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Trump Budget Eliminates Amtrak LD trains

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Posted by ACY Tom on Monday, March 20, 2017 9:17 PM

BaltACD

The so called 'Trump Budget' is a big pile of crap thrown against the wall to see what sticks and what slides down and gets washed into the storm drains of Congress.

 

It's kind of sad that it took almost four pages of commentary to finally cut through the bloviation (probably including some of my own comments) and get down to the simple, essential facts. Thanks for the dose of reality, Balt.

Bow 

Tom

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, March 20, 2017 6:11 PM

BaltACD

The so called 'Trump Budget' is a big pile of crap thrown against the wall to see what sticks and what slides down and gets washed into the storm drains of Congress.

 

+1  Not even a sketch of a budget.  More disinformation to try to fool the public.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Monday, March 20, 2017 4:27 PM

BaltACD

The so called 'Trump Budget' is a big pile of crap thrown against the wall to see what sticks and what slides down and gets washed into the storm drains of Congress.

 

  + 1 well said

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Monday, March 20, 2017 3:44 PM

Go back and read "Art of the Deal" aim high and everything is on the table. Much of this news is BS by the Democrats who want to scare us into thinking that we are all going to Ëat Dog Food just like back in the Reagan Era.

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, March 20, 2017 1:04 PM

wanswheel
https://archive.org/stream/veterancomesback00wallrich#page/n5/mode/2up

Relevancy?

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Posted by wanswheel on Monday, March 20, 2017 12:49 PM
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 20, 2017 7:38 AM

The so called 'Trump Budget' is a big pile of crap thrown against the wall to see what sticks and what slides down and gets washed into the storm drains of Congress.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, March 20, 2017 7:12 AM

Dad made a similar observation in the early 1970's comparing the differences in political points of view between the American Legion and VFW.  Since, the members of the VFW had to serve overseas, they were more likely to have been in combat and were collectively not as far to the right as Legion members.

As a reminder, Dad flew combat with the 306th Bomb Group (8th Air Force) during WW2.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, March 19, 2017 7:34 PM

Miningman

CMStP&P- Is there ever a day or posting where you don't come under attack from the "tin foil hat reporting to the mother ship crowd"? 

You are a Stonewall!...keep up the good fight. 

You know what is funny is I get slammed on the Military boards for espousing the Liberal viewpoint (ha-ha) too much.   I have these folks check my profile to see if I actually served and in what capacity.   Not sure what happened to the Air Force but some of those USAF guys are waaaayyyy to far to the right for my comfort level (and too preachy on the religous end as well).    The other thing I noticed and this is actually a nose hit point of view but you'll never see Infantry or Special Forces posting something stupid in public or something overly political or poorly thought out.     It's always the support people that do that.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 19, 2017 4:32 PM

CMStP&P- Is there ever a day or posting where you don't come under attack from the "tin foil hat reporting to the mother ship crowd"? 

You are a Stonewall!...keep up the good fight. 

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, March 19, 2017 2:16 PM

CMStPnP

 

 
ROBERT WILLISON

I think the plan is cut the heck out of domestic spending, not just transit but the whole deal so they can move on to tax " reform ". With billions if dollars of federal expenditures gone. He can come  out more tax relief to  corporations and his buddies. All the while he helps him self and the Trump family business.

 

In Dallas, Federal Funding is looked at as an accelerant not a "must have".    So a lot of the planned transit in Dallas will move forwards without Federal Funding but at a later date.    I am pretty sure that is true of other locations that established a permanent source of funding.    So the notion he is ending transit projects might be a little far-fetched.    However, President Trump and his staff already said that existing multi-year transit projects underway would still recieve Federal Funding as committed to and they were not abandoning previous commitments.    This budget is primarily addressing projects with no Federal commitment yet.

 

The federal grants that supported the operation of the Health line looks to be eliminated in the new budget as reported in the Cleveland plain dealer.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:35 PM

ROBERT WILLISON

I think the plan is cut the heck out of domestic spending, not just transit but the whole deal so they can move on to tax " reform ". With billions if dollars of federal expenditures gone. He can come  out more tax relief to  corporations and his buddies. All the while he helps him self and the Trump family business.

