travelers will accept.
I don't see how you can cite government interference, when essentially Amtrak is a government entity.
It seems if there was an option for a private company to set up shop aboard Amtrak trains, and turn a profit, the big restaurant chains would be all over it.
Government facilities are awash in various chain restaurants, so I don't think Amtrak would be any different. It's obvious there's logistical obstacles that would make it unprofitable.
Whenever I ordered a Kosher-fish meal well in advance of my trip, I usually got it, and found the meal quite good. I think for Kosher meals Amtrak uses (or used?) Wilton Caterers, just like El Al does (or did?). Some of you might try a Kosher meal on a train where experience has shown the "on-board-cooked-food" has been less than satisfactory and see if the quality I observed has held up.
But I never found Amtrak food to be miserable. Penn Central's stale cheese sandwiches were the only time I found food to be nearly inedible. I still remember my dissapointment the first time I tried the Detroit - Chicago "Twilight Limited" (not sure if it still had the name) after they removed the diner. Next trip was on the Grand Trunk Mowhawk. Were my expectations too low? I liked the food on the Mowhawk, on the GM&O Chicago-St. Louis Trains, First Class meals on Metroliners, and most Amtrak diners, last sampled in 1996.
But of course the Rio Grande Zephyr, the Crescent under the Southern, UP, IC Panama, Super Chief, AT&SF and UP in general, and ACL and Seaboard were really great.
Concerning the Oak Room at the Cleveland Union Terminal, on my return trips to Boston (CAmbridge offfice of Bolt Beranek and Newman) from places like St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Dayton, I would usually have coach from one of those cities to Cleveland and then roomette or slumbercoach to Boston. The usual hour layover in Clevland often allowed Walter Holtkamp (Senior) to come from the Organ factory and share a dinner with me in the Oak Room and get my latest thoughts on worhsip space acoustics and I obtaining his thought on organ design and space requirements etc. a productive meeting for both of us.
The food and ambience were terrific and these stopovers were one of the most pleasan parts of my business trips.
I don't think there are any stations in Europe with that type of frequency. I was in the town of Ford in the U.K, not far from Brighton. I went as there is huge model train store just outside the station. It's just a platform at a road crossing, a metal building housing the train store and a few others and not much else. No restaurant or pub was nearby. I was thinking that there can't be much service here and it might be a long wait for a train back to London. I mean, I had just taken the train from Saratoga Springs to Penn two weeks before and there were only 2 trains a day. From Ford, there were trains every 15 minutes, some express, some local.
So in Europe, are there rail lines with one train a day or 3 times a week with food sit down service at the station? Be kinda tough to make any money in that type enviroment. Comparing European station service to that provided in Canada & the US by VIA and Amtrak is not always apples to apples.
Something interesting I want to add,
Looking at the Texas Eagle Menu, under the lunch section, I noticed a Chicken, Bacon & Cheddar Quesadilla being offered, It's basically two Flat-top griddled torillas filled with melted cheddar, apple wood bacon and sliced chicken. You can order chunky tomato salsa if you want, but I wouldn't, too spicy!
Quesadillas on an Amtrak train seem very unusual. Did any of you ever order this meal?
For food sellers near a given station, may I suggest your Internet search engine of choice or sites like Yelp; the latter has many '10 Best Restaurants near ...' lists for many stations.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Thanks, wanswheel, for a stunning image of the much-beloved-in-Cleveland Terminal Tower, as well as the exerpt about the opening of the Union Terminal in 1930 and its description of the English Oak Room.
Kansas City Union Station has an awesome restaurant setup with low train frequency. Excellent Steak place within the station and great lunch counter along with great food courts just a short walk using the connecting skywalk system. However it is no longer purely a Union Station, it is mostly a museum now and is close to other entertainment venues.........hence the number of close restaurants.
