Due to an unexpected phone call missed the following story. NBC nightly news had a lead teaser stating " driver's licenses may not be enough to fly and a passport may be needed " This poster finds this lead's story highly improbable. Can this forum imagine all those travelers without passports trying to get on trains ?
Can someone out west follow the story ?
EDIT: here is a link
http://theweek.com/speedreads/596471/drivers-license-may-not-enough-through-tsa-airport-security-2016
The Federal Government is placing pressure on the States to issue "Real ID" -- that is, drivers licenses or other form of identification with stronger security features along with more rigorous rules for proving your identity to get one.
Many states are in compliance, others are not, and famously, Minnesota is defiantly not in compliance in protest against what the citizens or their representatives in that state regard as Federal overreach.
Discussions of this brewing battle mention that you need to show ID to board Amtrak -- others could fill us in on the degree to which this is the case. It was said that checking ID by bus lines has been "optional", but at the intercity bus loading lane on University Avenue in front of the Chazen Museum of art in Madison, WI, I see drivers checking ID against their passenger manifest as proof of having paid the fare.
I think the idea that there would be one ID requirement for air travel that would not spill over to Amtrak or the motorcoach carriers is wishful thinking. As to Minnesota and other states fighting this, stay tuned as they say . . .
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
As I recall, I have had to show my driver's license when boarding a train once--when boarding the Capitol Limited in Washington in 2008 or 2010.
The last time I rode an inter-city bus was in the spring of '97, when my wife and I turned a rental car back in Nashua, N.H. so I would not have to drive back to Boston when the maniacs were going to work. We took a bus and left the driving to a paid driver. If I take my usual spring trip next year, I expect to ride a bus between Washington and Bristol, Tenn-Va.
The last time I flew, in April of 2012, I had my passport with me, and it satisfied the security man.
When boarding a train here, my ticket is scanned by a conductor who knows me.
Johnny
I've never had to show identification on Amtrak in all the years since 2001. As for the "maniacs" driving in Massachusetts, I learned a new name for them from someone just back from a visit (who represented it as common usage there): Massholes.
I don't think I understand the purpose of checking a train passenger's ID. Is there a mechanism somewhere that is comparing Amtrak's passenger manifest to some kind of a "do not train" list in real time? Who is responsible for taking action should someone be listed and attempt boarding? What about the numerous smaller stations that do not have an agent on duty -- a passenger presents himself to the conductor as he is boarding -- can there be any meaningful check?
Sorry, I think it is another case of security theatre.
Is this becoming an episode of "Mystery Security Theatre". Where is the bowling pin?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Dakguy201 I don't think I understand the purpose of checking a train passenger's ID. Is there a mechanism somewhere that is comparing Amtrak's passenger manifest to some kind of a "do not train" list in real time? Who is responsible for taking action should someone be listed and attempt boarding? What about the numerous smaller stations that do not have an agent on duty -- a passenger presents himself to the conductor as he is boarding -- can there be any meaningful check? Sorry, I think it is another case of security theatre.
The squawk is with some state driver's licenses that can be forged by any kid with access to a decent-quality printer. However, there are a whole hatful of other ID documents that the Federales will accept. It only took me about thirty seconds to determine that my MilID and my wife's Green Card are suitable subs. Of course, Nevada also issues compliant driver's licenses.
Good news, since McCarran is right down the road, but the nearest Amtrak stations are a couple of hundred road miles away.
Chuck
Deggesty It may be simply checking to see if every person who has a ticket for that train ison board--if you fail to catch your train, the rest of your trip is voided.
It may be simply checking to see if every person who has a ticket for that train ison board--if you fail to catch your train, the rest of your trip is voided.
I've had my ID checked three times on Amtrak -- at Chicago, Washington and Baltimore. In all three cases it was a portion of the ticket purchase process and not related to boarding. I don't think I was singled out, but rather it was a routine portion of the process. Perhaps someone with insider information will correct me, but I doubt that Amtrak does anything at all with the information supplied.