In Dallas, Federal Funding is looked at as an accelerant not a "must have".    So a lot of the planned transit in Dallas will move forwards without Federal Funding but at a later date.    I am pretty sure that is true of other locations that established a permanent source of funding.    So the notion he is ending transit projects might be a little far-fetched.    However, President Trump and his staff already said that existing multi-year transit projects underway would still recieve Federal Funding as committed to and they were not abandoning previous commitments.    This budget is primarily addressing projects with no Federal commitment yet.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, March 19, 2017 10:24 AM

I think the plan is cut the heck out of domestic spending, not just transit but the whole deal so they can move on to tax " reform ". With billions if dollars of federal expenditures gone. He can come  out more tax relief to  corporations and his buddies. All the while he helps him self and the Trump family business.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, March 19, 2017 9:01 AM

oltmannd

 

 
CMStPnP

 

 
oltmannd

Has anyone else noted the irony that the states that will be losing their Amtrak service are almost exactly match the states that went for Trump?  

 

Perhaps they know their Amtrak service is secure regardless of the proposed budget.

 

 

 

If this was a strategic ploy, then I'd the Amtrak service is a pawn in some greater horsetrading scheme.

However, I think the simplest explanation is that this is just some sort of window dressing in a quick and dirty budget preparation.  Just cross stuff off so that the number at the bottom comes out right after you add in defense and homeland security spending.

There is scant analysis or commentary on any of the budget items.  Just another sign of having another rookie administration...

 

 

+1

Much of the "budget" looked like some intern cut and pasted existing stuff from various websites, enough to add up to 50 projects, many of which were privately funded already.  Failing grade for plagiarism.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, March 19, 2017 8:49 AM

ACY
Of course Trump won't interfere with State subsidized service. As long as the money isn't Federal, he doesn't care because he thinks it's no skin off his nose.  Tom

He is thinking probably more along the lines of votes and presuming the LD trains have far less support but just a guess on my part.     I thought it was radically different for them to come out and make a verbal statement (the Budget Director made the positive statement) in support of state corridors.     Past Republican Administrations never delineated between Amtrak Corridor and Amtrak LD.

I don't know what the funding ratio is on Amtrak Corridors when the state picks up part of the tab but the FEDS have been slowly increasing the state funding ratio along with other requirements like purchasing equipment.    For example to expand Chicago to Milwaukee another three frequencies, WI and IL now have to buy a new locomotive as well as I believe an additional trainset because the existing equipment pool can't make 10 RT runs.

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Posted by oltmannd on Sunday, March 19, 2017 8:29 AM

CMStPnP

 

 
oltmannd

Has anyone else noted the irony that the states that will be losing their Amtrak service are almost exactly match the states that went for Trump?  

 

Perhaps they know their Amtrak service is secure regardless of the proposed budget.

 

If this was a strategic ploy, then I'd the Amtrak service is a pawn in some greater horsetrading scheme.

However, I think the simplest explanation is that this is just some sort of window dressing in a quick and dirty budget preparation.  Just cross stuff off so that the number at the bottom comes out right after you add in defense and homeland security spending.

There is scant analysis or commentary on any of the budget items.  Just another sign of having another rookie administration...

 

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, March 19, 2017 7:29 AM

ACY

 

 
CMStPnP

 

 
ACY
CMStPnP: You suggest that Trump's plan is a well thought out plan to reassign responsibilities for funding from one agency to another in the interest of efficiency. I may not be expressing it perfectly, but I think that is the nub of it.  If that were the case, it might not be bad at all. But so far, Trump has shown pretty convincingly that he hasn't a clue how the government in general, or these agencies in particular, work in the first place. If that's the case, no plan of his will make any sense or have any positive impact, unless it's by accident. Making changes just because you decide you ought to do SOMETHING is an idiotic approach, and it doesn't speak well for Trump's business acumen. So far, that seems to be what he's doing.  I obviously don't care for him, but that's beside the point. I want the Country to have successful policies, irrespective of my opinion of him as a person. If Trump can do that, I'll accord him whatever credit he deserves. But nothing he has said or done so far makes me optimistic.  Tom

 

Interestingly nobody heard the comments the Trump administration made about state subsidized Amtrak service or Corridor service, they were supportive of both in their comments and only ripped on LD service.

 

 

 

Of course Trump won't interfere with State subsidized service. As long as the money isn't Federal, he doesn't care because he thinks it's no skin off his nose. 