NKP guy Penn Central did have a commuter or local train tha ran east to East Cleveland-Willoghby-Mentor-Painsville-Erie PA. In addition there was a Cleveland-Hudson Ohio train that stops at Harvard/Broadway up untill 1962 bill613a NKP guy For as long as trains served the Cleveland Union Terminal (1930-1972, excluding PC's commuter), passengers could dine at the Fred Harvey English Oak Room, which in my mind remains the single best restaurant I've ever patronized. Panelled walls of oak from Sherwood Forest, floors of black and white marble (think Fred Harvey uniforms for women), a huge chandelier, oversized leather chairs and foot cushions, starched linen everywhere, delicious cuisine, and my first taste of lobster (tails). Today's rail passenger in Cleveland has "complete access to a fully functioning vending machine" (pace Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel). EL (later Conrail) commuter service ran into CUT, not PC. You're right, of course, but no one along that line ever referred to it or its trains as Conrail; just the newspapers. It was always simply the Erie. Erie Lackawanna, with or without the hypen, was just too many syllables for us pragmatic Ohioans.
bill613a NKP guy For as long as trains served the Cleveland Union Terminal (1930-1972, excluding PC's commuter), passengers could dine at the Fred Harvey English Oak Room, which in my mind remains the single best restaurant I've ever patronized. Panelled walls of oak from Sherwood Forest, floors of black and white marble (think Fred Harvey uniforms for women), a huge chandelier, oversized leather chairs and foot cushions, starched linen everywhere, delicious cuisine, and my first taste of lobster (tails). Today's rail passenger in Cleveland has "complete access to a fully functioning vending machine" (pace Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel). EL (later Conrail) commuter service ran into CUT, not PC.
NKP guy For as long as trains served the Cleveland Union Terminal (1930-1972, excluding PC's commuter), passengers could dine at the Fred Harvey English Oak Room, which in my mind remains the single best restaurant I've ever patronized. Panelled walls of oak from Sherwood Forest, floors of black and white marble (think Fred Harvey uniforms for women), a huge chandelier, oversized leather chairs and foot cushions, starched linen everywhere, delicious cuisine, and my first taste of lobster (tails). Today's rail passenger in Cleveland has "complete access to a fully functioning vending machine" (pace Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel). EL (later Conrail) commuter service ran into CUT, not PC.
For as long as trains served the Cleveland Union Terminal (1930-1972, excluding PC's commuter), passengers could dine at the Fred Harvey English Oak Room, which in my mind remains the single best restaurant I've ever patronized. Panelled walls of oak from Sherwood Forest, floors of black and white marble (think Fred Harvey uniforms for women), a huge chandelier, oversized leather chairs and foot cushions, starched linen everywhere, delicious cuisine, and my first taste of lobster (tails).
Today's rail passenger in Cleveland has "complete access to a fully functioning vending machine" (pace Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel).
EL (later Conrail) commuter service ran into CUT, not PC.
You're right, of course, but no one along that line ever referred to it or its trains as Conrail; just the newspapers.
It was always simply the Erie.
Erie Lackawanna, with or without the hypen, was just too many syllables for us pragmatic Ohioans.
Buitifull picture!!! of the Cleveland Terminal Tower
https://archive.org/stream/clevelandmakingo00rose#page/886/mode/2up
There are structural economic reasons for why Amtrak food service is not what it was in the Golden Era. Unless riders are willing to pay a premium for "fine dining" well above what the price would be in a good restaurant, that cannot happen.
To be honest, Beebe would be disappointed in any establishment that didn't merit three stars in the Michelin Guide. For the rest of the world, Amtrak's dining car service is a pleasant experience although it may be a bit pricey for coach passengers. Just keep your expectations realistic.
Lucius Beebe would be disappointed. I wouldn't call it fine dining nowadays, but you can get a satisfying meal. Amtrak's chefs can't serve you anything beyond what Management provides for them to serve, but for the most part they still take pride in their work and do a very creditable job, considering the limitations imposed upon them.
Tom
So I guess Amtrak's Dining car menus aren't as good as they look?
The simplest solution is to return to cooking onboard the train and then charging appropriately to break even, you don't have to turn a profit and you don't have to lose money either. Instead of having commisaries(which are rather expensive), I'd contract with established food service providers, such as Sysco, US Foodservice, etc., etc., or even someone like Trader Joe's.
