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Super Chief Fueling Stops

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, November 14, 2016 9:08 PM

blue streak 1

Two hoses each loco.  1= fuel 1= water.  An indication of how often water needed for diesels may be found from ::  The N&W / SOU RR trains used to add water in Monroe, Va , Bristol, Va, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Birmingham. 


http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption

Another interesting element of the picture - the lead engine has footboards attached to the pilot.  One normally only sees footboards on yard engines in my experience.

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RME
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Posted by RME on Monday, November 14, 2016 8:41 PM

This is interesting.  Someone needs to look at the diagram for one of these Es to see which fills correspond to which hoses.

I think both tank cars are fuel only (and are in parallel, one per locomotive).  They are pressurized just like NASCAR stops to give the necessary speed (you can rapidly see that gravity feed from a tank car to the fill point on the E unit would not give the indicated "5 minute" service time without considerable power assist, and machine pumps would require cost over what would be required for compressed air.)

I note that the 'sheen' under the "water" fill on the lead engine is similar to the spill under the two diesel hoses, and that the rearmost hoses on both units come from square boxes rather than something like a standpipe (the one to the forward engine is largely hidden by the surroundings, but I think you can make it out).  I'd be inclined to think these are lube oil rather than water. 

I do concur that water service would almost have to be involved at some of these stops, and it would be interesting to see how the necessary flow was arranged for (with pressure connections at the locomotives).

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, November 14, 2016 10:28 AM

Dr D

rjemery, et.al

I still have the Santa Fe timetable for Spring Summer 1967 which gives the following stops for the Super Chief - El Capitan.  The two trains ran on the same schedule with the Chief being all Pullman sleeping cars and the El Capitain all coach.  Both trains were "extra fare" travel.

Departure - Chicago on Central Time was --------------   6:30 PM - day 1

Arrival - Kansas City, MO - 449 miles was --------------  1:55 AM - day 2

Departure - Kansas City, MO ----------------------------   2:05 AM - day 2

Arrival - Dodge City, KAS - 787 miles - Central time --   7:15 AM - day 2

Departure - Dodge City, KAS - Mountain time ---------   6:18 AM - day 2

Arrival - La Junta, CO - 990 miles ----------------------   9:00 AM - day 2

Departure - La Junta, CO -------------------------------   9:20 AM - day 2

Arrival - Albuquerque, NM - 1335 miles ---------------   5:00 PM - day 2

Leave - Albuquerque, NM -------------------------------   5:10 PM - day 2 

Arrival - Williams, Jct, AZ - 1711 miles ----------------  11:30 PM - day 2

Leave - Williams, Jct, AZ -------------------------------   11:35 PM - day 2

Arrival - Los Angeles - 2222 miles - Pacific Time -----     9:00 AM - day 3

----------------

Reviewing this trip - Five stops to the west coast were scheduled.  Chicago departure was in the 6:30 PM in the evening with 450 miles until the first layover at Kansas City, MO which was 10 minutes. 

The trip to Dodge City, KAS was 239 miles and the second layover at Dodge City was 3 minutes with time zone change from Central to Mountain moving watches ahead one hour.

The trip to La Junta, CO was  541 miles and the third layover was 10 minutes.

The trip to Albuquerque, NM was 345 miles and the fourth layover there was 10 minutes.

The trip to Williams Jct. AZ was 376 miles and the fifth layover there was 5 minutes.

The run into Los Angeles CA in the morning was 511 miles with arrival at 9:00 AM Pacific Time watches set ahead in the night or upon waking.  Sleeping car porter would remind you if necessary.

------------------------

Total trip running was 2222 miles with evening departure the first day and one full second day on the train with arrival in the AM of the third day.  

The Pullman porter would make up the bed - berth - the evening leaving Chicago and the morning of the second day.  He would make up the berth the evening of the second day. 

Drinks were available in the lounge and meals on china with linen and silverwear in the dining car - seating at request of the steward who wore gloves and tails.  The vista dome was available anytime.  A writing desk and telephone service were also provided - cell phones were not invented yet.  Radio was available in the Pullman car and a library was on board the train.  Newspapers were also available in the lounge and provided at breakfast each morning.

Short of a telegram you were out of touch with the world and the scenery was the best - highways and byways of America and all the backyards and industrial settings also - open range and mountain pass everywhere people lived or did not live - just the railroad. 

The train moved constantly you could get off at the station stops and walk around the platform only for moments.  Pets could be shipped in the baggage car or carried aboard the Pullman compartments - dogs could come aboard leashed if muzzled.  You could buy native American souviners at the station stop in Albuquerque, New Mexico but it was only a 10 minute stop - and they didn't like to wait. 

And yah the Pullman porter shined your shoes every night if you put them in the special wall box located in your Pullman room compartment.