Tom

 

Somebody can fact check this, but AFAIK, the "State-subsidized Services" are not 100% state funded.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:57 AM

CMStPnP

 

 
ACY
CMStPnP: You suggest that Trump's plan is a well thought out plan to reassign responsibilities for funding from one agency to another in the interest of efficiency. I may not be expressing it perfectly, but I think that is the nub of it.  If that were the case, it might not be bad at all. But so far, Trump has shown pretty convincingly that he hasn't a clue how the government in general, or these agencies in particular, work in the first place. If that's the case, no plan of his will make any sense or have any positive impact, unless it's by accident. Making changes just because you decide you ought to do SOMETHING is an idiotic approach, and it doesn't speak well for Trump's business acumen. So far, that seems to be what he's doing.  I obviously don't care for him, but that's beside the point. I want the Country to have successful policies, irrespective of my opinion of him as a person. If Trump can do that, I'll accord him whatever credit he deserves. But nothing he has said or done so far makes me optimistic.  Tom

 

Interestingly nobody heard the comments the Trump administration made about state subsidized Amtrak service or Corridor service, they were supportive of both in their comments and only ripped on LD service.

 

Of course Trump won't interfere with State subsidized service. As long as the money isn't Federal, he doesn't care because he thinks it's no skin off his nose. 

Tom

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:53 PM

ACY
CMStPnP: You suggest that Trump's plan is a well thought out plan to reassign responsibilities for funding from one agency to another in the interest of efficiency. I may not be expressing it perfectly, but I think that is the nub of it.  If that were the case, it might not be bad at all. But so far, Trump has shown pretty convincingly that he hasn't a clue how the government in general, or these agencies in particular, work in the first place. If that's the case, no plan of his will make any sense or have any positive impact, unless it's by accident. Making changes just because you decide you ought to do SOMETHING is an idiotic approach, and it doesn't speak well for Trump's business acumen. So far, that seems to be what he's doing.  I obviously don't care for him, but that's beside the point. I want the Country to have successful policies, irrespective of my opinion of him as a person. If Trump can do that, I'll accord him whatever credit he deserves. But nothing he has said or done so far makes me optimistic.  Tom

Well despite his other nonsense, he has applied his business knowledge in areas that a politician would not.     Too early to tell how effective he will be with legislation and the budget, in my view.    I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt there.

To be fair, I also extended the benefit of the doubt to the last President for the first two years at least.

Last but not least, I can't see a native of NYC, screwing up Amtrak beyond removal of the Long Distance Trains, which most of us know will not happen because Congress will vote against it and the labor protections will keep them running forever...........as in the past.     I don't think there is a politician that will ever be able to kill Amtrak's LD trains without the country plunging into a major financial crisis first to provide a real sense of urgency for eliminating them.    I think the most we will ever see is a compromise there where Amtrak loses maybe 2-3 LD trains but not all of them at once.

Interestingly nobody heard the comments the Trump administration made about state subsidized Amtrak service or Corridor service, they were supportive of both in their comments and only ripped on LD service.

So if any LD trains are on the block, my guess is finally the Cardinal and the Sunset Limited make their last runs.

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Posted by ACY Tom on Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:46 PM

CMStPnP:

You suggest that Trump's plan is a well thought out plan to reassign responsibilities for funding from one agency to another in the interest of efficiency. I may not be expressing it perfectly, but I think that is the nub of it. 

If that were the case, it might not be bad at all. But so far, Trump has shown pretty convincingly that he hasn't a clue how the government in general, or these agencies in particular, work in the first place. If that's the case, no plan of his will make any sense or have any positive impact, unless it's by accident. Making changes just because you decide you ought to do SOMETHING is an idiotic approach, and it doesn't speak well for Trump's business acumen. So far, that seems to be what he's doing. 

I obviously don't care for him, but that's beside the point. I want the Country to have successful policies, irrespective of my opinion of him as a person. If Trump can do that, I'll accord him whatever credit he deserves. But nothing he has said or done so far makes me optimistic. 

Tom

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, March 18, 2017 8:41 PM

A McIntosh

While Trump's infrastructure plan is quite murky at this point, I either read of or heard that the trillion dollar infrastructure idea depended on a lower corporate tax rate of around 10 to 15%. The trillions that corporations are holding overseas would supposedly flow back stateside and pay a one time tax at the lower rate, thus yielding the roughly one trillion plus for infrastructure projects that would be spread out over 10 years. This money would match private funds or money raised by state and local governments or other public bodies, such as Amtrak. Those of you with better info than I can comment on the accuracy, or lack thereof.

 

Pretty iffy.  