ACY ....small town railroad station where there is a nice restaurant, convenience store, or other source of food nearby..... it's because the proprietor is confident that he has enough non-Amtrak customers to allow him to stay in business. It's not because he expects Amtrak patrons alone to keep him afloat. Tom
True. The only station in Texas that has any food service in the station, other than vending machines, I believe, is the Fort Worth Intermodal Transportation Center. It has a Subway Shop. Also, when the weather is nice, a hot dog vendor - he may have other sandwichs as well - sets up on the plaza.
Because of the long dwell time for the southbound Texas Eagle in Fort Worth, many of the coach passengers get off the train and buy their lunch at Subway as opposed to buying it on the train. Apparently the word has spread among the regular coach riders on the Eagle that there is a Subway in Fort Worth, and it is better than the Eagle's lounge car eats.
The Fort Worth Intermodal Transportation Center is served by Amtrak, Trinity Railway Express, Greyhound, and the "T", which is Fort Worth's public transportation service. It sees a lot of foot traffic.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
schlimm 54light15 Even in small towns in Germany there's often a restaurant or at least a lunch counter. In Munich, if you want a quick bite, just go to the Hauptbahnhof. In small towns, you cqn get take out sandwich-type fare at the station. The Munich (a large city) Hauptbahnhof has many places to eat inside. Ditto in Hamburg, Dresden, Leipzig, Mainz, etc.
54light15 Even in small towns in Germany there's often a restaurant or at least a lunch counter. In Munich, if you want a quick bite, just go to the Hauptbahnhof.
In small towns, you cqn get take out sandwich-type fare at the station. The Munich (a large city) Hauptbahnhof has many places to eat inside. Ditto in Hamburg, Dresden, Leipzig, Mainz, etc.
I have no experience with European trains, but I understand that's true. In Europe, train fequency is far greater than here, even in the smaller towns. That means a food seller can justify his presence near the railroad station because he has enough volume to stay in business. In this country, the larger terminals such as Chicago, D.C., etc. have large food courts with a lot of options because there are enough potential passengers to justify it. If there aren't the people, then no food seller will stay in business in the neighborhood of the station, no matter whether he's selling simple hot dogs or tacos, or full multi-course gourmet meals. Only an idiot hangs out his shingle where there isn't sufficient potential business.
In this country, you are fortunate indeed if you happen to board or detrain at a small town railroad station where there is a nice restaurant, convenience store, or other source of food nearby. If that happens, it's because the proprietor is confident that he has enough non-Amtrak customers to allow him to stay in business. It's not because he expects Amtrak patrons alone to keep him afloat.
54light15Even in small towns in Germany there's often a restaurant or at least a lunch counter. In Munich, if you want a quick bite, just go to the Hauptbahnhof.
ACY Phoebe Vet Have they ever thought of adding a private dining car in place of their own? I can't think of very many better ways for a private investor to turn a large fortune into a very small fortune. There are other issues, such as sufficient safety training for staff in the environment of a moving train, legal liability, the ever-intrusive mandates from Congress, etc. As for using a franchise, it was tried. If memory serves, it may have been Burger King, but I'm not sure. I understand they couldn't keep staff at their pay scales, and the logistical problems made the whole thing unworkable. I wasn't involved, so I'm not the person to provide details. But we've been over this territory before, over and over again. How many times must we beat this poor old horse to death before we declare it killed? Tom
Phoebe Vet Have they ever thought of adding a private dining car in place of their own?
Have they ever thought of adding a private dining car in place of their own?
I can't think of very many better ways for a private investor to turn a large fortune into a very small fortune. There are other issues, such as sufficient safety training for staff in the environment of a moving train, legal liability, the ever-intrusive mandates from Congress, etc.
As for using a franchise, it was tried. If memory serves, it may have been Burger King, but I'm not sure. I understand they couldn't keep staff at their pay scales, and the logistical problems made the whole thing unworkable. I wasn't involved, so I'm not the person to provide details.
But we've been over this territory before, over and over again. How many times must we beat this poor old horse to death before we declare it killed?
Agreed. The franchise idea is a non-starter. That said, changes could be made to improve the food experience on longer runs. Fine dining is not needed, just something comparable to a chain restaurant (many possibilities).
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