This is not just the TSA. This law was a recommendation of the 9-11 bipartisan commission in 2005. South Dakota seems to have figured out how to comply. Ten years is a long time to do something that is not exactly rocket science.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
If those 4 states decided to defy the TSA state ID mandate, passengers in those states would start getting advanced warnings from the airlines that they would need passports or other acceptable ID, or they may not be able to board. The citizens and business of that state would quickly tell their legislatures to fix their problem.
Perhaps it is easier for a state like South Dakota, with its limited number of public employees -- smaller than individual departments in many other states -- to fully implement new criteria for IDs. More surprisingly, local TSA employees even carry out their duties with a measure of "Midwest nice" that is absent in many other places.
However, my basic conviction is that much/most of what the TSA does furthers no purpose save their continuing existence. As I'm convinced of that, I'm opposed to any attempt by them to extend their methods to trains.
So 4 + 4 Jan 10 ; 1 Jun 1, and 22 states Oct 10th.
question. What happens to persons in any state that do not have the revised licenses ? In Georgia not everyone will have enhanced license until Oct 1, 2017 since licenses are 5 year, enhanced started July 1 2012, & could be renewed for up to 90 days before expiradation.
Georgia also has some lifetime licenses mostly to vets.
Dakguy201However, my basic conviction is that much/most of what the TSA does furthers no purpose save their continuing existence. As I'm convinced of that, I'm opposed to any attempt by them to extend their methods to trains.
Yup, former Infantryman here.......while I will not pass myself off as a airport security expert. Certainly I can spot the holes in security. The ways around TSA to the jetliner itself still have not been secured. TSA is nothing more than a "feel good" placebo for the traveling public, in my opinion. Now they might have a visible deterrent value but in my view they are not as effective as most believe. Other items of my observation:
1. Roving guards around airport perimeter not frequent or enough.
2. Critical ATC control equipment outside airport perimeter largely unsecured.
3. Airfield itself in a lot of cases has numerous close in warehouses and general offices that have no security layer. I worked in one at DTW that was hiring it's security guards fresh off the boat from the Sudan (lol).
4. Airport public observation areas in a lot of cases, direct line to departing and landing aircraft with easy freeway access.
5. External or foriegn to the U.S. Airports do not supply same level of security to inbound to U.S. flights. Most especially at Mexico City and other 2nd world countries.
6. Access doors to jetliners or to airport tamarac from airport terminal building not always secure or secure procedures not followed.
Most USAF airfields have a significantly higher level of security at a far lower cost than what we get with TSA at a civilian airfield.
Putting tsa in train (or bus) stations is a total waste. There are too many other opportunities to attack either, during a trip!I mostly agree with Firelock76, Phoebe Vet, and Dakguy201. That the tsa is a feel good solution, largely ineffective (missing more "testing screening" fake bombs than they catch; denying kid's toys as "looks like a weapon", etc), and am opposed to a national ID card.I also agree with CMStPnP, that many "security" measures the government takes are, at best, poorly thought out, and incomplete.I was stationed at Ft. Meade 25+ years ago when they added "security" measures to stop car bombs, at a government agency sited there. The measures, then, would stop one car, but probably not multiple vehicles, and would be totally ineffective against motorcycles (reference Vietnam, bicycles made into bombs) running in the doors. Our tax dollars, Wasted!Chicago airport police: Guidance to unarmed aviation police: Run and hidehttp://www.cnn.com/2015/12/30/us/unarmed-aviation-officers/http://wgntv.com/2016/01/03/unarmed-ohare-midway-aviation-officers-told-to-run-and-hide-report/http://godfatherpolitics.com/27702/airport-police-shooter-strategy-run-hide/
With an Ill driver's license, I would use my (retired) military ID.
While I agree that much security (airport and elsewhere) is theater and illusion, the telling stat is results. How many successful air-related terrorist/deranged person/hijacking events within the purview of TSA have occurred since its inception?
schlimm While I agree that much security (airport and elsewhere) is theater and illusion, the telling stat is results. How many successful air-related terrorist/deranged person/hijacking events within the purview of TSA have occurred since its inception?
I have a better question. How many terrorists have they intercepted? I am not aware of a single one. I do, on the other hand know that they have seized thousands of dollars worth of property from honest citizens, and know people who have missed their flights because they were singled out for additional harassment disguised as screening. They have arrested people for expressing anger at the dehumanizing way they were being treated. I have seen an airport employee arrested because he jumped the fence when he got to the unmanned gate, realized he had left his ID in the car and would be late to punch in if he ran back to get it. So he jumped the fence, punched in, then returned to the car to get his ID. On the other hand they did NOT intercept a runaway who climbed the fence and stowed away in the wheel well of an airliner.
I think it's odd that the same Republican politicians who keep offering bills to allow people with carry permits to take their guns into bars, and schools, and movie theaters never offer a bill to allow them on aircraft or in the visitors gallery in the legislature. It would seem to negate that claim that a gun free zone is a terrorist's dream.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I don't think that is an accurate test myself because it goes to motivation to conduct the attacks A LOT MORE than it does to security effectiveness. It took quite a bundle of money on the terrorist side as well as resources to pull off the 9-11 attacks. So much so that even if we had not added to security, not very likely they would repeatedly pull off an attack like that due to the cost, planning time and difficulty of keeping it a secret for so long. Also, it would lose much of the shock value and probably effectiveness with attempts at repeat because of the old adage......fool me once, shame on you........fool me twice, shame on me.