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Posted by A McIntosh on Saturday, March 18, 2017 8:30 PM

While Trump's infrastructure plan is quite murky at this point, I either read of or heard that the trillion dollar infrastructure idea depended on a lower corporate tax rate of around 10 to 15%. The trillions that corporations are holding overseas would supposedly flow back stateside and pay a one time tax at the lower rate, thus yielding the roughly one trillion plus for infrastructure projects that would be spread out over 10 years. This money would match private funds or money raised by state and local governments or other public bodies, such as Amtrak. Those of you with better info than I can comment on the accuracy, or lack thereof.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, March 18, 2017 6:59 PM

If the budget is passed with the Amtrak and Transit cuts, then it is expenditure certain that those programs will be cut.  Even if the infrastructure package is also passed as tax break incentives, there is little certainty that rail projects will be privately funded.  Just look at the problems that FEC/Brightline had trying to sell the junk bonds for AAF.  In the end they had to self-finance.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, March 18, 2017 12:23 PM

Schlimm, thanks for articulating this so well. It was what I was driving at, but you got it 100% correct. And then some.

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Saturday, March 18, 2017 12:20 PM

The problem is Trump's infrastructure program is nothing more than a wish list. The reality is that local transit systems will lose millions in new investments and operating funds.  Gcrta will lose the funding to operate it's health line running from public square out to the Cleveland clinic, providing connections to heavy rail and West side busses in public square.

The real irony is the Health line construction, new buses and the rebuilding of public square to better flow bus traffic was largely paid  for with Federal funding.

It's a shame that Trump's vision of  making America great again is as erratic as his tweets.

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, March 18, 2017 12:15 PM

schlimm
Analyisis of his plan: Trump’s plan is not really an infrastructure plan. It’s a tax-cut plan for utility-industry and construction-sector investors, and a massive corporate welfare plan for contractors. The plan doesn’t directly fund new roads, bridges, water systems or airports. Instead, Trump’s plan provides tax breaks to private-sector investors who back profitable construction projects. These projects (such as electrical grid modernization or energy pipeline expansion) might already be planned or even underway. There’s no requirement that the tax breaks be used for incremental or otherwise expanded construction efforts; they could all go just to fatten the pockets of investors in previously planned projects.  He also takes the projects out of existing federal agencies and sets up a new agency in the WH.  The potential for pork and graft is huge.

Well I guess that is one perspective but I think I will wait and see how it is implemented before I make judgements of abuse (before they happen).

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Posted by PJS1 on Saturday, March 18, 2017 11:18 AM

CMStPnP

Here is the preliminary Infrastructure program released in December, it was a work in progress then.    #1 on the list is Amtrak and the twin tubes to NYC, they also have the CSX Howard Street Tunnel on the list.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3409546-Emergency-NatSec50Projects-121416-1-Reduced.html  

This is a political wish list issued before the President took office.  

We won't know the details of the President's proposals for months to come, and they will only be important if Congress agrees to fund them. Until then getting torqued-up over the President's (OMB's) proposed budget seems premature. 

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:12 AM

CMStPnP

 

 
schlimm
n.b.:  As of Saturday morning, Trump's minions have yet to release any details of his infrastructure budget.

 

Not true, they did a preliminary release in December.    It is posted in this forum or General Discussion Forum.    Again, all you need to do is search on Trump and Infrastructure as keywords.

 

Analyisis of his plan: Trump’s plan is not really an infrastructure plan. It’s a tax-cut plan for utility-industry and construction-sector investors, and a massive corporate welfare plan for contractors. The plan doesn’t directly fund new roads, bridges, water systems or airports. Instead, Trump’s plan provides tax breaks to private-sector investors who back profitable construction projects. These projects (such as electrical grid modernization or energy pipeline expansion) might already be planned or even underway. There’s no requirement that the tax breaks be used for incremental or otherwise expanded construction efforts; they could all go just to fatten the pockets of investors in previously planned projects.  He also takes the projects out of existing federal agencies and sets up a new agency in the WH.  The potential for pork and graft is huge.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:08 AM

Here is the preliminary Infrastructure program released in December, it was a work in progress then.    #1 on the list is Amtrak and the twin tubes to NYC, they also have the CSX Howard Street Tunnel on the list.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3409546-Emergency-NatSec50Projects-121416-1-Reduced.html

 

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, March 18, 2017 10:01 AM

schlimm
n.b.:  As of Saturday morning, Trump's minions have yet to release any details of his infrastructure budget.

Not true, they did a preliminary release in December.    It is posted in this forum or General Discussion Forum.    Again, all you need to do is search on Trump and Infrastructure as keywords.

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