One of the things that has been made public by this flap over driver's licenses is that just because you are on a "do not fly" list you are not prohibited from flying. It simply means that you probably will be subject to additional screening by the TSA.
Unless/until we develop and publish criteria for being placed on the list and a judicially reviewable process for being removed, I have doubts this whole process should exist. Extending it to train travel strikes me as the mindless extension of bureaucratic empire building that characterizes the TSA.
DeggestyAs I recall, I have had to show my driver's license when boarding a train once--when boarding the Capitol Limited in Washington in 2008 or 2010.
My experience when boarding a LD train and I hand over LD tickets is they want to check the license against the tickets to prevent against ticket fraud with lost or reissued tickets. Has nothing to do with Homeland Security. Airlines did the same for the same reason long before 9-11.
Interestingly, Amtrak does not check for short distance or unreserved trains as perhaps those tickets are lower dollar thresholds? Not sure.
Drivers License vs Passport. Some folks including POTUS and National News Anchors do not have a current Drivers License for reasons of transportation being provided by the government OR in the case of National News Anchors they live in major cities with mass transit and never had a need for a car. It's not just the kids and recent immigrants that do not have Drivers Licenses.
Also, might add that in the last five years Amtrak has changed procedure on some Long Distance Trains in that if you have a ticket and it scans via the onboard scanner the Conductor has (you can be ticketed direct via the Internet and internet Printer now)........your good and they do not ask to see your Drivers License. Only had to show my Drivers License at the station when I am picking up the tickets or checking bags or picking up checked bags.
And many people, who have not had any reason to leave the confines of the USofA do not have a Passport.
Where did this get sidetracked into a discussion of ID for Amtrak trips? The OP pretty clearly is asking about what happens when all the non-passport-holders now have to find alternate methods of transportation that do not require one...
Wizlish Where did this get sidetracked into a discussion of ID for Amtrak trips? The OP pretty clearly is asking about what happens when all the non-passport-holders now have to find alternate methods of transportation that do not require one...
It was a reasonable speculation by Paul M that passports or some other Federally compliant ID might be needed on other forms of transport beyond airplanes, which might include Amtrak.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
BaltACD And many people, who have not had any reason to leave the confines of the USofA do not have a Passport.
Since when has a Passport EVER been a required piece of documentation for travel by any means within the USofA? Passports are documents for International travel.
Assuming this is true, I smell a push for some kind of national I.D. card, which I am NOT in favor of, nor internal passports for traveling from one end of this country to another as some countrys once had or do have.
Dammit, this is The United States of America. I'm concerned with security as much as anyone but there are limits. There are a lot more dangerous areas in the world where people just live with it and get on with their lives as best they can without running screaming to "Mommy" to protect them.
Personally, having to show a passport to get on their planes is something I don't think the airlines are going to put up with, business is tough as it is without putting up another hoop for potential passengers to jump through.
BaltACDSince when has a Passport EVER been a required piece of documentation for travel by any means within the USofA? Passports are documents for International travel.
That was the original intent but they have morphed into alternative documents to the Drivers License as proof of residency or citizenship for..........1. Voting, 2. Employment, 3.Travel within the United States when your Drivers License is not available, etc.
Firelock76 Assuming this is true, I smell a push for some kind of national I.D. card, which I am NOT in favor of, nor internal passports for traveling from one end of this country to another as some countrys once had or do have. Dammit, this is The United States of America. I'm concerned with security as much as anyone but there are limits. There are a lot more dangerous areas in the world where people just live with it and get on with their lives as best they can without running screaming to "Mommy" to protect them. Personally, having to show a passport to get on their planes is something I don't think the airlines are going to put up with, business is tough as it is without putting up another hoop for potential passengers to jump through.