It's roughly analogous to asking how many Females passed the Marines test of integration into the Infantry ranks? And just stopping with that answer to draw a conclusion. Without asking more detailed questions on the tests, why there was failure, what was run differently vs normal tests prior to the female integration question, etc. That whole fiasco with the Marines has me chuckling still. I have to give them credit for the effort they put into it but an EPIC FAIL on camoflage of their intentions/motivation for the test......lol.
It amazes me how easily people give up freedom if you keep them afraid.
Phoebe Vet It amazes me how easily people give up freedom if you keep them afraid.
I agree and not only that but once the gigantic TSA Federal Employment program was underway........how difficult it has been to scale it back or at least to get a common sense review of it. I am very happy that TSA stupidity never spread to Amtrak.
A more effective and less invasive system would be to replace the East German style check points in the airport with uniformed Air Marshals on patrol in the terminal with bomb sniffing dogs and under cover Air Marshals on random aircraft. That is the way police work is done in the USA. We don't treat everyone like a criminal just because there might be a criminal somewhere.
Dakguy201 schlimm While I agree that much security (airport and elsewhere) is theater and illusion, the telling stat is results. How many successful air-related terrorist/deranged person/hijacking events within the purview of TSA have occurred since its inception? Sorry, I disagree regarding the assumed success rate. It is unknowable -- if there has been any success at all. I admit that we have no way to know how many events the TSA presence has defeated.
Sorry, I disagree regarding the assumed success rate. It is unknowable -- if there has been any success at all. I admit that we have no way to know how many events the TSA presence has defeated.
The rate is knowable: There have been ZERO successful terrorist, etc. attacks within the purview of TSA, whether on Bush's or Obama's watches. I never said anything about how many acts were prevented, just that there have been none. Are you now claiming there was one or more? Citations and links, please, as I must have been asleep the last 14 years.
I have always thought that the backward bastards of 9-11 had the best day of their Middle Ages lives. Aided by a lazy U.S. that was incurious about flight-school students who dropped out after learning how to fly planes but not to land them.
I too believe TSA is largely a joke -- just look at the employees -- but so are our antagonists. Maybe our people are just enough better than theirs -- possible, with supervision -- that TSA is worth it.
dakotafredAided by a lazy U.S. that was incurious about flight-school students who dropped out after learning how to fly planes but not to land them.
Lazy? I think other descriptors fit the FBI/CIA/OOPOTUS nexus better.
dakotafred I have always thought that the backward bastards of 9-11 had the best day of their Middle Ages lives. Aided by a lazy U.S. that was incurious about flight-school students who dropped out after learning how to fly planes but not to land them. I too believe TSA is largely a joke -- just look at the employees -- but so are our antagonists. Maybe our people are just enough better than theirs -- possible, with supervision -- that TSA is worth it.
What I find really interesting is they seem to target whatever Western country is in the headlines at the moment. Seems that if the United States lays low and out of the headlines........terrorists take us out of their sights. Anyone else notice that? Terrorism seems largely PR based to me...........almost entirely.
Not endorsing the Obama administration strategy though (to lay low). I think Bush Administration strategy had faults as well (not to use PR more heavily against the radicals). I think we need to hit them hard on both fronts, militarily and on PR. Their PR is what is driving recruiting, IMHO.
He-he-he-he-he.....this just in....
++++++++++++++++++++
"U.S. military installations are no longer allowing visitors to gain base access using official ID cards from five states -- and other installations may soon follow.
State-issued driver’s licenses and identification cards from Illinois, New Mexico, Missouri, Washington and Minnesota can no longer be used to obtain a visitor’s pass because those cards don’t comply with federal standards, officials said.
Guidance has already been issued by such installations as Fort Bragg in North Carolina, White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, Fort Drum in New York, Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri and Fort Leavenworth in Kansas.
"Effective immediately, residents of these five states can no longer use their driver’s license to get a visitor’s pass," Tom McCollum, a Fort Bragg spokesman said in a release today. "Driver's licenses and identification cards issued by these states cannot be used to access not just Fort Bragg, but all federal facilities, to include other military installations."
Nate Allen, a spokesman for the Army, in an email confirmed the changes affect all military installations in the U.S."
George Orwell's novel "1984" is gradually coming true.
Phoebe Vet George Orwell's novel "1984" is gradually coming true.
It's been with us a long time, starting with gems from 'Newspeak' such as "collateral damage" i.e., indiscriminate killing of civilians or "misspoke" meaning erroneous or lying.
Just want to correct some misinformation here. Folks from IL can still use their ID at the airport until 2018 per the TSA website link below. Click the below link then scroll to bottom of page and click the "Real ID an You: RUMOR Control" link to see the deadlines for states.
http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief
Thats too bad, I wanted so bad to see the entire State of illinois grounded...lol.
CMStPnP Just want to correct some misinformation here. Folks from IL can still use their ID at the airport until 2018 per the TSA website link below. Click the below link then scroll to bottom of page and click the "Real ID an You: RUMOR Control" link to see the deadlines for states. http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief Thats too bad, I wanted so bad to see the entire State of illinois grounded...lol.
Especially at O'hare!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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