------------

Doc       

 

 

 

Very good, Doc. However, most people set their watches back an hour when going west, and ahead an hour when going east. As for me, I do not bother to reset my watch, but remember which time zone I am in. 

Johnny

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Posted by rjemery on Monday, November 14, 2016 7:44 AM
sclimm, Fueling stops would have diminished as newer model front end power should have had higher fuel tank capacities as well as better mileage. As an aside, Santa Fe usually added to the point an extra power unit, typically a B, in case one of the diesels broke down en route, the better to maintain the on time schedule.

RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM

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Posted by schlimm on Monday, November 14, 2016 6:51 AM

rcdrye

Using the 1938 "Super Chief" timetable for distances it looks like fuel stops were made about every 400 miles.  This is reasonable considering the relatively tiny 1200 gallon tanks the Super Chief's diesels carried.  Translating the distance into refueling stops gets:

Kansas City 451.1

La Junta 991.7 (440.6)

Albuquerque 1338.1 (346.4 - with Raton and Glorieta Pass)

Winslow 1627.1 (299.0)

Barstow 2086.4 (459.3)

Los Angeles 2227.3 (140.9)

None of them are long stops, averaging about 7 minutes.  All of them were regular crew change points.

 

Your 1938 TT and Doc's 1967 TT seem quite different in terms of stops.

 

C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 14, 2016 6:32 AM

Using the 1938 "Super Chief" timetable for distances it looks like fuel stops were made about every 400 miles.  This is reasonable considering the relatively tiny 1200 gallon tanks the Super Chief's diesels carried.  Translating the distance into refueling stops gets:

Kansas City 451.1

La Junta 991.7 (440.6)

Albuquerque 1338.1 (346.4 - with Raton and Glorieta Pass)

Winslow 1627.1 (299.0)

Barstow 2086.4 (459.3)

Los Angeles 2227.3 (140.9)

None of them are long stops, averaging about 7 minutes.  All of them were regular crew change points.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, November 14, 2016 4:54 AM

ORNHOO
Is the man in the engineer's cap by the corner of 100563 smoking a cigarette during refueling? And, is the headlight shrouded to comply with wartime blackout rules?

I complained about that in the Army once and the guy smoking on the back of the Diesel fuel truck dropped his lit cigarette into the tanker holding Diesel Fuel just to be a jerk but to demonstrate that Diesel has a high ignition point and a lit cigarette typically will not ignite it.

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Posted by Dr D on Monday, November 14, 2016 4:51 AM

rjemery, et.al

I still have the Santa Fe timetable for Spring Summer 1967 which gives the following stops for the Super Chief - El Capitan.  The two trains ran on the same schedule with the Chief being all Pullman sleeping cars and the El Capitain all coach.  Both trains were "extra fare" travel.

Departure - Chicago on Central Time was --------------   6:30 PM - day 1

Arrival - Kansas City, MO - 449 miles was --------------  1:55 AM - day 2

Departure - Kansas City, MO ----------------------------   2:05 AM - day 2

Arrival - Dodge City, KAS - 787 miles - Central time --   7:15 AM - day 2

Departure - Dodge City, KAS - Mountain time ---------   6:18 AM - day 2

Arrival - La Junta, CO - 990 miles ----------------------   9:00 AM - day 2

Departure - La Junta, CO -------------------------------   9:20 AM - day 2

Arrival - Albuquerque, NM - 1335 miles ---------------   5:00 PM - day 2

Leave - Albuquerque, NM -------------------------------   5:10 PM - day 2 

Arrival - Needles, CA  - 1914 miles - Pacific Time ----    2:00 AM - day 3

Leave - Needles, CA - Pacific Time --------------------    2:05 AM - day 3

Arrival - Barstow, CA - 2081 miles --------------------    5:00 AM - day 3

Departure - Barstow, CA -------------------------------    5:10 AM - day 3

Arrival - Los Angeles - 2222 miles --------------------     9:00 AM - day 3

----------------

Reviewing this trip - Six stops to the west coast were scheduled.  Chicago departure was in the 6:30 PM in the evening with 450 miles until the first layover at Kansas City, MO which was 10 minutes. 

The trip to Dodge City, KAS was 239 miles and the second layover at Dodge City was 3 minutes with time zone change from Central to Mountain moving watches back one hour.

The trip to La Junta, CO was  541 miles and the third layover was 10 minutes.

The trip to Albuquerque, NM was 345 miles and the fourth layover there was 10 minutes.

The trip to Needles, CA was 579 miles and the fifth layover there was 5 minutes.

The trip to Barstow, CA was 167 miles and the sixth layover there was 10 minutes.