Agree with you on National ID Card and not having internal Identity papers but sorry to say that the Airlines already accept a Passport in lieu of a Drivers License for Domestic Flights.......so they really do not have to change anything. The Modern U.S. Passports have a chip in them now with additional personal information on the chip....that's part of the scan by some ports of entry. Though I have not seen TSA or the Airlines use the chip inside they just glance at the passport and the TSA just holds it under a security light to make sure it is not counterfiet......they do not scan it either. Makes you wonder who is using the chip exactly.
Remember when we were the "land of the free and the home of the brave"?
You know, the days when a warrant was required to monitor your communications, search your person, or seize your property?
It amazes me how easily frightened people give up freedom.
I'm glad I am old. Who knew that Orwell was actually writing prophesy.
I have had my ID checked at only one Amtrak station. Of course it was in DC.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
CMStPnP, I know airlines accept passports as ID's, but at this time it's simply an option, not a requirement, at least as far as US citizens are concerned. It's the requirement angle that's got me and others concerned. I've only used a passport as an ID several times, once for Air Canada flights to Newfoundland and once for a domestic flight during a security scare when I wasn't sure a drivers license would cut it. I haven't used it since, and that's over ten years ago. My passport's expired by now and as I don't care to travel much I'm in no rush to get it renewed.
This is the source of the OP's concern:
Interesting article, however brief.
I suspect TSA's getting a little too big for their britches, and sooner or later there's going to be a smack-down. It may come from congress, it may come from the states pushing back, it may come from the airline business, or possibly other law enforcement agencies expecting a turf war, but I'm sure it's going to come.
Weren't TSA people thrown off Amtrak property several years ago by the chief of Amtrak police, saying in so many words "Get off my turf!"?
Mind you, I don't mean this as a blanket indictment of TSA. The lack of nasty airline incidents since 9/11 says to me they're doing the job they were assigned to do and doing it pretty well, although it's also very possible that hijacking an airliner isn't an option for terrorists, or anyone else for that matter anymore. The days of passengers sitting there like sheep and doing as they're told are over. The bad guys have to come up with something else from now on.
Phoebe Vet This is the source of the OP's concern: http://theweek.com/speedreads/596471/drivers-license-may-not-enough-through-tsa-airport-security-2016
Thanks for posting gthe clarification. Sometimes it helps to actually read the article so one knows what is going on, rather than rushing to a bunch of paranoid conclusions. Drivers licenses that comply with the federal Real ID Act of 2005 are sufficient. This concern is amply covered by the interstate commerce clause of the US Constitution. Waivers were granted several states to give time for them to get onboard. However, time is up for WA, IL, NM and MO, so passports will be needed to fly. Big deal!!
schlimm However, time is up for WA, IL, NM and MO, so passports will be needed to fly. Big deal!!
And how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of residents of those states do not possess a Passport and have no need to possess a Passport?
BaltACD schlimm However, time is up for WA, IL, NM and MO, so passports will be needed to fly. Big deal!! And how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of residents of those states do not possess a Passport and have no need to possess a Passport?
It's a good point, Balt. The solution is for those states (including mine) to get off the pot and update their drivers licenses/personal IDs to meet the federal standard. After all, they have had almost 10 years and the other 46 states seem to have been able to accomplish this. Constitutional challenges are likely to fail.
Actually there are 20 states who don't meet the bizarre standards.
As the federal requirements keep getting more and more bizarre, if people keep making that stupid statement "Oh well, better safe than sorry" the feds will keep tightening their grip.
schlimmSometimes it helps to actually read the article so one knows what is going on, rather than rushing to a bunch of paranoid conclusions.
Even better still is to go to the source material about what's going on; for example:
http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief
Phoebe VetActually there are 20 states who don't meet the bizarre standards.
As I said, only four states are non-compliant and have not received an extension.
schlimmAs I said, only four states are non-compliant and have not received an extension.
LOL and Illinois is one of them. So after January 10, schlimm you can't fly domestically unless you have a passport.
Here are the regulations. I am surprised Texas is not already in compliance, we are usually a law and order state and lead efforts like this......
http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief#
schlimm As I said, only four states are non-compliant and have not received an extension.
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