The run into Los Angeles CA in the morning was 141 miles with arrival at 9:00 AM Pacific Time watches set behind in the night at Needles, CA or upon waking.  Sleeping car porter would remind you if necessary.

------------------------

Total trip running was 2222 miles with evening departure the first day and one full second day on the train with arrival in the AM of the third day.  

The Pullman porter would make up the bed - berth - anytime but usually in the evening leaving Chicago and the morning of the second day.  He would make up the berth again the evening of the second day.  Arrival in Los Angeles the morning of the third day usually precluded this again. 

Drinks were available in the lounge and meals on china with linen and silverwear in the dining car - seating at request of the steward who wore gloves and tails.  The vista dome was available anytime.  A writing desk and dictation equipment were also provided in the dome car where regular reports of the stock market were available - cell phones were not invented yet.  TV was not available but radio was available in the Pullman car and magazines and newspapers were also available in the lounge and provided at breakfast each morning. 

I still have a "daily weather report" typed up on railroad stationary and included with my moring newspaper in my Pullman compartment.

Except for posted mail, and short of recieving a telegram at one of the station stops, you were out of touch with the world and the scenery was the best - highways and byways of America and all the backyards and industrial settings also - open range and mountain pass everywhere people lived or did not live - just the railroad. 

The train moved constantly you could get off at the station stops and walk around the platform only for moments.  Pets could be shipped in the baggage car or carried aboard the Pullman compartments - dogs could come aboard leashed if muzzled.  You could buy native American souviners at the station stop in Albuquerque, New Mexico but it was only a 10 minute stop - and they didn't like to wait. 

And yah the Pullman porter shined your shoes every night if you put them in the special wall box located in your Pullman room compartment.

------------

Doc       

 

 

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Posted by ORNHOO on Monday, November 14, 2016 12:46 AM
Is the man in the engineer's cap by the corner of 100563 smoking a cigarette during refueling? And, is the headlight shrouded to comply with wartime blackout rules?
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:28 PM

blue streak 1
Two hoses each loco.  1= fuel 1= water.  An indication of how often water needed for diesels may be found from ::  The N&W / SOU RR trains used to add water in Monroe, Va , Bristol, Va, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Birmingham. 


http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption

Being unable to trace the origin of the hoses - I suspect 1 tank car supplies fuel and the other supplies water.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Sunday, November 13, 2016 5:38 PM

Two hoses each loco.  1= fuel 1= water.  An indication of how often water needed for diesels may be found from ::  The N&W / SOU RR trains used to add water in Monroe, Va , Bristol, Va, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Birmingham. 


http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, November 13, 2016 3:31 PM

Looks like they are injecting compressed air into the top of those tank cars (red hoses) to push the fuel out the bottom valves.   I think that is interesting.

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Posted by erikem on Sunday, November 13, 2016 1:58 PM

rjemery


Guess this pretty much wraps up this thread.

Don't be too hasty... Wink

Since the AT&SF used steam ejector A/C, and considering that the A/C could consume 400lb/hr per car of steam (50 gal/hr of water), the fueling stops almost certainly involved watering as well.

 - Erik

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Posted by rjemery on Sunday, November 13, 2016 1:17 PM

daveklepper

Most likely La Junta and Barstow



Dave,

I consulted an AT&SF 1963-64 Winter Schedule.  It appears the trains traveled about 500 miles before requiring refueling.  Based on w/b published arrival and departure times, I believe the following to be the refueling stops:

Kansas City, MO
La Junta, CO
Albuquerque, NM
Barstow, CA

Between Kansas City, MO, and Barstow, CA, the w/b San Francisco Chief appears to have made refueling stops at:

Amarillo, TX
Belen, NM

The trains' windows were certainly washed at Albuquerque, although I doubt a wash was done at Kansas City or La Junta and probably not at Barstow.  I seem to recall a washer at Belen for the SF Chief.

FWIW, Chicago to Los Angeles, the total distance covered was 2,222.2 miles.  For the San Francisco Chief, total distance was 2557.2 miles.

Guess this pretty much wraps up this thread.

RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM

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Posted by ROBERT WILLISON on Sunday, November 13, 2016 8:53 AM

Wow, look at those old cars and trucks next to the tank cars.

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, November 13, 2016 7:05 AM

 

More,

http://www.shorpy.com/node/83?size=_original#caption

Headlight shroud. Bell by Horns, and more, much more.

Thank You

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 13, 2016 4:11 AM

Most likely La Junta and Barstow

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Super Chief Fueling Stops
Posted by rjemery on Saturday, November 12, 2016 8:15 PM

On its 37-hour run between Chicago and Los Angeles, what were the enroute fueling stops for the Super Chief and El Capitan?  Albuquerque was one, and I believe Kansas City was another.

RJ Emery near Santa Fe, NM

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